What is killing recognized dressage shows?

[Cowgirl]

@Manni01

OMG reading this made me feel like I have no right at all to complain… I am so impressed with your dedication!!! And really I think people like you should somehow be recognized!! It does not only sound expensive but also like a lot of work and traveling around!! I have a friend who rides GP with her horse and who just moved into a barn next door. And I sometimes feel sorry for her because she left the perfect boarding training situation and is now still trying to figure out how to do everything. All the best for you and your horse!!!

I tried the training board situations, thinking it would make my life easier–$2k per month plus the other expenses on top–supposed to get 3-5 lessons or training rides per week (depending on the package). I don’t want anyone else riding my horse–my interest is in training her myself–and the one hour commute after work made me get there too late during the week for a lesson. The people who benefit from these situations either don’t want to ride their horses full time, or don’t work/commute and can get lessons before the trainer ends their day. So I paid $2k a month and got maybe 3-4 lessons a month. For a while, I tried to work around the trainer’s lesson schedule–i.e. leave work very early and then work when I got home after my lesson and go in early, but it was too stressful for me. But the biggest problem with these situations is that if you don’t have them ride your horse, the horse isn’t properly cared for. In the situations I’ve been in, the working students or grooms do most of the handling of the horses–the farm workers are just there to muck and feed. If you don’t have the horse being tacked up and ridden by the trainer, the care seriously lacks. My horse was hurt every other month at the training barn because no one supervised her care or daily checked her for me or made sure the staff was following her care instructions (i.e. don’t leave her outside alone). I’d come out to ride and find her bleeding or infected or missing a shoe, etc., and would be the first one to notice. In the situation I am now in (and every other boarding situation other than training barns), the main business is the care of the horses. My horse is safe and well cared for in my current situation and I have the money that I was throwing away on training and that I wasn’t using and on emergency vet calls to put toward maintenance and care. So while I have a lot more hassle, having to trailer out on weekends, my horse is safer and better cared for and I have more peace of mind. Also I get all the satisfaction of having trained this horse from training level to GP myself .

Still, I would really like to turn back the clock to the days when I could find a nice private dressage barn with an indoor to board, trainers welcome but no forced training fee, and where my horse had ample turnout and nice hay…I do think this still exists in certain parts of the county. I do think that the lack of boarding opportunities near to the metro area is what is killing dressage here. There is just no entry level or economy level any more.

[atr]

Cowgirl, I came from Utah to Estes Park for Regionals last year. I’m glad I did it once, very pretty place and all, but OMG, the drive up there! I had to apologize to my horse when we got there (and I live on top of a mountain.) And frankly, unless you were one of the favored, anointed few and got in the new barn, the stabling was truly awful, and the footing was very poor–and the weather was dodgy.

I know this year it’s in Parker (moot for me as I have an injured horse) and that is a nice place. However, the Utahns are largely opting for Region 6 as it’s a quicker and easier drive to Boise.

(We’ll get punished next year when out options are Scottsdale or wherever Region 6 will be, though.)

The event you mentioned in your post… you know, most of us in Utah didn’t know it was happening, or I think you would have got some representation from here.

Our recognized show options have become limited to 2 venues this year, which is a bit problematic.

We are seeing the same thing with barns disappearing. One of our nicer local ones is up for sale at the moment, which makes me sad.

[Mondo]

“I used to show h/j way back when, and compared to that, dressage seemed cheap! In h/j, it is the rare person who would go it alone…you just don’t do that. And you don’t just do one class, you do a division. And your trainer does a division on your horse on the pro days. And maybe you do two divisions… the modified as a warm up, and then the adults. Oh, and there’s the day fee paid to the trainer, and stabling, and tipping the grooms, and all the federation and extra fees. And unless you have really nimble fingers and are an excellent braider, you pay for braiding. And since you want your braids to look good, you do it every day. And and and…”

^^ I could have posted that word for word. Thanks! It’s so true. When I left H/J and focused on Dressage over 25 years ago, I was amazed at how much cheaper the shows were! But I was also horrified that they didn’t offer stakes classes or prize money. How’s a person supposed to win their entry fees back? LOL. To this day, I pay for braiding - I have always sucked at it and my arthritic fingers are not improving with age…

[Cowgirl]

@atr

Cowgirl, I came from Utah to Estes Park for Regionals last year. I’m glad I did it once, very pretty place and all, but OMG, the drive up there! I had to apologize to my horse when we got there (and I live on top of a mountain.) And frankly, unless you were one of the favored, anointed few and got in the new barn, the stabling was truly awful, and the footing was very poor–and the weather was dodgy.

