I dont otherwise lunge my broke horse. I trained him to lunge for the reasons I mentioned previously AND because in my area, it’s a pretty basic skill. If something ever happened to me, I want him to know how to lunge respectfully in case someone decided they wanted to lunge him and for him to not take off with said lunger.
I don’t think anyone is arguing with you. Just because you don’t consider it in your definition of broke, doesn’t mean that other people might.
Ok, hack around the farm is not a trail ride. A trail ride to me is going off property (either in a trailer or adjacent trails) and getting well out of sight of other horses. To me a broke trail horse will go over bridges, cross roads, not spook at traffic, ride alongside roads, open gates, go through water, over deadfall, up and down technical terrain in mountains, has a nose for danger and won’t go into swamp, is alert but calm around bears and other predators, ignores bikes and quads, doesn’t spook at rabbits, squirrels, ducks or herons taking off, and will go out and do all this solo for 3 hours.
As far as longeing, all the horses I know can longe. If they don’t get regular turnout they will blow up on the longe ams under saddle. This isn’t training. It’s management.
All horses will get hot and bouncy if they aren’t managed to reduce the extra energy. However, you might not want to reduce that energy if you want it for competition. That’s the paradox, taking the energy of a hot horse and focusing it on a jump round, not letting it burn up in a buck n run turnout session and a 3 hour trail ride in the mountains.
Re: lunging. It’s not a hard skill to teach and I consider this a basic skill that comes in handy in many contexts. Lameness exams, looking at how a new saddle moves, I lunge in new places or on hills for fitness, I lunged when I sprained my ankle, etc. I also consider a horse knowing verbal commands to be a great tool.
Recently, I’m teaching my 5 year old to ride and while I trust my pony pretty explicitly, she’s not a stick to the rails old timer, she’s a sensitive, polite type who doesn’t like her mouth pulled. So kiddo gets to ride on the line until he has “hands”.
Maybe the question is what are the basic life skills a horse needs to know, and why does the horse need to know them? I suspect most of us are trying to solve the same problems in different ways.
For example: I teach horses to longe so that I can assess soundness from the ground. Someone else might teach their school horse to longe so that he is suitable to be ridden by beginner riders. The school horse probably has to longe “better” or be more physically fit to be on a constant big circle than my horse, but both of them need the basic skill of going in a circle around me without running away or turning in.
I think the basics of trail riding are important life skills. A horse should be able to go away from the barn- step 1- and be taken out of sight of his friends- step 2 of being basic trail broke- in order to do almost any job. Step 3 is that he ought to be able to be ridden outside of the ring, whether that’s on the driveway or in a field, without losing his steering. To me, step 4 is that he should be able to be mounted from either side, from the ground if the rider is fit to do it or from a funny-looking object like a trailer bumper, which is useful both for trail horses and for riders who break their feet and can’t mount from the left. I don’t expect every single horse to be OK crossing a river 5 miles from home with no friends to help them, but the basics of “crossing water” are useful when there is a puddle in between the barn and the field and the horse needs to go out or come in.
Being really trail broke is an evolution on those skills, but I think most horses who can go away from their friends, out of a confined area, and put their feet in water can then go learn how to step over logs and cope with deer because you’ve already taught them about new places to put their feet and new things they might see.
I think there are a few basic things we can (mostly, we are horsepeople, after all!) agree on when we think about the term “broke.” But so much of how we view it goes into what we expect from our own horses, as others have pointed out.
My older horse is an idiot on the longeline. He can do it, but for some reason of his own he has never been happy longeing, and since he is in his early teens at this point, I feel like he never will be. I’m ok with that! He also hates nature, but over the years he has become much better about going on hacks and even trail rides. Too long in the woods, though, and he starts getting angry and does things like piaffe up steep hills, rear, and decide everything is scary and he should run away. Do I care about this, other than in the moment when he is rearing while going up a hill? No, because he’s a jumper and he is EXCELLENT at his job. He’s gotten better at all of this but he is who he is, and I didn’t buy him to do trail rides.
He stands where I put him, he will tie all day long to the trailer (as long as he has a big net of alfalfa, otherwise he houdinis himself to freedom and will go find grass), he loads himself into the trailer, and I can put anyone on him and he will happily shlep them around on the buckle. So, is my 14 year old jumper not broke because he hates trail rides and longeing? More importantly, does it make him unsafe or unusable for his daily job? Nope, not at all.
My new younger guy, also a jumper, is a spooky dingbat. I can and do take him on forced marches around our farm, and he’s been on lots of adventures that he’s handled pretty well (there was the incident at the outing where he broke off the trailer so he could flee from the evil fly spray I was putting on his legs, but we won’t talk about that). He’s still a bit green in his training, but other than the spooky dingbat part, he’s been fantastic, has learned to stay where I put him (I untack both of them in the aisle and can tell them “stand” and they won’t move), ties to the trailer (um, usually), and is learning to self-load onto the trailer. I don’t put anyone but my trainer on him (because of the S.D. situation), but he is an unbelievably scopey and careful jumper and since that is his daily job, I’m pretty happy with him. I actually don’t know if he longes. Probably, he came with a very good foundation, but I don’t know and don’t really care how well he does it. He does what I need him to, and I’m adding more buttons and more breadth to his capabilities all the time. So, like my other guy, we are good.
