Though I would love the experience of showing a recognized show, I don’t think I ever will. I just had a one-day “schooling” show this weekend. It was a show that ran in conjunction with the local h/j schooling show at an venue that holds maybe a dozen recognized H/J shows a year. Our local dressage association I think rents a very large arena during these schooling shows, so the footing is FABULOUS and the grounds are super nice. I did two tests and the local association got $70 from me. The farm got another $120.00, which covered two days for a stall and one day for my trailer hook-up. Then I just had to pay my trainer. But I don’t think $190.00 is a big fee for such a nice show. I also volunteer on those Fridays to set the arena up. We do rely on volunteers for most things, but it’s great. They offer year-end high points, but you have to have 8 volunteer hours (or someone has to donate them). I can’t see paying the recognized horse show fees that you all are talking about. Our area hosts two recognized dressage shows, and to be honest, the footing at the schooling show venue is a LOT better.
What would you think about two GMO’s - San Diego Chapter and yours - hosting a show together ?
Perhaps pooling resources would make a difference.
I understand location is an issue - driving down to San Diego - but if the show offered a low haul in fee for the day, would you make the trip ?
While you have a point, there are many areas where there are many well-prepared, well ridden, and extravagant movers. There’s also quite a few well-prepared, poorly ridden, extravagant movers doing well, too. And no, not all warmbloods are extravagant–there are plenty who are barely above average movers, and a scant few that are truly unfortunate movers–but the minimum bar has still been set to above average. A 6 (or even, gasp, a 5 on a bad day) mover was never likely to win, but if the test was accurate and the training good for the horse, it was possible to be rewarded with something in the mid-60s. In my region, at least, that is no longer the case.
It’s also getting harder to find good trainers who are willing to entertain on off breed, again at least in my area. There is a high enough concentration of clients with the budget and aspirations to purchase a dressage-bred warmblood that trainers can be selective. In the most extreme cases, they just say no; but more often, you find trainers who simply…have never had to make it work with a less-than-ideal mover with the WB brain, or just plain don’t want to. They’ll give you lessons, but you end up with permanent roadblocks or fried horses and suggestions to buy something more purpose-built. There’s also a not-insignificant contingent of high-performance professionals who don’t see the point in showing your horse if you’re not trying to win.
I don’t have the answers and it’s possible my region is much worse than others, I don’t know. I do know we have a pretty high concentration of warmblood breeders and affluent riders.
Because I was bored, I just sorted through the Fox Village entries for our recent championships. Of the 238 horses who competed, I counted 18 that were not some version of WB or Iberian. I only counted 4 horses that did not have a breed listed, 2 of which had pedigree information that indicated they were WBs. Of the 18, a couple Arab/WB crosses, some Friesians, an IDSH, two TBs, etc. Of those 18, several were listed as scratches. The majority were <2nd level. Many recorded <62%. While championships are obviously not representative, the expectation is frequently higher in terms of scores, and there’s the possibility of errors in FV, those numbers still have something to say, IMO.
I was hesitant to post since I don’t want this to sound like sour grapes, but I can really identify with what others have been posting. I see 3 main reasons/issues:
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COST - everything is so much more expensive, not just showing, but horse ownership in general. Most people can’t afford it anymore, or have cut back significant.
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related to #1 - The middle to low is getting squeezed out.Dressage is starting to trend to hunter territory. Less DiY on a shoestring backyard horses, more full time training show programs where the trainer controls everything.
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Related to Volunteering - sometimes the Dressage Queen snobbery stereotype show fits. I’ve had equally good and terrible volunteering experiences.
Bad experiences was like being back in middle school. If you are not connected with a big name or popular trainer - you are a peasant. I was tossed a clipboard and told to to the warm up gate by a show manager who didn’t even look at at me. She was too busy gossiping with her friend about a trainer she hated. About 3 hours into the shift I was finally given a walkie talkie. I’m glad I brought my own water and food since none was provided. Unrelated to show management, but rail bird comments were all really snobby, judgemental and elitist.
Basically it wasn’t a community I wanted to be a part of. Its sad since I was new to the region and volunteered to try to get to know the horsey community there. All it did was teach me who I most certainly didn’t want to train or show with. It was awful.
A different show was slightly better run, but much like @barnesthenoble’s experience, I heard the judge say some really rude comments about off-breeds which was really disheartening. Judge was also very demanding and I had to swap out with the teenage girl who was initially test running since the judge yelled at her. The kid didn’t even ride, she was there to support her friend and was not horsey, so of course the kid didn’t know some horse show basics because the show office never trained her properly. Judge yelled at her for running the test papers back to the show office during an ongoing test. Kid got really flustered and left.
A good gauge of someone’s character is how they treat service workers. Some is true for how trainers, judges, show managers treat volunteers.
