What is it with Frozen Semen Brokers??

Bellfleur · August 12, 2020, 1:57am

Sorry this is clearly a rant however I am feeling so ripped off yet again!

What is it with these people? Not all of them of course!! However I have run into a subset of them that think we should just suck it up. Please keep in mind I have proof via email of all of the following statements. This is not a guess or misunderstanding at all.

Story is I purchase two doses of Florestan Semen from a friend (with the approval of the frozen semen broker no less.) I had a stunning colt last year that a member of the inspection team told me You should absolutely breed this particular mare back to Florestan! His semen is now pretty much gone so when this was offered by a friend I thought ok this was meant to be. Frozen broker states yep storage is all paid up for the entire year so you can leave it here or ship it to your vet. No problem either way! So in November I send the check to have it shipped to my vet. Sounds easy doesn’t it?? I let my vet know to expect it. Same way I have had semen delivered for years with no problems. Even got my first shipment of Florestan from the same broker years ago the exact same way.

OK So I hear nothing from anyone. I assume everything went ok. OK maybe I should have not been so complacent but still both are trusted parties right? This Feb my bookkeeper says Hey where do I put this since the check was never cashed? I say what??? I have duplicate checks so it shows when one is written and one is still out. I then call my vet and he says yes I did get notice from the broker it was on its way up but then it never arrived. He just assumed it would be coming later.

I email the frozen semen broker and ask where my Florestan semen is? Nope, she states she shipped it. I go back to the vet. Are you sure? Can you check. Nope he keeps records of all incoming shipping labels. Checked all frozen in his place. Nothing came for me. So I go back to the broker and say Hey Umm can you send tracking info for this. She says NO:eek: I say what do you mean NO??

She proceeds to let me know she didn’t keep the tracking info. I say what, you are kidding right? She then later in another email proceeds to tell me Oh yeah you sent your own tank for it! I respond with I don’t even own a tank! How would I have done that? Besides who would let frozen semen go with no tracking label? I tell her, look you have to be able to at least provide some sort of ballpark date and which shipper you used. Nope she has no idea even which shipper she used.

I say well if you have no proof you shipped it then you had better go and find it. Nope she says she will just refund my money and I can go and buy new OR she states that I need to go and PAY STORAGE ON THE SEMEN to the tune of 700 Dollars!! She is now charging me for storing semen she supposedly shipped months before. Then she does say on a phone conversation Well I did have an employee that probably disposed of it elsewhere! I am shaking my head at this point.

I email her and tell her I am not paying storage on something that I was told she did not have. Obviously if you are charging storage you should be storing something right? Then she proceeds to tell me I can get a refund for the original purchase price of the semen. Then she proceeds to tell me that yes one of her business partners does have two doses of Florestan left that I can purchase for something like 1600 dollars ADDITIONAL! WTF If my stock broker lost my stock he would replace it at current market value NOT give me my original investment back! Up or Down it would still be however much it was worth that day not what I paid for it! Even insurance companies give you replacement cost or current market value and they are the biggest crooks on the planet!

It got so horrible in the end I just told her to send my money back and gave up with this witch. I cannot believe how these people think they should treat their clients! She then proceeds to inform me that no OTHER frozen semen broker or vet for that matter would EVER REPLACE SEMEN in the same situation. Well for a fact I know a good friend told me someone did lose a dose of Jazz semen and he replaced it including shipping! AND he never charged her storage from when he lost it either. He was apologetic about misplacing it. This broker informed me that she was being NICE by sending me my original investment back! How about it is now spring and I was supposed to have two doses of Florestan to breed my mare to and suddenly had nothing. OK so missed two cycles while waiting for the semen!

I cannot believe that I seem to run into these people who treat the business as if they are doing you a favor!

BTW The last frozen semen broker who sold me the Don Schufro semen that was all bad including the ONE STRAW REPLACEMENT DOSES who commented here that “some mares just do not take with frozen semen”. That mare is expecting her second frozen semen foal one ONE CYCLE USING ONLY ONE DOSE. This year with the Dutch stallion Charmeur!!

YEP IT SURE WASN’T the frozen 8 doses of frozen DS semen that was all bad (no matter the vets - multiple- said they would have better luck with water after looking at the condition of the DS semen!) IT WAS THE MARE WOULD NOT TAKE WITH FROZEN!! Right I can see that now. I would say proof is in the breeding but then I am sure this broker would have some other fairy tale to tell me about what happened to my replacement doses instead of her just shipping me the promised replacement doses! She never even offered to replace my original bad semen. Not even one dose!!!

I gave her last year off since she was so late still following all of the attempts with DS a couple of years ago. Besides I was still recovering from the 18K invested in breeding fees trying repeatedly with DS when BLUE HORS KNEW IT WAS BAD and THEY HAD SENT DOUBLE REPLACEMENT DOSES. I was still trying to get her in foal with the replacement doses. What a joke. Only later found out the replacement doses should have been 3 STRAWS and that the reason they sent replacement doses was the machine was broken that froze the semen using one straw doses!).