I don’t have a big laundry list of things I require in a horse past the basic idea that it isn’t rank or untrainable, and really just want my guys to be safe on the ground for me and other people, and to be willing, happy, and able to do their jobs. Having said all of that, everyone has different ideas of what equates to broke, but I think it comes back to what we want to do with our horses more so than some sort of rigid set of requirements.
I just read an ad for a “really broke horse” and some of its attributes included that it was taught to lie down on command, you can throw a tarp over him, and he’ll jump up onto the back of a flatbed trailer. A picture included in the ad showed a person standing on the horse’s rump.
Now I have never needed any of my horses to lie down on command, have a tarp thrown on them, or jump onto a flatbed, much less have me stand up on their rump, so this seller’s claim of the horse being “really broke” may or may not be accurate.
It’s all pretty subjective really.
so regarding longeing. My jumper is actually naturally quiet and I never longe him for training or quieting. First time I longed him for the vet to just go over him–I couldn’t make him stop. EMBARRASSING. And he was round pen trained and not even those cues worked. Too much time had passed without reinforcing the cues (cuz he never needed to be round penned). He can longe safely now. . .
When I got my first couple horses as an adult they were grown animals who had already proved reactive and sensitive and had plenty of baggage and quirks. They were available to me very inexpensively or free because of this. I kept them both until they died but I decided when many daily things were a big deal (tying, loading, trailering, solo outings, etc) that every horse I got from that point on I would make up to be mannerly, confident, as non reactive as possible and respectful so I could have stress free enjoyment with them. I have brought along several young animals and while they all have had different personalities and sensitivities they all learned to be respectful and mannerly on a basic level. Perhaps in our little corner of horses the emphasis has really become about showing and riding (as shown in the broke person thread) and less about the overall experience of owning and being around horses. With fewer DIYers maybe people don’t care as much about manners because the pros and the grooms deal with the animals most of the time. Yes, manners and respect matters to me because often I travel alone with my animals and they need to be good. I also want them to be easy to place should something ever happen to me and I can no longer ride. I guess I feel like teaching and enforcing manners, confidence, and basic skills, while time consuming, should be almost universal. Especially for young horses. Maybe it is, maybe it’s not. And I’m not talking about the horse with no turnout who is high as a kite because it’s not been worked in a week. Or the one on stall rest for injury. There are always exceptions to the norm and a brain is influenced by personality/athleticism etc but a solid foundation never hurt. In my experience good manners also translates to respect for a rider under saddle. And yes, good pros install good foundations but it takes far more than 30-60 days to develop an animal and everyone knows a horse can learn bad things as easily as good ones–the education must always be enforced by everyone who interacts with them.
This is the only quality I don’t agree with. I have had several very-well “broken” horses that just weren’t trail horses. Especially after one stepped on a ground bee nest, one had a pheasant fly right into his neck, and another had a deer jump out of the brush in front of her that was close enough to touch.
A broke horse can be mounted. The rest is called training.
I actually agree with this, in a sense. “Broke” vs “fancy broke” vs “trained”. And they all mean different things depending on what you(g) do with your horses.
Yes. There are wonderful safe horses that know very little but stop start and turn reliably. And there are wonderful performance horses that have amazing ability and “buttons” (hate that word) bit are too big moving , too hot, too finetuned, for the average ammie. And will get fussy or spooky with a rider that’s not skilled enough to communicate clearly.
My point originally about broke was not about beginner proof or bombproof. It was about basic obedience, manners and respect. Basic skills like willingly loading or standing tied safely when asked. This has nothing to do with being an ammy horse or not. Plenty of horses are super hot under saddle and can really only be ridden by a pro but have excellent manners and life skills. One does not negate the other.
I’ve put a little more thought into this terminology on my drive home.
I think “broke”, to me means “you can put a saddle and bridle on, swing a leg over, and the gas pedal, brakes, and steering are reliably there”. I would never assume anything about ground manners, life skills, or training on a horse described as “broke”.
It’s really not a word I see used much in my current circles, outside of describing a horse that has been saddled and ridden (“backed” being equivalent). This is probably because it means something different to everyone.
I enjoyed this post, I agree with it, and all my riding horses fit this description. They are all TBs; some off the track, some homebreds that I started myself. They are all safe, quiet, thoughtful, and respectful.
They all lead, longe, longline, tie, load, clip, and stand for the farrier. They all hack out. They go off property, with maturity as appropriate for age (I don’t expect the 2yo/3yos to be perfect, but they are on their way to being so).