I know this year it’s in Parker (moot for me as I have an injured horse) and that is a nice place. However, the Utahns are largely opting for Region 6 as it’s a quicker and easier drive to Boise.

(We’ll get punished next year when out options are Scottsdale or wherever Region 6 will be, though.)

The event you mentioned in your post… you know, most of us in Utah didn’t know it was happening, or I think you would have got some representation from here.

Our recognized show options have become limited to 2 venues this year, which is a bit problematic.

We are seeing the same thing with barns disappearing. One of our nicer local ones is up for sale at the moment, which makes me sad.

I hope you come next year for the 3 week event with Symposium. I would like the Symposium to be successful–it was really great and run very well. I agree about Estes! I also had my leg broken in two places and a displaced chip from my horse’s rf coffin bone at Championships in 2015 when some kids came on the property in costumes, twirling signs (the next door high school’s fund raiser was the same weekend) not to mention that I had already said my hail mary’s over the moose that were rutting on the property all weekend! Our H/J crowd loves it there thought–the Copper Penny Series (3 weeks of H/J shows in Estes) allows them to rent a cabin and take their family on vacation while horse showing! The CHP has beautiful new footing and lovely barns. I love showing there even though they tend to hire the crabbiest judges over and over again (and just when I think I’ve been judged by the crabbiest judge in the universe, they find one even crabbier! HA!)! I hope that we are able to continue having shows there. The years that we couldn’t, the choices were between bad footing and worse bad footing…but they don’t help themselves when they hire a panel of international judges just coming off of judging Laura Graves and Lars Peterson for the locals to try to get qualifying scores for regionals…

[snowrider]

I’ve been getting 0-2% raises for 5 years. My health care premiums and ever-increasing co-pays eat up my annual raise plus some. My living expenses have has been going up 5%+ per year and horse expenses faster than that. In the last 10 ears I’ve gone from being a low-mid level professional with plenty of spare hundreds of dollars per month to show to a high level manager who is broke as shit because my expenses have gone up 10x faster than my salary and if I do have a some spare hundreds of dollars some months then I feel I need to save them to defray future expenses. Horse showing, with the attendant fees and gear was the first thing to go.

[mmeqcenter]

@rjr

I don’t see $65 as exorbitant for a 45 minute lesson. I just paid almost that much for a haircut that didn’t take anywhere near 45 minutes. I pay more than that for a massage. I pay twice that for psychotherapy. Although riding instructors don’t need graduate degrees and formal education, most of them have put in more training, time, blood, sweat, tears and talent than the other professionals I mentioned. Most of them are needing to support their own horse(s), lessons, clinics, and showing in order to make progress in their careers. Plus, a portion of that fee is usually going to support the facility, arena, footing, arena care, etc. That takes at least as much money as supporting a professional office-based type practice.

If it’s exorbitant or not is pretty relative. Personally I would never in a million years pay near that much for a hair cut, and my hair is past my waist and yeah it takes an hour or more. Meanwhile my twin sister is happy to pay $85 for a 15 minute cut and blow dry on her chin-length hair.

I was fortunate to find a dressage instructor in my new area who charges a very reasonable fee (considerably less than the $65 discussed) and travels to me. Meanwhile I can’t find a jump instructor who charges less than $85+ to save my life, and some of these are eventers who haven’t even competed in a 2*. In my hometown, the best instructors in the area, with significant national and international hunter and jumper experience, were expensive at $55/hour; both there and here are very saturated horse areas.

[Manni01]

@mmeqcenter

If it’s exorbitant or not is pretty relative. Personally I would never in a million years pay near that much for a hair cut, and my hair is past my waist and yeah it takes an hour or more. Meanwhile my twin sister is happy to pay $85 for a 15 minute cut and blow dry on her chin-length hair.

I was fortunate to find a dressage instructor in my new area who charges a very reasonable fee (considerably less than the $65 discussed) and travels to me. Meanwhile I can’t find a jump instructor who charges less than $85+ to save my life, and some of these are eventers who haven’t even competed in a 2*. In my last location, the best instructors in the area, with significant national and international hunter and jumper experience, were expensive at $55/hour; both there and here are very saturated horse areas.

If you don’t mind, please pm me the name of your dressage instructor. I live in your area and I really haven’t found anybody for less then $65 Thank you so much!!