I think GMOs would have more success if they stopped exclusively targeting riders for volunteers. Try to expand your network to horseless riders and riding school students. Target friends and family of riders. Emphasise training them and setting them up for success and follow through with a reward. Look at volunteering as a way to get people involved in our community.
Region 3 Regionals are at the Florida Horse Park, not WEC. That’s NEXT year, in SEPTEMBER. The facility is hard to beat. I am concerned about the cost. (WEC is in the process of building a “dressage focused” set of arenas etc. which should be done by then. The new area is far to the north of the main facilities. It will be interesting.
I have spoken to the manager of this year’s show, and there are over 500 horses entered.
Regionals have been held alternately in FL and GA (I assume you are talking about the Ga HP). There were two years in a row in GA - because frankly there isnt another facility further north in the Region. Believe me, the Regional Director would LOVE to find another venue further north for our far-flung members. Many declare for other Regions.
And yes, footing is an issue at that facility for many competitors. I have no experience so I ahve no opinion.
Do you think that is wrong?
USDF doesnt run shows. SHow managers, their private companies, and GMOs do.
Facilities and volunteers are hard to find.
Yes, of course you CAN complain to USDF, but… what do you want them to do?
@PonyPenny, I wonder if YOU have volunteered at the show in the past? Did your chapter ask for help from the GMO?
I invite EVERYONE to come to the COnvention this year. One fo the topics of the GMO Roundtables is (of course) Volunteers.
Pretty sure most GMOs I know of DO do this. SOrry about your experiences. I also had a bad volunteering experinece at a recognized show some years ago, but that manager is long gone, and all me experiences since have been fairly good. Again, this is a topic much discussed at the COnvention among GMO representatives. ALl ideas welcome. I’ll be glad to share any ideas if you are not attending or do not ahve a connection with your GMO
Thank you for the kind offer. Its very true that experiences can vary wildly between GMOs. When is the convention? I can certainly PM you some more thoughts. I’m glad this will be a Roundtable conversation, but since this seems to be a pervasive theme, has USDF considered bringing in a consultant (maybe from the non-profit world where they depend heavily on volunteers) to have a keynote on volunteer recruitment for GMO leaders? Just an idea, but it might help to tap into a thought source outside of the equestrian world.
SUper. Send me any ideas you have! meadowlarkhill@earthlink.net I’ll find it in my spam filter which catches everything sent by a stranger…
I really like the idea of getting a non-profit person in as an educator. I’ll present the idea to the GMO COuncil (I’m the Region 3 Rep)
Oh, and the Convention is in Omaha (big anniversary this year and USDF started there), during the last week of November, TH-SUnday
Unfortunately not in the cards, for the same reason I can’t take vacation days to go to a show. But I will happily watch anything that is streamed online.
Prices go up but the show experience goes down. While I understand that different shows have different turn-out so the demographics I’m seeing aren’t necessarily reflected everywhere: when the majority of entrants that I see are riding “lower level” tests (training and first; second and above is largely exclusive to professionals showing their clients’ horses or ambitious jr/young riders) but those same classes get shunted to the side (you get the crappier arena, you get the crappier stabling, if there were 5 judges brought in for the show, you get the one local judge who is known to not be as good).
It is infinitely frustrating. You cannot expect people to pay more and more for a lower quality product. The shows that I see are not as well run as they used to be. And, the “bread and butter” classes for many of my local (but recognized!) shows are given the c-rank amenities, so to speak. I’m not saying that training level classes need (or should expect to have) the grand prix arena/main stage, but when you have an arena that used to host 2 or 3 rings running simultaneously (with a wonderfully large warmup) that is now holding just one arena to “televise” special classes and the 3 rings that used to run in that arena are now relegated to a small space down by a road with a tiny warmup… you’re sacrificing the majority for the glamour. It really does feel like the hunterification of dressage.
Plus getting nickel and dimed everywhere. Prices going up and up and up.
I did okay with my off-breed horse, but I was always careful to ride with extremely qualified judges. Some of them…eh, I was not impressed with - but judges like Gary Rockwell, Lilo Fore, etc, always seemed to treat the thoroughbreds fairly. All else being equal I would lose to a horse with more extravagant gaits, but they were mercilessly attentive to the test and I could beat the bigger movers routinely by having a more diplomatic, more correct test. But again…these are the judges that the show organizers started relegating to a specific set of classes rather than rotating them between all rings, so the chance to ride for them these days seems more and more remote.
It’s frustrating. I do not know if I will ever return to showing.
No, not wrong. But I understand how it can be discouraging. Even more so when people are always so quick to tell you how you can win if you just have good basics and good training as though the people with the 50k+ horse aren’t also more likely to have access to more/better trainers, better facilities, more clinics, better equipment, etc.
