what is basic horse turnout/rider turnout for first timers?

[QUOTE=eidyn;7314027]
I know you said her mane is pulled, but can you do a running braid, in theory, at your dressage level, given her breed? I’ve seen many hair-challenged arabs with a running braid and it looked stellar because it lay right flat with the thin hair and your could really appreciate the plait.[/QUOTE]

I could let it grow out again, I suppose, but it is so much more uniform when it’s pulled and I definitely prefer button braids on a dressage horse!

https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/995515_10151713198640028_1374728562_n.jpg

As for the martingales, it is my understanding that standing martingales are less restrictive when properly fitted and the horse doesn’t toss their head around like mad. Running martingales interfere with the mouth too much or rein aids so the horse, if being silly, is just fighting with themselves. Standing martingales actually stop the behaviour whilst runnings just change the way the pressure is exerted on their mouth from the bit. A standing martingale also indicates that your horse has a softer, more responsive mouth as you don’t get action on the bit, just the nose.

As I am a curious person, I try and count the number of ‘standing’ versus ‘running’ martingales to be seen in Horse & Hound photos in the hunt reports. Overwhelmingly running. Yes, can see the point of a standing one but most horses are deemed safer from rider interference with a running one.

Which has little to do with the question posed by the OP

[QUOTE=melody1;7314271]
I could let it grow out again, I suppose, but it is so much more uniform when it’s pulled and I definitely prefer button braids on a dressage horse!

https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/995515_10151713198640028_1374728562_n.jpg[/QUOTE]

Omg she 's so gorgeous, who cares whether she goes bald!

[QUOTE=Willesdon;7314679]
As I am a curious person, I try and count the number of ‘standing’ versus ‘running’ martingales to be seen in Horse & Hound photos in the hunt reports. Overwhelmingly running. Yes, can see the point of a standing one but most horses are deemed safer from rider interference with a running one.

Which has little to do with the question posed by the OP[/QUOTE]

That’s interesting. I don’t read H&H, but they must be missing my hunts! Standing is definitely the norm in my home hunt as well as all the joints and the hunt trials, but I really couldn’t care less. If the horse goes in a running, don’t switch for a hunt. Ultimately, OP and other new hunters - go in your usual tack!

[QUOTE=SLW;7314186]
That is so cool in it’s own way! Is that unique to Ireland or do the hunts in England follow the same protocol?

My hunting horse is a Connemara and she enough mane to be braided twice weekly for a full season and she still would not have a thin mane in the spring. :)[/QUOTE]

There seems to be inconsistencies in a few tack issues and each hunt decides what is allowed clothing-wise, but I would be quite sure that regular UK hunts are just as put-together. There are always pony club ones and tourist ones and we-just-like-to-gallop-and-jump-over-big-things hunts which would be more suited for people less interested in dressing to the nines every week.

Eidyn, I like the long hair tucked in the jacket! My hair is ridiculously long (for a middle-aged broad) and I usually braid it, wrap it in a tight knot and cover it with a hair net. But the knot is heavy and it would be nice to have an acceptable alternate way to manage it :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=Hinderella;7314893]
Eidyn, I like the long hair tucked in the jacket! My hair is ridiculously long (for a middle-aged broad) and I usually braid it, wrap it in a tight knot and cover it with a hair net. But the knot is heavy and it would be nice to have an acceptable alternate way to manage it :)[/QUOTE]

It’s soooo much easier!! It started during my pony class showing days, and I just didn’t see why I couldn’t do it at the hunt too. My hair can be squashed into a hairnet under my helmet now, but for years i did the braid tucked in the jacket. No more headaches, more freedom of your neck and head, no more running out of gel and hairspray every week because between ballet and riding you were never not in a bun. And your hair still looks decent for the pub post-hunt!

I hunted for a month in Ireland, with several different hunts, and never once saw a plaited horse! Including the huntsman’s horse. North Tipperary and Ormond mainly.

[QUOTE=eidyn;7312594]
Also, it’s my understanding that this is a particularly Irish/British thing. We just hating running martingales. They would be wrong here, but if your horse needs one then please be safe and use it![/QUOTE]

Well, that is the first time I have EVER heard a UK/IRE hunter say that. Having hunted in Ireland (and having an Irish huntsman & whip here), the one thing they are 99.9% vehemently against except on the rare horse is a standing martingale. If you go down in an Irish ditch, and have a standing on, the horse will not be able to fully use themselves to get out, whereas they could with a running. Certainly the 40 Irish & UK side saddle ladies I was out with in Ireland last year all had a running martingale on.

I also have an H&H subscription, and maybe once a year see a standing show up in pictures. Which hunt specifically are you with?

