What is killing recognized dressage shows?

[gailbyrd]

65% isn’t a hard and fast rule. You can score 70%, 80% at any level and if you don’t want to move up, you don’t have to. And some people have horses that do just fine at the lower levels but struggle to have the proper collection at the higher levels. No problem with that. This isn’t a discussion about what any individual decides to do with their riding and their particular horse. Just a discussion of why entries are down at Nationals and these are possible suggestions as to why.

IMHO, the judging criteria changed in the middle of the season and no one is saying why.

[fordtraktor]

I don’t think the judging criteria changed.

I was scoring consistently all summer at a level that would get me a wild card for Finals, but Regionals were packed and with the huge environment, my horse had a complete meltdown. our scores reflected that. What that told me was that going to Finals would have been a waste of time until my horse has more miles!

[pluvinel]

@gailbyrd

Just a discussion of why entries are down at Nationals and these are possible suggestions as to why.

IMHO, the judging criteria changed in the middle of the season and no one is saying why.

Yes…I fully understand we are discussing entries being down. And I posted that the scoring criteria says 60% is Satisfactory…and by arbitrarily jacking up the score to qualify you cut out potential participants.

I spent the last 10 years of my career doing quality engineering. If you think of performance as a distribution, you can establish a cut-off. By simply shifting where you place that cut-off you truncate that part of your distribution.

The dressage PTB’s focus on starting the scoring with gaits (as discussed above on this thread) has produced a perversion on what should be a test of training.

[gailbyrd]

@fordtraktor

I don’t think the judging criteria changed.

For my freestyles, while technical scores were similar all year, artistic scores were all over the place. Artistic scores will make or break reaching that 65-70% mark.

[enjoytheride]

@lorilu

Tryon is still east.
We tried wellington for regionals. Twice. Didn’t go over well.
Ocala/WEC? Same driving issue and still in the east. Ky is much more central….
Murrietta I am not aware of.
LAEC? Pretty sure they have researched that.

Similar issues were had with Arabian Sport Horse Nationals, which originally rotated and is now fixed at WEC Ohio.

There was a lot of outcry, but people simply did not understand not only the facility requirements, but the total lack of interest in a facility to host a every other year contract. The commission spent a lot of time looking at locations that were unsuitable (need multiple rings going at the same time and the assorted warm ups, the number of stalls) or didn’t even return a phone call/email regarding a bid.

Many of the locations suggested were the same suggested here, but dates and facility features did not match. Yes your local show grounds is 30 minutes from your house. No it doesn’t have the space needed. In addition, people wanted A quality locations but didn’t want to increase their entry fees.

I’ll also note, that some of the loudest people on FB were people who not only hadn’t had a horse qualified for nationals in YEARS but weren’t even current USDF or AHA members.

[sami-joe]

This thread and a cursory look at USDF’s recent 990s has clinched it for me. I’m not giving a dime of my ever less valuable money and ever more valuable time to a 12 million dollar taxpayer subsidized enterprise that barely meets its mandated obligation to share its wealth and run transparently.

While it’s been years since I rode performance-level horses (other people’s mostly), I’d been considering a sanctioned show swan song. I’d thought to move my creaky 64 yo self and my 16 yo TB out of schooling shows, though realistically we’d almost certainly max out at second level.

In a Forums search, I found a similar pre-pandemic thread and some interesting data about the decline in competitors and other topics covered here today. Did you ever make that participation-decline graph, @pluvinel? I agree fully with @MysticOakRanch’s observation back then that, “The grassroots of this sport has been left behind.”

I continue to be grateful for the wealth of expertise here.

[eponacelt]

@xQHDQ

Make it easier to qualify for things and you’ll have more people competing and trying.

Region 1 Finals had Training and First Level tests that ran ALL DAY LONG. A lot of the scores and rides were pretty bad. I don’t think making it easier to qualify is the answer. If it were, some regions would need to have classes that go over multiple days to get all the rides in.

[barnesthenoble]

Meanwhile Region 7 finals, which in 2014 had over 600 entries and 1500 rides running concurrently in 6 rings over four days, ran with 238 entries this year. Yes, some of this can be chalked up to the pandemic, but not all of it. I just did a cursory glance and Training and 1st ride times both spanned an hour (TL) or two (1st) each day. The “big” 1L class was 16 riders. In previous years there were upwards of 40.