[soloudinhere]

@snowrider

I’ve been getting 0-2% raises for 5 years. My health care premiums and ever-increasing co-pays eat up my annual raise plus some. My living expenses have has been going up 5%+ per year and horse expenses faster than that. In the last 10 ears I’ve gone from being a low-mid level professional with plenty of spare hundreds of dollars per month to show to a high level manager who is broke as shit because my expenses have gone up 10x faster than my salary and if I do have a some spare hundreds of dollars some months then I feel I need to save them to defray future expenses. Horse showing, with the attendant fees and gear was the first thing to go.

And that would be why I’m getting out of horses entirely, not just phoning it in on showing.

[SaddleFitterVA]

@soloudinhere

Not correct.

You can only accept prize money in any other discipline if you are an owner of the horse in question. In dressage, you do not have to be an owner.

“d. Accept prize money as the owner of a horse in any class other than equitation or showmanship classes.
e. Accept prize money in Dressage”

I thought it was expected that the owner gets the prize money, not the rider. But, good clarification for the non-owner who is showing a horse in classes with prize money.

To the original point of the thread, IMO, dressage shows are not really fun. For all the reasons that have been listed here. Nasty rail birds, snarky comments, no social stuff.

I will continue to attend the licensed shows until I get tired of pursuing my USDF Medals. I’m currently hovering between 4th and PSG, need PSG scores, not ready to show at that level yet.

My youngest horse turned out to be a jumper, so I’m dipping my toes back into the jumper shows, and having to find my confidence over fences again (a few years of no jumping and those fences got bigger!!!). And while having no specified ride times can be annoying on the whole, the shows, while expensive, are fun. There are competitor breakfasts, coffee, snacks, one had a really nice lunch set out Wed/Thurs, evening competitor parties where there are beer/wine/food served. Stabling is crazy expensive in both.

I leave a jumper show happy if I didn’t crash or fall off, or have a bad miss, even when I didn’t win, all the rail birds manage to seem supportive. The other trainers are usually helpful, even to non-clients.

I leave a dressage show, relieved if I didn’t get snarky comments from the judge, smiling if I got a score over 60 (because yup, I’m just an AA learning while showing on my horse I bought as a yearling, keep at home and take lessons to progress…same as with my jumper), and head home. The ride times is part of what makes the show less enjoyable. Anyone who is a ship-in usually is an in/out, goes on to do other stuff elsewhere. When stabling, it is a bit more enjoyable.

But, in dressage, it is NEVER, EVER good enough, and that part gets old.

[netg]

@atr

Cowgirl, I came from Utah to Estes Park for Regionals last year. I’m glad I did it once, very pretty place and all, but OMG, the drive up there! I had to apologize to my horse when we got there (and I live on top of a mountain.) And frankly, unless you were one of the favored, anointed few and got in the new barn, the stabling was truly awful, and the footing was very poor–and the weather was dodgy.

I know this year it’s in Parker (moot for me as I have an injured horse) and that is a nice place. However, the Utahns are largely opting for Region 6 as it’s a quicker and easier drive to Boise.

(We’ll get punished next year when out options are Scottsdale or wherever Region 6 will be, though.)

The event you mentioned in your post… you know, most of us in Utah didn’t know it was happening, or I think you would have got some representation from here.

Our recognized show options have become limited to 2 venues this year, which is a bit problematic.

We are seeing the same thing with barns disappearing. One of our nicer local ones is up for sale at the moment, which makes me sad.

Honestly, this is a big reason I resent USEF and USDF fees, and am not that into showing rated in general. On top of just prioritizing my education over showing because I have SO MUCH to learn.

Our region reaches from Mexico to Canada, and we are expected to participate in events which take place once a year (or every two years) regardless of where they are within that region. We are supposed to be excited to go to our regional championships despite the long haul, then supposed to be excited to travel across the country a very short time later to get to nationals if we qualify. Even though I personally am not in “danger” of having to make that specific choice, I am still greatly offended that USEF and USDF has ignored the repeated feedback on the subject of geography with no apparent desire to change anything.

I have provided a lot of feedback on geography and ideas to help with that. I have volunteered to several committee members to help with a program which takes into account the fact that many of us farther from population centers do not have high speed internet available, and therefore we can’t take advantage of e-learning opportunities. It seems like setting up a mail-order service like the early days of Netflix would help the many rural USEF/USDF members. There are so many other ways to work with/help those of us who are in areas which are not the focal areas of dressage, and the USEF and USDF have zero interest in following through on any of them, even when they are given volunteers with proposals willing to set it up themselves. Yes, that makes me prioritize putting my money into supporting local educational opportunities instead.

[TwoTrickPony]

netg–I hope you keep putting your ideas out there and getting involved. Things will turn eventually, and hopefully your ideas will get heard and used. I’m not that interested in that part of it and becoming involved that way, so I hope people like you do!