Okay then. It seems standing vs running for hunting is a lively topic of discussion. I prefer no martingale, and I wouldn’t put any horse of mine in one – which has nothing to do with whether they are useful. Of course they are and if you want to use one because you need a little more control, please do and please use the type you are more comfortable with. I’ve been hunting since I was 8 (16 years), and standing has certainly been the standard on horses beside me on the hunt, and ‘usual tack’ for horses I have ridden when my own was laid off or I was training a hunt horse for sale. This means hundreds of horses, in plaits, with well dressed riders, and if using a martingale, most likely it was a standing. So all of this is because when asked what the proper tack and outfit was for a hunt, I repeated exactly what it says in my code of conduct. I’m not a standing martingale salesperson. I called up the Secretary, and from my hunt’s standpoint, a standing martingale is correct turnout for hunting, mostly for the sake of the rider who otherwise, once horse hit field, would have a lunatic to control. Horses are surprises. A horse with his head between his knees or in your face, nose higher than his ears is not a horse that can be controlled. You can also much easier throw your reins to someone in an emergency or when you have to pony a horse. Tough to do with a running. I personally like that it acts on the nose when you’re in the mouth enough in the hunt field, especially with a head tosser.

In terms of safety, the only way a horse is getting tangled up in one is if it’s a double-jointed rhythmic gymnast or if it was improperly fitted. There has to be something wrong with that horse if it can get it’s leg up there. I have seen photos of horses jumping 1.20+ stone walls and heavy brush in standings, with great bascule, well adjusted, with no question that it would land properly. I swear that a standing martingale properly adjusted will do what it is intended to do and not interfere with a horse’s jump. If the horse is behaving, it isn’t used at all. The only problem with standings is when swimming in really deep water or going through a bog, or something beyond the scope of normal riding; then unhook it. Those used with a breastplate are often on little snaps. How many times does your horse have to swim a river compared to the times it throws its head or does something stupid before you can gain control? Think of all the times you jump hog holes, blind ditches, drop fences, slip on a hill, go up/down a really steep creek. Then all those standing martingale users would have dead horses. And that’s just not happening.

I’ve also hunted in Virginia in America and there were certainly many standing martingale users at a traditionally decked out formal hunt. Perhaps not the side saddle riders. I’m not informed on martingale use with side saddles. But standing martingales all the same.

[QUOTE=eidyn;7315933]
I’ve also hunted in Virginia in America and there were certainly many standing martingale users at a traditionally decked out formal hunt. Perhaps not the side saddle riders. I’m not informed on martingale use with side saddles. But standing martingales all the same.[/QUOTE]

Undoubtedly - and no one on this thread has disputed - standing martingales are much more common than runnings in the USA, but we do not have the drains that you do over there. That was why I inquired (and continue to do so) as to who exactly you hunt with in Ireland, as in my personal experience standings are highly frowned upon in the UK/IRE, for the reason(s) I previously stated, except for the rare horse that must go in one, and I was very interested to know where specifically in IRE the opposite was true.

The Middleburg huntsman (who is Irish) much prefers a standing martingale. Just wondered if he was the one referred to above.

The problem with standing, IMHO, is that they are too rarely correctly fitted. Look at the number of H/J horses where the standing martingale is used to hold them in a shape or to balance the horse over a jump as the rider chucks the reins away around its ears. That is incorrect use. Dangerous in the hunting field where it is necessary to be ready for the unexpected at all time.

Riding on my particular hobby horse, look at any bridle on any horse and see how very few of them are correctly fitted. Add a martingale, of any kind, and there is more opportunity to fit the tack incorrectly. I regularly see running martingales so tight they effectively act as a standing one - but at the expense of the poor horse’s mouth.

Here in the UK standing martingales are seen as severe, old-fashioned, odd and they don’t fit into the world of racing, hunting, show jumping, eventing… so the ammy rider is not going to use one. An earlier point about a standing martingale being kind to a well-trained horse is a good one.

Could it be that US hunting is different, in the depth of going and the amount/type of jumping etc, so requires different tack?

While I was hunting in the UK, I don’t believe I ever saw anyone use a standing martingale during hunting or any other riding.

A friend of mine is enjoying time in Ireland, and took wonderful shots of South Union Hunt. I hope these photos are viewable/public:

https://www.facebook.com/mcclurejc/media_set?set=a.10101918046306780.1073741858.15936274&type=3

or here from their opening day:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mcclurejenniferc/sets/72157637496503313/

Nearly every single rider is using a running martingale. (some really awesome pictures, and worth checking out regardless of the martingale debate!!)