I will take a lot of hate for this, but I start mine at 20-24 months (some are destined for the track, after all). I prepped two for the 2yo TB sales this spring; they tack up, load on the trailer, hauled 5 minutes down the road to the track, unload, I got on them from an upturned bucket, and off they went to work. When the track is too wet, I ride down the road (45-50mph main hwy) to a neighboring property to gallop on turf. They got passed by dump trucks, semis, and horse trailers. They walk home on the buckle.
I put about 10 rides on a 2yo filly in May, and then she had a little vacation. I got on her again today… no lunging first, just tack up, lead to the mounting block, get on and go. I just hacked around the farm and trotted a couple circles, but she was quiet, obedient, and “broke.”
I have a lot of faith in my young horses. Of course they may have young silly moments, but it is rare. First of all…I start with a parents that have good brains, and as a result the offspring do too. Then I give them an excellent foundation and start them well; they understand expectations, they are treated fairly and with consideration… they trust me and I reward them well for their participation efforts. As a result, they come out every day with a bright attitude, ready and willing to work in whatever way I ask. It starts working with them as foals to lead and have their feet handled, and later as weanlings and yearlings to load, stand tied and cross-tied.
My older, experienced show horses (including my stallion) are quiet, obedient, kind and safe. They jump 4ft, gallop fast, and are well-trained on the flat…AND they hack down the road, go trail riding through the woods, or give lessons to a novice level student.
It’s totally fine if others make allowances for what their horses can’t do, and not all horses need “every skill”… but my own horses will be well-rounded, safe, and fun in a variety of activities and I won’t make excuses for poor behavior (I’ll improve it).
I wasn’t looking for a youngster, but my criteria for broke at that time was I could hop on without much nonsense. When I got Charlie as a 3 YO, he was what I would describe as broke to drive and green broke to ride. Like @fivestrideline described, he would willingly have a rider on his back, basic steering, gas, and brakes but that was about it. Had been trail ridden lightly by his previous owners granddaughter. I think that boils it down pretty well for me. Driving, he had some miles, road/traffic safe, start, stop, steering, and voice commands; obviously fine with carts/carriages and other horses attached to them. That all translated under saddle but we had to make the connections first.
Anything else is icing on the cake. I think you will pay a lot more for a horse as OP describes than this definition of broke.
Things may have changed over the years (sigh, lots of years) but when I started out there was often a considerable difference in attitude about ground manners between disciplines. Many of the Ammys and teens who wanted to jump didnt care if they had to wrestle their horse into submission to fly spray or pick hooves. A lot was excused with “he’s just so sensitive!” and “Well, he is a TB!” Those involved in the Western disciplines were more demanding that the horse behave on the ground (sometimes to a fault) Back then I didnt know about dressage and “natural horsemanship” hadnt made a splash yet.
I do recall one huntseat rider asking for help from the older Western trainer at the barn. He watched her struggle to lead, tack up and mount her horse. Once under saddle he performed fairly well, but she was frustrated dealing with him on the ground. She asked the trainer, looking for a magic cure, what the problem was. He replied, “The horse aint broke!”
This is one of the things that makes discussion forums frustrating. You say something and before you know it, people are arguing with you over things you never said and repeating things that you already said, like they’re ideas you’ve never heard before.
It’s like in conversations where people are so busy thinking about what they’re going to say next that they only really hear about half of what you say.
Why do you think you need to tell me that some people might have “lunges quietly and obediently” in their definition of broke? Did you miss my original post where I noted that the OP’s definition of broke, which included lunging, may be her personal definition, but it isn’t a universal definition because other people may have different criteria for “broke?”
So the recent thread about the tragic scenario in Aiken with the horse tied with a rope halter and left to die because he would not load highlights my observation about “broke” horses. The death was not the fault of the animal but rather the trainer who could not load him and then left him in a situation where he was not ok. Substitute “educated”, “obedient”, “trained”, “mannerly” or whatever you want but my point is not that the horse is a high level grand prix horse or an A/O hunter necessarily (although it could be) or an ammy ride or a pro ride but that it meets a basic criteria of manners and expectations that make it easy to work with and live with. IMO if started correctly and slowly with appropriate levels of attention ALL horses could meet this benchmark. It is a good discussion to have–I am always trying to improve my horses and my approach to produce the best animal possible that I can enjoy. I reap the rewards of my efforts but perhaps we all should care about properly produced animals, as supply meets demand in the marketplace. @EventerAJ seems to have a good program–thank you for sharing. I work on my horsemanship daily. This aspect of horse ownership and riding is often neglected, especially in the busy world of showing and competition we all get caught up in. We are quick to criticize but often we don’t grow our own knowledge or experience. I have made many mistakes in many ways with horses. Each time I try to learn how to do better. To make them better and me better. Still, after 40 plus years, I am still learning.
Broke = can catch it, get it ready, ride in your choice of activity at your chosen venue, and your shoer and vet can get their work done without drama.
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