The ones the frozen semen broker kept for herself and sent me the old one straw doses and told me they were the REPLACEMENT ones from Blue Hors!! My vet informed me later he spoke with Blue Hors and they told him no those numbers were all old from when the machine was broken!!!

So far in the whole frozen business I have met two people who were reputable at all. It seems unbelievable a German Verband would stand behind someone like this but they are. Oh yeah the broker here is German also and OH yeah related to someone in the head office. What a surprise the only place to buy this semen is through this person!! As far as I am concerned they can keep their Westphalian stallions all to themselves. Obviously, their economy is sooooo way better they do not need my American dollars to purchase semen from them!

I cannot even figure out how one finds the frozen semen brokers that are any good? They always seem so nice when I am first working with them!

Equine_Reproduction · August 21, 2020, 10:41am

Oh boy…I’m not even sure what I can say! Reputation “should” be everything when dealing with a commodity such as frozen semen. There “are” good ones out there and you just need to be selective. When looking for one to work with, post on bulletin boards and ask for private messages from individuals that have used different brokers. You can then, hopefully, sort through who is good and who is bad. Obviously, if everyone has always had a good experience and there have been no problems, you’ll not be able to tell the “what ifs”. So, you want to see how individuals handle the problems that come about.

Personally? We’ve used Judy Yancey and yes, we had problems with one shipment that she dealt with honorably and ethically, so she gets a thumbs up from us. We get quite a bit of semen in from other brokers. We’ll get notification from the mare owner that we are supposed to be receiving semen from X stallion, but other than that, until it arrives, we aren’t typically involved. When the mare owner contacts us about bringing the mare, I’ll check to make sure that it has been received, but unless we’re asked to follow it or send a tank for pick up (we’ve done that for several of our good customers, as well), we have NO idea what is transpiring between the mare owner and the broker. I will usually drop the mare owner a note to let them know it has arrived, as well. So, I guess the take home message here is to follow the semen yourself and be on top of it.

I “will” say that every shipment of frozen that goes out from us, we keep a copy of the shipping/way bill, as well as identification of the batch of semen that was sent (each straw is labeled with a date, lot number, stallion name, etc.) so we KNOW exactly what they should be looking at on the receiving end. Let me tell ya, having that information can be the difference between no one knowing anything, to being able to locate everything easily and efficiently! Every shipment that arrives at our facility is logged in, identified and noted what tank it is stored in. A folder for that specific stallion is also started, if one does not already exist, and the owenr of the frozen semen is identified in that folder, along with any and all other information. With that said, we ONLY store semen that we ourselves have frozen, or for mare owners that we are managing their mares for and are breeding with frozen - we do it for those customers as a courtesy :).

I’m not sure what to tell you or what to suggest. I definitely understand your frustration!

opel · August 21, 2020, 10:42am

I have never been so mad, unbelieving and felt more ripped off than when I dealt with a US source of Florestan semen. I strongly considered doing a small claims lawsuit and flying across the country to attend because I was so livid. I did contact the Langestut Wardendorf and they didn’t even justify my concerns with their American agent with a reply. Horrible and straight up dishonest/lier. I then chose a different stallion and went through someone else with fine results.

Kyzteke · August 21, 2020, 10:42am

First of all, I hope you feel better now :lol:;).

I can understand how frustrated you must feel, but I don’t think you can blame the broker for the state of semen on many stallions.

From my understanding, DS semen has a rep for being sort of “iffy.” I would hope the broker would tell you this.

Some don’t. I’ve talked to all the major brokers in the US and Anne Schmidt (Classic Sporthorses) used to be wonderful about telling me which stallions were getting pregnancies and which weren’t.

These days that is not so common; two of the US brokers maintain ALL their stallions are getting mares pregnant with their frozen…which of course is nonsense. They site Rubinstein I when it’s known far & wide that getting a mare pregnant with his frozen is as likely as winning the lottery.

I mean, if you want to take a chance, great, but I consider info about fertility part of the package when shopping frozen.

Now, I can assume that in some cases the brokers never even hear from the buyers (don’t they sent the breeding certs w/ the semen?); but for instance Judy Yancy, who uses much of the same semen herself, has been helpful in sort of giving me a head’s up on some of the stuff. But I had to ask. She didn’t volunteer the info.

Anne Schmidt used to tell you straight up certain semen was “iffy”.

Sometimes I think it’s best to just contact the stallion owners (like your vet did) and ask how many conceptions they have gotten with frozen. Or maybe that would be a good “sticky thread” for this board…people could post their attempts with certain frozen stallions and the results…

As for the first part, losing the semen, they should have insurance as a business to cover that loss. If they can’t prove they shipped it, they would be liable. Personally, I would nail their butt to the wall, but if they are in another state, then I suspect Small Claims Court would be all you could do, and that might not be worth the hassle.

I would like you to PM me and give me the name of this broker, as I am planning of buying some frozen this spring and anybody who is this sloppy in their record keeping won’t get my business.

imajacres · August 21, 2020, 10:42am

[QUOTE=Bellfleur;5672260]
Sorry this is clearly a rant however I am feeling so ripped off yet again!