What is killing recognized dressage shows?

[meaty_ogre]

I know this thread is dressage-oriented, but it’s not just dressage shows. Everybody has taken a big hit here (Mid-Atlantic region). Rated/recognized breed shows (AQHA, APHA, Arabian) that I or close friends have traveled to have been very poorly attended. Several long-running shows have been cancelled, and last year (maybe this year as well) AQHA and APHA combined to put on a weekend show due to dwindling entries, and cancelled another altogether. While there are a couple of local circuits that still have a very loyal base, others are struggling to stay afloat and are being creative in trying to attract more entries, or have simply disbanded.

For what it’s worth, I don’t think show fees/expenses have changed much over the past decade as others have pointed out. And I have a few parent friends who are paying big money to enable their kids to do competitive cheerleading and travel ball. Both of those are still probably cheaper than showing horses, but they aren’t cheap and entail a lot of travel expenses. So there are still people out there with disposable income.

One problem I see locally is a shortage of quality barns and breeders feeding the horse show circuits. When I started riding (hunter/jumper, about 20 years ago), there were several barns with decent lesson horses and quality instruction that could get you from being an up/down student to jumping a respectable course in under a year (with a dedicated student taking weekly lessons and a quality lesson horse). Those barns also had capable junior riders who were basically working students, usually reschooling OTTBs under guidance of the head instructor to be replacement lesson mounts and sales prospects. It was an efficient machine turning out both horses and riders for the next levels. Now, I would be very hard pressed to recommend a barn for beginner lessons that has safe mounts and quality instruction. There also used to be a handful of breeders turning out nice horses, and a couple of folks who could start a horse with the basics and get them to a point where a motivated amateur could take the reins and finish the job with quality instruction. Today, I only know of a couple of very small scale breeders who put out one quality foal every few years, and I have no idea to whom I’d send a horse to be backed locally. Without these things feeding the schooling circuits, and then the schooling circuits feeding the rated shows, it’s all starting to shrivel up a bit, some places more so than others.

To me, there are only a few reasons someone would show at a recognized dressage show:

1. To earn qualifying scores towards bronze, silver, gold or other awards
2. The recognized show is closer or on a more convenient date than schooling shows

For a typical backyard, do-it-yourselfer or even a person boarding at a competitive barn but with modest goals, it makes more sense to just go to a schooling show or a clinic to gauge progress, and for many with dressage, it’s about the journey and learning so that’s enough for them.

[ToN_Farm]

Wouldn’t USEF/USDF have records of entries over the years? I’d be interested in seeing if entries are really declining and when that started happening. I’m thinking that they are not declining that much except maybe in some areas.

Here’s some reliable data through 2012:

http://www.dressage-news.com/2012/12/07/usa-recovering-from-sharp-decline-in-dressage-participation-study-finds/

[MysticOakRanch]

@ToN Farm

Wouldn’t USEF/USDF have records of entries over the years? I’d be interested in seeing if entries are really declining and when that started happening. I’m thinking that they are not declining that much except maybe in some areas.

Here’s some reliable data through 2012:

http://www.dressage-news.com/2012/12/07/usa-recovering-from-sharp-decline-in-dressage-participation-study-finds/

I’m in one of those areas mentioned in the article (California), and can tell you just by observation, we are just starting to recover. I do think the recession was the impetus for decline. Many people HAD to stop showing (and many gave up riding), and some people just didn’t come back. I’ve been showing and volunteering in this sport for several decades now, and there is a definite shift.

I can also tell you, the place I see the biggest gap is the typical older adult rider who doesn’t have the super fancy horse, and was showing on a budget, usually at Training and First level. They use to fill up our shows! Those lower level classes are much smaller now, and there are many more fancy horses and trainers, and not much else in those classes. We have lost the base layer of riders - and those were also often our volunteers when they weren’t showing!

We use to fill up our shows - especially the smaller one and two ring shows - with those riders. Our smaller shows have suffered - two show series in the area that use to fill up with wait lists a decade ago are now not full days. Sometimes they cancel because of lack of entries.

Our Junior Championship show use to be 3 to 5 rings going for 3 days, and in the past decade, it has dropped down to less then 2 rings. At the height of the recession, I wasn’t sure the show would survive - my chapter GMO ran a concurrent show with it just to fill up those 2 rings.

Our schooling shows are booming. And Western dressage is booming. I think it is a combination of high costs of showing, and discouragement if you don’t have the fancy horse (and usually the fancy horse in full training).

[soloudinhere]

@MysticOakRanch

Our schooling shows are booming. And Western dressage is booming. I think it is a combination of high costs of showing, and discouragement if you don’t have the fancy horse (and usually the fancy horse in full training).

Yup. Nothing like being entered in a class that doesn’t have enough entries to justify splitting anything other than junior/senior and being the adult amateur warming up next to a four year old with a pro rider who both have their acts together more than you ever will.

It’s a great way to wonder why you paid $400 for the privilege. No it’s not about winning but the judges are now looking for that too and everyone else is left behind.

[Manni01]

@soloudinhere

Yup. Nothing like being entered in a class that doesn’t have enough entries to justify splitting anything other than junior/senior and being the adult amateur warming up next to a four year old with a pro rider who both have their acts together more than you ever will.

It’s a great way to wonder why you paid $400 for the privilege. No it’s not about winning but the judges are now looking for that too and everyone else is left behind.

I like your post and it makes sense… In Germany everybody has to ride against pro riders with very fancy horses all the time but then you only paid 40 Euro for it… But it makes sense that paying 400 for the privilege of being left behind does hurt more…

[MissAriel]

I’m late to the party, but I will chime in with my experience as an adult amateur in San Diego - a competitive dressage area.

I live in an area where horse keeping is expensive - easily equivalent of a mortgage payment or more each month just for board and lessons. For myself and others showing is often the first place people can economize.

