Types of vet exams that can involve lunging, off the top of my head - PPE, lameness evaluation, airway evaluation, neuro evaluation, cardio evaluation, also often used for the exercise portion prior to taking blood for conditions like RER. I think if you are going to put skills on the list that include standing well for the farrier, knowing how to be tied in at least some types of tying, then I think a horse also needs to know how to lunge even if it is not a commonly used skill based on that horse and owner’s day-to-day. When it is needed, it can be very important for the wellbeing of the horse and its caretakers for the horse to be able to lunge under control and paying attention.
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And if that’s all the horse knows and you skip the training part, it’s the rider who gets broke!
Thelwell had a rather delightful cartoon on that subject.
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The argument that “Well, you can have your interpretation of a broke horse, and I’ll have mine. And no horse of mine needs to know X or Y” exactly misses the point. The point is that your horse might some day be handled by someone other than you. If he doesn’t meet expectations, he gets in trouble. It’s not doing a horse a favor to keep him ignorant, no matter how much you think you are helping him by not making him do things while he’s in your care.
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That’s why I think it’s helpful to think of this as equine life skills, not an end state of “being broke.” We all agree that a horse should be pleasant and mannerly to handle, and whether that means my grandma can walk the horse to the field or the horse turns itself out and shuts the gate behind it, the building blocks of walking politely at your shoulder without haring off to eat grass or dragging you and waiting at the gate provide the same foundation towards that end goal. The building blocks for trail skills are the same as being a polite riding horse, just stacked in different ways. So horses who can go away from the barn and hack in an open space without their friends can learn, with time and scaffolded training, to be sensible on trails. And even if someone never stacks those blocks to take the horse out in the woods, they can still stack the same blocks to take it to a horse show. Or ride it on a different area of the property. Or just walk it out to a new field without it losing its mind.
My horse doesn’t cross tie (he’s losing his vision with age, and will back up if startled, so this is a safety issue.) He’s not unbroke. Instead I taught him to ground tie. Life skill: stand where you’re put. Demonstration of life skill: variable. Outcome: doesn’t go wandering into the feed room while I’m not watching him.
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THIS. EventerAJ I cannot ‘love’ this post enough. You are the kind of person who’s horse I want when I’m shopping.
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THANK YOU. This thread is getting derailed by people not acknowledging this.
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My heart goes out to your dude who is losing his vision!
I agree that there is more than one way to skin the cat of, for example, keeping a horse in one spot. You did well to find a work-around that works for him. (And BTW, I kinda hate cross-ties. I think there are kinder ways to have a flight animal stay still than to tie him by both sides of his head, but that’s a different rantTopic, LOL). For a special needs horse, I’d find and teach some work-around all day. And this is a horse that people should be informed about. He’s got an unusual limit that might not be obvious and that he can’t work around.
As to lunging, which I think was the offending life skill. I think they should know how if only for the purpose of being able to do that in a lameness exam.
A couple of examples where good lunging and bad lunging came into play.
The good:
I had a mare who had hurt herself, got a surgical fix, and a prescription for a long, rather-exacting rehab. Previous to that, I had been taught by a dressage pro that I needed to up my game from just hunter-like, “let them cruise around out there at the end of the line.” I had taught this mare how to stay between my line-hand and whip-hand exactly and to be quite obedient and precise, just as I’d want under saddle.
So it comes time to do a recheck of her soundness when I had been told to tack walk and trot in straight lines only. Vet wants to see her briefly on the lunge. Mare is at their clinic and a new place, plus she’s a sensitive, hot thing by nature. Vet makes it clear that she wants to see exactly the gaits she wants, that anything else is either a waste of time or could hurt the healing injury.
She asked if I wanted to give the horse to a tech to get the job done right. But after we talked, I told her I could produce that reliable, obedient work from the mare, and I did. My point is that this was a rare-ish, high-stakes situation where a horse needed excellent lunging skills. And, again, this mare knew a better form of lunging than I had known to teach a horse when I was younger.
The bad:
A backyard Parelli-ed horse could not be lunged for a lameness exam by their “sometimes wrong, never uncertain” owner at all because the horse did nothing but stop and face his handler. I mean owner Could. Not. get it done. I could lunge that horse, with some timing and skill. But it would have taken all that skill and luck to also just get the horse to go around out there in a way that he was relaxed, left alone by me and using his body naturally enough to let the vet see his gait. Thus, the hole that the owner had dug for the horse screwed her in this situation.
I know that high-end Natural Horsemanship guys don’t teach lunging, per se. They don’t do that with their colts. But I think a good one could get one of his/her horses to lunge for a lameness exam. Like you said, Renn, horses should be given All The Life Skills which, like blocks, can be stacked in different ways. And you never know when some situation means you might need to build something unusual.
But I think folks should be open-minded to the idea that there might be some Life Skill out there that their horse might need some day, even though they don’t intend to need it/use it. I think ponying is like this (some day, you might have to catch and retrieve a loose horse, on horseback. Field hunters do this plenty). A horse who has been taught to hobble or be led by his feet has at least some experience with stopping and waiting if, as has happened to me, he gets a foot stuck in some wire he didn’t see.
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For me, the term “solid citizen” encompasses the life skills and manners discussed by many above. I think of that core knowledge as insurance for both people (keeps us in the saddle and out of the emergency room) and horse (maintains/enhances their value and utility, and thus reduces their chances of winding up in abusive/kill pen hands). A reliable horse who is a joy to be around has a lot more options than the jerk-faced drama llama who can jump 1.40. (Not that Jerky McJerkface isn’t extremely valuable in the moment. But, like our high school boyfriends, he won’t be that athletic and eye-catching forever. And once the body goes, all you’ve got left is personality…)
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That’s a great example of an advanced life skill. Building block to be ponied: be led side by side with another horse, at the same gait and pace, without playing bitey-face. Building blocks to be a pony horse: steer off the leg or neck rein, keep most of your feelings inside of you.
I taught my horse to be a pony horse to help rehab my sister’s horses, who each did a suspensory at different times, and who got great benefit from having a cynical older horse side-eye shame them into not doing whatever they were thinking about doing.
And thank you, @mvp, for your commiseration on my elder statesman’s vision. It’s been a gradual process, and so we’ve been able to progressively structure his life to keep everyone safe and comfortable. And, on topic, the whole reason we’ve been able to adjust so many things around his changing capabilities is that he has excellent manners, or many life skills, and so he remains easy for anyone to handle. There are only two things that barn staff need to do differently with him, and his manners are such that they are easy changes to accommodate. He can meet all of the same objectives through different means. Which is another reason to teach your horse good citizenship in many different areas… you never know how you’ll end up using them as your and the horse’s lives change.
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I agree with this as well. A horse labeled as a solid citizen I would expect to be totally well rounded and is a step or two above “broke” as definitions go in my head.
My gelding falls into this category and it does surprise me the amount of times people recognize he’s down for whatever. We’ve gotten a LOT of “I need to get a Charlie for myself” in the 3 years I’ve had him. We ride (indoor/outdoor/trails/obstacles), knows what “go to the block” (mounting block) means, drive (road/traffic safe), swim, are learning some tricks, have been competitive when showing. We haul regularly solo for trail riding. He is very friendly and respectful of people and kids. Clipping? Whatever. Stand for an hour for a mane trim? Ok. Take my temp every hour because of vaccine reactions? Sure.
By all definitions, the people who have commented have broke and successful in their space horses, but maybe not as solid of citizens with certain quirks. I really lucked out with such a good minded guy and we have all sorts of fun with very few limitations or worries.
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