Clearly it’s regional but it’s still striking to see how much the sport has shrunk in R7 in just 9 years.

[fordtraktor]

I don’t do freestyles but I think artistic is very hard to level. I remember how much Steffen Peters’ “rave horse” Olympic freestyle went viral, then I saw one of my judges at Regionals decry “loud music.” She clearly just wanted classical.

Music taste is very individual. If that is an issue, maybe switch to regular tests?

I find the qualifying scores very fair for AAs. They go down as the levels go up. If you can’t get the scores, you won’t be competitive anyway. I’d rather not go just for the sake of going…I want to at least be in the ballpark.

[Cowgirl]

Which region is 7? I honestly don’t want it to shrink. I want to participate. I bought a very expensive new horse trailer so that I can travel to shows out of state, if I want. But you know what? Now that I think about that, the idea of traveling two days to show is EXHAUSTING. I’d rather spend the money on a holiday in Italy.

[barnesthenoble]

I don’t want it to shrink, either. A huge portion of my lifetime equestrian goals centered around pursuing my medals and improving my skills in dressage. Not to be competitive, but for personal accomplishment and to make my horses happier and sounder. Those goals feel dead now.

Region 7 is California, Nevada, and Hawaii. It is not a small region, and there are places in it where the concentration of dressage talent is hard to beat in the US outside of FL. But we are still struggling to fill competitions and seeing participation drop.

[Bogey2]

I hated SPeters music so yes would have had a hard time giving him a good artistic score.

[fivestrideline]

I mean… forgive me for not having recently read the sheet for any freestyle, but is the “artistic” score just “did the judge like the music”? I feel like that shouldn’t matter (though it’ll be an unconscious bias), it’s about the creativity and execution. Much like judging a dance competition - you the judge aren’t supposed to score based on your music taste.

I thought it was a very well executed and fun test. And if it increases interest and awareness of horse sports, even better.

[Bogey2]

I agree but the screechy techno pop music would have had me distracted LOL

[dotneko]

@gailbyrd

IMHO, the judging criteria changed in the middle of the season and no one is saying why.

strong text

No one tells ME anything … I dont think judging criteria changed. At least mine didnt.

[fivestrideline]

This is a general comment 100% not aimed at you, Bogey, but the same was said a million times about “loud” coated horses in the hunters. They were called “distracting”, so I see it the same light - ie it shouldn’t matter, the judge should score the round/test in front of them according to the sheet or rulebook.

I’ll admit that it’s a bold choice to go with something from pop culture (though SP’s choices were actually quite “old”, but mainstream enough that plenty of people recognized it), so if you’re going to make people sit up and pay attention you’d better nail it (much like riding a pinto in the rated hunters - you’re going to stand out a bit).

Anyways, mildly off topic ramble over. I hope we see more fun choices like that at this year’s Olympics and in general.

[lorilu]

IMO you really shouldn’t compare required scores for a freestyle to those of a regular test. Freestyle Scores are usually higher, if they have good artistic scores.
If they were raising regular test scores to 70 as a requirement for Nationals I would be incensed and disappointed for the reasons cited.

[Dressurfrau]

Thanks for sharing that. I didn’t realize that a percentage of our fees went to Elite riders. There needs to be another way to fund that rather than the general membership population. We don’t receive any benefit from that but we do receive USEF mailings asking us for donations to support the team.

[lorilu]

Next years proposed budget is posted on USDF.org. You can see where the money goes. I’ll find a direct link in a minute.
https://www.usdf.org/zip/governance/topic.asp?id=143

[netg]

@pluvinel

Yes…I fully understand we are discussing entries being down. And I posted that the scoring criteria says 60% is Satisfactory…and by arbitrarily jacking up the score to qualify you cut out potential participants.

I spent the last 10 years of my career doing quality engineering. If you think of performance as a distribution, you can establish a cut-off. By simply shifting where you place that cut-off you truncate that part of your distribution.

The dressage PTB’s focus on starting the scoring with gaits (as discussed above on this thread) has produced a perversion on what should be a test of training.

I just needed to ditto this.