[QUOTE=otterhound;7316521]
The Middleburg huntsman (who is Irish) much prefers a standing martingale. Just wondered if he was the one referred to above.[/QUOTE]

I was referring to Middleburg’s huntsman, yes. And I would dispute that he prefers a standing, as I see him out hunting twice a week, and if he outfits his horse (so a personal or hunt-owned/kennel horse), it either wears just a breastplate, or has a running attachment. If he borrows one of our whip’s horses, who arrives tacked up by her already, it has a plain martingale or standing attachment (as that is what she prefers). I’ve personally never seen him chose to put a standing on one of the kennel horses – that isn’t to say he hasn’t, just that I’ve not seen him do so.

Some pics:

His tack on the staff horses:
http://www.middleburgphoto.com/HorseandHound/Middleburg-Hunt/MiddleburgHUnt-Windfields/i-rTzfZSz/0/L/MH.Thanksgiving-4188-L.jpg

http://www.middleburgphoto.com/HorseandHound/Middleburg-Hunt/Middleburg-Hunt-Open-Meet-2013/i-bMCVHHK/0/L/_DSC0678-L.jpg

http://www.middleburgphoto.com/HorseandHound/Middleburg-Hunt/Middleburg-Hunt-Fox-Hole-2013/i-sqTtpcp/0/L/MH.Foxhole%20%26%20PH.Trinty-7550-L.jpg

http://www.middleburgphoto.com/HorseandHound/Middleburg-Hunt/Middleburg-Hunt-Keswick-2012/i-4cvfbSV/0/L/MH.Goodstone.Joint-7156-L.jpg

http://www.middleburgphoto.com/HorseandHound/Middleburg-Hunt/Middleburg-Hunt-Utopia-2012/i-6WNVnzR/0/L/_DSC3808-L.jpg

http://www.middleburgphoto.com/HorseandHound/Middleburg-Hunt/Middleburg-Hunt-Christmas2012/i-r2DTx37/0/L/MH.Xmas-6467-L.jpg

http://www.middleburgphoto.com/HorseandHound/Middleburg-Hunt/Middleburg-Hunt-Glenwood/i-k9C56C2/1/L/_KLM1973-L.jpg

On one of the whip’s borrowed horses:

http://www.middleburgphoto.com/HorseandHound/Middleburg-Hunt/Middleburg-Hunt-CreekHill/i-R5cWf2r/0/L/_DSC2614-L.jpg

http://www.middleburgphoto.com/HorseandHound/Middleburg-Hunt/Middleburg-Hunt-Goodstone-11/i-9c7sss9/0/L/MH.Goodstone-1201-L.jpg

http://www.middleburgphoto.com/HorseandHound/Middleburg-Hunt/Middleburg-Hunt-Foxcroft-9-7/i-MdQtHfb/0/L/_DSC5681-L.jpg

Irregardless of the above, I have not once said that standings are not much more common in the USA than runnings - we have, on the whole, far different terrain! Although, when we literally swam across Goose Creek on Dec. 7th, I was very, very glad that neither Mr. SSR nor I had a martingale on, as the horses needed complete use of their neck to navigate it! I personally have used a standing much more frequently than a running if I have to use a martingale. However, I had never heard an UK/IRE hunter say that runnings were in effect “not done”, and standings were “de rigeur,” hence my asking which specific hunt was being referred to by eidyn.

As I and other posters have stated previously on this thread (and others), standing martingales are very rarely seen in the UK/IRE, and which was corroborated by my, and their, own experience hunting and riding overseas. So finding out that there are some hunts in IRE that have the opposite opinion is quite interesting, and I am sure I am not alone in wanting to know which hunt(s) those are.

Love the pictures!

He is a friend of ours and we had this conversation about martingales when he stayed here with us this year. He said he much prefers a well-fitted standing.

[QUOTE=otterhound;7317310]
He is a friend of ours and we had this conversation about martingales when he stayed here with us this year. He said he much prefers a well-fitted standing.[/QUOTE]

Very interesting, as that is not his common practice, nor what he had indicated previously. I will be sure to ask him, and our Irish whip, this Saturday at the hunt breakfast about it. :slight_smile:

Great photos! I can’t speak to the martingale debate as neither of mine need one, but I really enjoyed looking at all of the photos on here. I can’t wait to hunt again next year!

Here’s a photo of my mare and my gelding out together this year. Don’t mind my look of concentration and ultimate focus!

https://im1.shutterfly.com/procgtaserv/47a3ce07b3127cce98549334833d00000035100QbsXDVu2YtY

(Just have to make note of how awesome the 7 y/o OTTB was his second (and first) time hunting…)
https://im1.shutterfly.com/procgtaserv/47a3ce07b3127cce9854939102a800000035100QbsXDVu2YtY

Interesting that both horses in Melody1’s first picture have running martingale stoppers on the reins. Yeah, I know, tack obsessive!