They need realtime projected scoring sheets in dressage like in bowling.
On the surface, that sounds like a good idea. But bowling is scored on how many pins you knock down. You arenāt being judged subjectively, so it wouldnāt work as well for dressage.
To be honest with ourselves, we need to admit that to the uninitiated, dressage is a very boring spectator sport. I feel the same way about professional golf and car races, but again, those arenāt judged by someone. They are just the competitors doing their thing at the same time and relying on the scores or crossing the finish line first.
I donāt know how to make it more interesting to the non-equestrian public. There has long been a movement to remove the equestrian sports from the Olympics. I donāt know why - if you donāt like a sport, donāt watch it. The Olympics have something for everyone. But as long as the general public perceives equestrian sport as the playground of the wealthy, there will always be a negative bias toward it.
5 Likes
We already HAVE this in dressage - just watch any major competition. The software has existed since it debuted at the World Cup in 1995. Itās just that most show venues donāt have an electronic scoreboard to display the realtime results.
16 Likes
This has been around for years now, but is only utilized at the bigger competitions. Some shows also use the Spectator Judging app - which lets anyone in the crowd score the test alongside the judges and compare their results (and the show publishes the crowd average, although it doesnāt factor into ribbons). You can choose to score every movement like the judge, or give just a few overall impression scores.
11 Likes
That would be MOST informative!
edit: and it would probably be doing a good way to scrutinize judges, (ie: get a list of who you want to show under and who you do not.)
2 Likes
Do we know whether there are enough licensed officials to run recognized dressage shows? Or, maybe more importantly, are there enough in the right areas to grow the sport?
Iāve been following this discussion because I have long been interested in how US dressage judges demonstrate their knowledge and earn their credentials.
This morning, for maybe the hundredth time, I looked at the requirements to become an ārā USEF judge eligible to work at recognized shows. All I can say is, the document itself is daunting. (Heaven forbid you want to work the Arabian circuit ā one of the pages is fully corrupted.)
At face value, the process appears to select for a skill set outside the ability to see, feel, and effectively evaluate and communicate movement qualities in horses and humans. While I realize one objective built into a multi-layer, long term, expensive series of hoop jumping is to measure commitment, I wonder whether the process culls more people than it intends to.
Edited to correct subject-verb agreement problem and too many darned prepositions. Pfft.
4 Likes
I have scribed for candidates from the L program (introduction to judging, a prerequisite for the r and further up), as well as candidates for all the other judge levels (all the way up to S, the highest level national judges).
The program is comprehensive and challenging. And expensive, not only requiring a time commitment for the program itself, but also for apprenticing with judges and training sessions with members of the L Faculty. And there is LOTS of required reading material.
In the L, often half the candidates in a program do not make āgraduate with distinctionā which is the requirement to go on into an r program.
That said, the programs fill quickly and there are always more requests than there are programs.
I have learned SO MUCH about how judges come to the scores - but I know my eye is not good enough.
Other countries keep asking for the program - but its kept to us Americans.
ANyone who has the opportunity should audit the first part of the L (itās mostly biomechanics). Its the only part open to auditors. If you are a good scribe, consider scribing for candidates. Since the programs move around the country to other shows with enough rides at specific levels, the candidates are always looking for good scribes, and they do pay.
Programs are usually organized by local GMOs. A list of upcoming programs is on the USDF website.
13 Likes
Iāve long thought this. The L program training is extremely valuable and everyone who shows should take it whether you want to judge or not. But the jump to small r from L is prohibitively wide. You have to graduate the L program with distinction. You have to have RECENT competition scores from Training through 2nd level. You have to do all that sitting with a judge stuff that you had to do to complete the L program all over again. Then you may be selected to get the training. I have the requisite scores at all the levels required, but they are far from recent. Even though I judge schooling and non rated shows and have for decades, I couldnāt go for my r rating at this point. Itās a bit frustrating.
5 Likes
When I described the small r program to my intrepid and always encouraging sister whose work has included ocean biologist, boat captain, career state marine conservation officer, and 18-wheeler driver, she said: Sounds like theyāre looking for brazillionaires.
I donāt know who else could self-fund the project.
If we really believe that dressage is designed for horsesā well-being, selecting so narrowly for those who measure and describe our horsesā and our own achievement seems wrongheaded.