I don’t know what the answer is. I’m still showing, but for the first time in 30 years, it may be a possibility in the future that I will not. It is expensive, but it’s what I choose to spend my money on, and I certainly can’t afford hunters or eventing (if I even wanted to do that.) I drive really old vehicles and am proud of it, I keep my horses as cheaply as possible, do my own hoof care and horse care that I can manage, don’t buy expensive things that other people do. Some people have enough money and support to do all of this and spend money normally. Others choose to shop a lot, go out to eat regularly, and buy vehicles with payments. I choose to forgo that and show.

You know one thing that’s never really taken off that could bring it back more to most of us friendly might be doing more quadrilles, freestyles, and more unusual things. (Maybe Manni can pop in on this as I think it’s more common in Europe.) I’ve been doing freestyles for 30 years, and it’s definitely a lot more popular, but there are still few people doing it. And there was an attempt to get quadrilles going and I know quite a few people that were involved in that. It just never took off. Can we do something more along the fun lines where people can show and have fun with their well trained horses and not have so much focus on buying the super gaits and training?

[Manni01]

@TwoTrickPony

netg–I hope you keep putting your ideas out there and getting involved. Things will turn eventually, and hopefully your ideas will get heard and used. I’m not that interested in that part of it and becoming involved that way, so I hope people like you do!

I don’t know what the answer is. I’m still showing, but for the first time in 30 years, it may be a possibility in the future that I will not. It is expensive, but it’s what I choose to spend my money on, and I certainly can’t afford hunters or eventing (if I even wanted to do that.) I drive really old vehicles and am proud of it, I keep my horses as cheaply as possible, do my own hoof care and horse care that I can manage, don’t buy expensive things that other people do. Some people have enough money and support to do all of this and spend money normally. Others choose to shop a lot, go out to eat regularly, and buy vehicles with payments. I choose to forgo that and show.

You know one thing that’s never really taken off that could bring it back more to most of us friendly might be doing more quadrilles, freestyles, and more unusual things. (Maybe Manni can pop in on this as I think it’s more common in Europe.) I’ve been doing freestyles for 30 years, and it’s definitely a lot more popular, but there are still few people doing it. And there was an attempt to get quadrilles going and I know quite a few people that were involved in that. It just never took off. Can we do something more along the fun lines where people can show and have fun with their well trained horses and not have so much focus on buying the super gaits and training?

TwoTrickPony, not sure whether freestyles are more popular in Europe but we have something which is extremely popular (problably more spectators and more atmosphere then some of the “Big” competitions. They do this usually at some of the bigger Shows.
Its usually a team of 4 riders and they either show a freestyle or a test specific for 4 riders. Most of the time the team is from one Riding club, sometimes the team is put together from an area. They perform amazing and there is a lot of heart blood in it to put it together. Spectators love it…

one example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyAKRnUNP0g

or this…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9020jd0If0

or this…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snl-v0fC4Go

[SzIICo]

This is a fantastic thread, many great points! Interesting that others are also seeing the schizophrenic judging at lower levels and also how discouraging it is that it’s become common to decide on shows based in the judges in attendance. Other than the fees, what are some of you paying for show coaching? And how are you desiding if the coach is worth that? If traveling out of state( or even locally) to show with your coach where do you put your foot down on what expenses you are willing to pay for them?

[Cowgirl]

@SzIICo

This is a fantastic thread, many great points! Interesting that others are also seeing the schizophrenic judging at lower levels and also how discouraging it is that it’s become common to decide on shows based in the judges in attendance. Other than the fees, what are some of you paying for show coaching? And how are you desiding if the coach is worth that? If traveling out of state( or even locally) to show with your coach where do you put your foot down on what expenses you are willing to pay for them?

When I boarded at the full training barn, $800 a month covered 8-12 lessons a month (which I never got) and show coaching, but only if the coach was going to the show you are going to. Outside of that I pay $65 for a regular lesson for a coach to come to my barn and she charges $25 per class for show coaching. I pay $45 for a half hour; $75 for 45 minutes, for a clinic every other week with a *****FEI judge. The most I’ve paid for a clinic is $250 per ride.

I did once board where every service from the coach was a la carte. At shows, she’d charge her regular lesson fee per test and split fees for the tack stall and groom.

[Pocket_Pony]

I’ve paid $35-$75 for lessons when I haul out, depending on trainer and location. I don’t have anyone come to me (I’d like to, but hauling out is a great experience anyway so I’m fine with it). Two trainers I’ve worked with here both charge $50 for coaching at shows.