I imagine everyone can think of times where they have seen someone work every bit as hard as someone else, perhaps even harder, and still come up short for no reason other than they didn’t have the same resources. That’s just life, and it’s no Hallmark movie. I don’t begrudge the people with more resources just for using the opportunities they have, but I can still have empathy for people who find themselves having to make do with less.
Thanks, I meant FHP for 2023 and WEC for 2024.
I really dont think it is the flashy expensive WBs winning at lower levels that are the problem.
First, I think the tests are a little better on rewarding training than they used to be. More coefficients on transitions and dropping the coefficient on gaits. (I would support dropping the gaits score altogether since it is inherent in all the other scores)
I find no way to take natural talent of the horse out of the equation when judging. Judging just geometry and submission would probably not get you the results you are looking for either. I do notice that some (usually newer) judges are overly forgiving to a big moving horse, but plenty are not.
Just as people show in the hunters when they know that they cant win, but might get a lower ribbon, many used to show in dressage in a similar way (with the bonus of getting the score sheet). And you dont expect your off-type horse in the hunters with lots of knee action who somehow manages to knee hang over a fence to win even if you meet all the fences perfectly.
IMO, the issue is MONEY for those who are not rich but used to get to a recognized show or two. Now if I want todo that there are memberships and registrations before even looking at the entry form!
A conundrum for those of us whose horses are reaching above First Level. Around here, there are rarely entries above that at schooling shows, and the judges may not have judged those tests much or at all (L grads).
I’m curious that so many are complaining about the “flashy, expensive warmbloods winning everything” (whether they deserve it or not). Is that really what’s killing recognized dressage shows? I thought we compete for the scores; we compete against ourselves and the ribbons are just a bonus; we compete to get a judge’s feedback. Right? What’s all this about winning? If you stop competing because you feel as though you can’t win, that’s on you. It’s not what’s killing the dressage shows IMO. It’s the rare AA who wins at the higher levels especially, against the pros. It’s always been like that, it isn’t new.
I think the expense of showing is the main problem. Horses, their upkeep, and show costs are driving the average AA out of the show experience. Not to mention that all that money doesn’t come back to the exhibitors. I know for a fact that most local shows, rated or not, do not make a profit. But it does get annoying to see the big purses at H/J shows and we lowly dressage folk have to be satisfied with a ribbon and a good score from a tough judge. I don’t have the answer.
Because it is a…COMPETITION.
Why compete if you have absolutely no chance in hell to win? I can schedule a “test riding lesson” with an S/I/O judge if I want feedback…and I used to do it as show prep back when I was showing.
The “expense” of showing is a cost/benefit decision. I can go to a show and spend the money if the total experience is overall a pleasant activity. If it isn’t, then I can spend that money in other horse-oriented activities.
I’ll tell you that the H/J exhibitors don’t see that money either 
There’s a FB group I’m in that has had several discussions about jumper nomination fees relative to prize money - unless you’re doing a GP, your prize money (if you get any!) often doesn’t even cover the nomination. There’s prize money on paper, but few are able to pay any chunk of entries or fees with it. Even if you’re pinning high!
The hunter class money is basically a joke outside of the bigger derbies.
Perhaps it would be productive to re-frame this criticism, less as “flashy warmbloods winning everything” so much as I think it is a symptom of another issue that has come up throughout the thread: judges are over-rewarding gaits (and their inherent biases are coming to the forefront). Why should I pay a good deal of money to ride in front of a judge/seek scores from a judge who can’t look past gaits as a determinant of scores? Judging bias/judges’ education I think is a fair thing to bring into this conversation. As I mentioned above: I never had sour grapes losing to a test as well ridden as mine to a better moving horse, but when I rode a more correct test and the difference in scores (my horse was more submissive, we were more correct, we didn’t have any errors in the movements) but we still lost to a horse that had major snafus (pilot error/forgot movement; major submissveness issues, not a well ridden test, what-have-you) but with better gaits because they were flashier, more eyecatching, or otherwise just had more dynamic gaits.
I think this is an issue that requires constant assessment and evaluation. There are absolutely judges who don’t do this, but enough of them do that it is incredibly discouraging. I cannot blame people who hit the point of - why bother?
I guess I just don’t see what other people are seeing. Now, I do show in Florida in the winter and the quality of all the horses is high, but I see relaxation and regularity being rewarded. In the adult amateur 3rd level at regionals last week, at least three of the top 10 were ponies.
It takes money. It’s always going to take money. Even if you have a cheap horse and some natural ability you will need a lot of lessons and those who can teach the training AND the ring craft to score well in a test are expensive.
My scores got significantly better on a pretty average horse when I learned how to set up and complete each movement the way it needed to be in the test. That actually doesn’t have so much to do with the training at home where I would probably never do the movement that way. They’re two different things.