And āā¦ a bit frustratingā gets my award for understatement of the week.
10 Likes
Does anyone know how judgeās qualification works in other countries?
1 Like
Okay, total outsider observations here ā¦
Watching dressage is boring and repetitive. Thatās why thereās no audience. The most exciting thing is those tall fancy horses with their astonishing floaty gaits. But that seems unrelated to anything one might read about the noble art of dressage.
In general, things that are judged subjectively tend over time to get exaggerated and full of tiny subtleties that only die-hard competitors can see. This makes it harder and harder for people with ordinary nice horses, modest training abilities, and limited pockets to find any place in.
One thing it is really easy for an outsider to see is how tense and unhappy a lot of the horses are. I personally find it painful to observe. Dressage fans donāt seem to notice it very much.
I just watched a clip of an advanced run in Working Equitation. It had everything competitive dressage lacks in terms of excitement and crowd appeal with nothing lost in skill, training, flexibility. In fact it looks like a blast.
I know this is way out of left field but I couldnāt help but think of the contrast. My understanding is that dressage came out of the very same traditions, but just went a whole nother way.
23 Likes
This. Itās like watching the pony ring at an H/J show - Iāll sit there all day but my non-horsey SO would die of boredom 
2 Likes
Similar opinion here. The very technical parts of learning to have your horse straight and balanced, etc. I have found of value. That said, I do think dressage is often boring to watch. But I sure wish there was somewhere nearby that I could play with the Working Eq stuff.
What Iām seeing - due in part to WEC Ocala - is a shrinking of the smaller shows in our area. Those places where footing may be less perfect, where you have to ride in the sun - or rain, and bring your own fans. Where there was a beer and water truck that cruised around the grounds. A few vendors to shop at. These options, though not much cheaper, are more FUN, and interactive. But upper level riders are now fewer, (taking their young and seasoned horses to WEC) and the lower levels will not ultimately be enough to support the costs.
11 Likes
True. And those smaller shows are less expensive and definitely more AA/lower level/young horse friendly. But until the trainers decide to bring their clients to those shows again, (instead bringing them to WEC because itās good for the trailers bottom line,) we will lose those shows.
5 Likes
My friends who are FEI trainers donāt make money when they take clients to Wellington for 5-6 months, a lot of times they lose money but they go so they can show. Itās gotten so expensive the average client they used to take canāt afford to go any longer.
5 Likes
I was mostly talking about local trainers coming to WEC. But I hear you!! People I know here have stopped traveling down to Wellington unless itās something important.
Of course big changes coming to wellington might really change the situation.
2 Likes
or the volunteers and equipment infrastructure to support such an endeavor.
5 Likes
I have dabbled a bit in WE and hope to do more of it in the future. It is fun and it attracts a wider range of participants at least in my area - lot more inclusive and less intimidating to the average rider (at least in my area). Western dressage has a lot of the same advantages - average middle aged woman rider on her probably a quarter horse cross heinz 57 feels like she can fit in skill wise,horse talent wise and financially (and not have to wear white breeches - dressage crowd here has a weird obsession with even first time w/t riders wearing them)
8 Likes
the fact that this thread has been going for 6 years and recognized dressage shows arenāt dead yet says somethingā¦
Dressage is never going to be a mass spectator sport, especially at the lower levels. Never has been, never will be. Doesnāt need to beāin fact, is better off not being adapted to be so (it has been triedāremember the shortened GP test?) The whooping and hollering horse sports with tons of prize money donāt have the greatest record for horse welfare, either.
Dressage is hard. And it gets a lot (A LOT) harder as you move up the levels. This comes as a surprise to many riders. It did to me. I thought I was a good enough rider to sail up the levels back in the day. Nope!
There are many other forms of riding a horse that are easier, that require less horse, less commitment and less expenditure. And itās great that we have that choice. If thatās what floats your boat, go have fun with it! The horse-riding police are not going to force you to do or watch dressage.
However, for some of us, the biggest rush in the world is riding the most perfect collected to extended trot transition that we can. And itās worth the minutiae of the work. Sorry not sorry if that bores you. Iām not forcing you to watch.
21 Likes
This is exactly whatās been happening in Los Angeles, too. The CDIs are all in the Thermal or San Diego areas and the weeks-long series mean that the trainers and upper level riders arenāt showing locally much.
1 Like