I’m happy to do my own warm-up at shows, too - I don’t feel like I necessarily need a coach for that at this point since my pony is green and we’re just playing around at training level.

[Cowgirl]

@Pocket Pony

I’m happy to do my own warm-up at shows, too - I don’t feel like I necessarily need a coach for that at this point since my pony is green and we’re just playing around at training level.

Since I ride so much on my own, I also find it detrimental to be coached at a show. I had my coach at the last show and she agreed because on the day when she couldn’t be there except to hand me my coat, I was more relaxed and rode a better test. So we have agreed that I pay her to be there for ringside support!

I also have to add that our largest show facility usually offers “concierge” service. For $10 a day, they do night checks every hour, give water and hay, and feed in the morning for me. Well worth it!

[SzIICo]

Wow! What part of the country are you in? I haul out to lessons ( an hour away) and pay 100 per horse for 45 min lessons each! The last local show I had my coach at was 150 per horse for 1 class each- although ended up scratching the 2nd horses test and just schooling) and when we went to an away show I paid their airfare (instead of them driving the 3.5 hours), car rental, hotel plus 350 per day for 3 classes one day and just one class the next. Coach wasnt there the first day of the show and we did much better than the next two days. I also ride mostly myself and usually try to go to shows just with a groom because I seem to do better that way as well, with a coach there I seem to always be pushed to overdo warm up and end up with no horse for the tests. The last two times I did have a coach there both horses overheated before we ever stepped foot into the test arenas. Don’t get me wrong I love my coach for lessons but thought this last time was highway robbery and wasnt made aware of what the coaching fees would be until after the show. Figuring these things whete the standard for a client to take care of I didn’t even bring it up. Prior to this coach I ended a relationship with my last coach who charged me a travel fee plus coaching fees even though they where there with their own personal horse and in the same classes as I was in so I didn’t actually get coached. Thought that was very unprofessional so we ended that there. Does your coach have listed fees or do you just get billed afterwords? Also to note this is a young coach/trainer new to the area so not a big name that one may expect to be charged an arm and a leg. I tend to show pretty often so lots of times the schedule works out in my favor that they can’t be there. When I show my jumper, it’s a completely different story and I always feel undercharged for the work she puts into us and end up giving her extra because I feel like she should be charging more.

[Cowgirl]

I was billed afterwards but asked ahead of time the costs.

Years ago, I trained with an International team rider for another country (she had competed in the WEG and been short listed). She would travel to me (I was SO lucky) and teach as long as it took that day and charged me $100 per lesson (this was about 6-7 years ago). At shows, I stabled with her and her full training clients and they helped me and she coached me if she didn’t have a conflict. I paid the lesson fee for that. She was up front and honest. I was also coached by someone who now rides for the US and she coached me at shows for $75.

I need help at shows with the horse more than I need coaching. I have a full time job and it’s always frantic to get to a show, set up , etc. and I get tired for my tests. I like to have someone to feed in the am, do a morning hand walk, change water in water buckets, and, if possible, pick stall. For this, I have paid grooms as much as $100 per day (and they cleaned my tack and tacked/untacked the hors). At the last show, I paid $10 per day for night check, water refill and hay refill.

[CFFarm]

I don’t know that recognized shows are dying (at least not around here) but I know that since it has gotten so popular and more people with $$ have gotten involved it has gotten harder to compete for the little guy. Let’s face it, if Lola’s flashy $30,000 2nd level horse goes against Peggy’s $5,000 back yard pinto and all things being equal (test wise) who’s gonna make a bigger impression on the judge?

I personally think a lot of people have forgotten what dressage was before it turned into horse showing. You rode to get YOUR score, to see how your training was going in comparison to the ideal not to “win the class”. Now, people don’t enter if they don’t think they can win even if it was possible at a reasonable cost, which for most of us it is not. JMHO

[Cowgirl]

@CFFarm

I don’t know that recognized shows are dying (at least not around here) but I know that since it has gotten so popular and more people with $$ have gotten involved it has gotten harder to compete for the little guy. Let’s face it, if Lola’s flashy $30,000 2nd level horse goes against Peggy’s $5,000 back yard pinto and all things being equal (test wise) who’s gonna make a bigger impression on the judge?

I personally think a lot of people have forgotten what dressage was before it turned into horse showing. You rode to get YOUR score, to see how your training was going in comparison to the ideal not to “win the class”. Now, people don’t enter if they don’t think they can win even if it was possible at a reasonable cost, which for most of us it is not. JMHO

HAHA, you need to correct your figures for inflation! Around here, the $30k horse is losing to the $150k horses and there seem to be no shortage of people who can afford six figures for a horse.