As a comparison, I tallied the costs for a single day of showing at a recognized show, a show in the recognized schooling show series and a true schooling show. To make comparisons, I did a single day, two classes, trailer in, and assumed no non-member fees required.

Recognized show (all the bells and whistles you would expect): $16 USEF Horse fee, $45 office fee, $5 drug fee, $3 travel grant fee, $60 grounds fee, $110 class entries. TOTAL $249

Recognized schooling show (prizes and ribbons, compete for end of year awards): $5 Drug fee, $10 grounds fee, $100 class entries TOTAL $115

Schooling show (no awards or ribbons - just feedback from judge): $5 drug fee, $15 grounds fee, $30 class entries TOTAL $50

Based on this, office and grounds fees contribute the most, with the difference in class entry fees also a consideration. In this example, the recognized show is at a large multi-use show facility maintained by the local government in a prime location. I suspect high grounds fees are also charged for hunter/jumper shows held here as well. The other shows are held in smaller facilities holding only a few events each season.

I will also need a membership for myself and my horse for the recognized shows, or pay the hefty non-member rates for the recognized shows, not to mention trailer fees and coaching fees for any shows, so it adds up fast, and the $200 difference between recognized and schooling is a big chunk of money.

Plus for some schooling shows don’t have the same expectation for turnout and dress as the recognized shows. Sure, half chaps are technically allowed at lower levels, as are breeches in colors other than white, but I have never seen them at the recognized shows. Schooling shows, however, allow those of us new to showing a chance to get involved without spending another pile of $$ on clothes and tack.

On the other hand, it is a great experience to be at a big show with other competitors of all levels. It is inspiring to see the FEI horses warming up for their tests and instructional to watch a few classes and see the progression up the levels. My experience has been that exhibitors are generally friendly and supportive of each other, possibly even more at the big shows, because people are hanging out all weekend, not driving in, riding their tests and leaving.

As many have pointed out, it is about value for those of us budgeting the horses into our lives. How do I want to spend that $250+ with my horse this month/show season? A big show experience? A clinic? Extra lessons? Chiro, vet, supplements, farrier? No right answer.

[ArabDiva]

@MissAriel

On the other hand, it is a great experience to be at a big show with other competitors of all levels. It is inspiring to see the FEI horses warming up for their tests and instructional to watch a few classes and see the progression up the levels. My experience has been that exhibitors are generally friendly and supportive of each other, possibly even more at the big shows, because people are hanging out all weekend, not driving in, riding their tests and leaving.

This has definitely been true for me. I’m a 1st level rider and I find it very educational to watch FEI or even 2nd level tests. One of the real luxuries at my local recognized show series is electronic live scoring that you can watch on your mobile device. So, in real time I can watch a horse go, think about the score I would give for the movement, and see what the judge said within 10-30 seconds of the movement.

Recognized shows are a vacation for me – a chance to hang with my friends and watch pretty horses all weekend. But I have really close relationships with my barn friends. Somebody showing on their own without a crew would probably have a different experience. For me, schooling shows (or should i say one day shows) are exhausting–I don’t love doing the get up early, haul in, ride, pack up and go home thing. I like to be there for longer and soak it all in. But I think that’s largely because of the company, and because the recongized shows in my area are well-managed and have a lot of amenities (like gorgeous show grounds and the live scoring).

[soloudinhere]

I have been showing at recognized shows for several years. Without fail the FEI rides are the first of the day and therefore I have never seen one since I am too busy taking care of my horse and getting ready for my own rides. I think I have seen someone warm up a 4th level horse at a show exactly once.

If I’m stabling and for some reason those rides are middle or end of day I might get to catch one. But if I’m not riding and it’s midweek I am usually working from my phone or my truck to pay for all this and I don’t get to see much.

[Horse2019]

Welp I decided no more rated dressage shows for me. Why? Harassment by the TDs. Example - getting pulled aside coming out of the show ring snapping pics of me without permission. TD asked me if I considered my shirt a mock collar. Uhhhhh yes that’s what it is. It’s in the rule book. Sorry I didn’t wear a stick tie bc I do have a mock collar on. Said the judge wanted to see it. Wtf. I spent all day worried if they were eliminating me! This sort of thing has happened multiple times. So much more to write but after more bad experiences and only worry at shows, that’s it for me. Tired of being persecuted while spending thousands.

[Horse2019]

Another reason to show at rated shows is the show record for a sake horse. No one cares about the schooling show record.

[enjoytheride]

This thread is from 2017.

[Mardi1]

@cheektwocheek

Years ago, shows put more thought into the little things, like good prizes!
In the old days…entry fees got you a small gift bag. What happened to getting a saddle pad, treats, brushes, gift certificates, halters & maybe a cooler? Those days are pretty much over.

I get jealous when I hear about the loot given at AQHA shows. Those days for us dressage peeps, seem to be a thing of the past.

The Arab shows get a lot of nice things too, especially at their US championships.
And they can order more personal stuff at the show, such as jewelry with their horse’s name and championship title engraved on it. Very cool and not a bad idea.

I agree about the lack of special prizes in dressage. I still have the lead rope my mare won 26 years ago as the high point horse showing in hand. But I did finally throw away the jar of saddle soap we won at a rated USDF/USEF show in southern California.

The parent of a young rider has told me it’s very unfortunate when the young dressage riders compete at the same venue and dates as the H/J riders at NAYC. The h/j kids come back to the barn with all sorts of great prizes - all sponsored of course - and the dressage kids not so much. Not sure why dressage in general doesn’t solicit more sponsors for nice prizes ?

[Bogey2]

No one Volunteers anymore…schooling shows and recognized shows can’t run without help. Two of the recognized shows in my area said they could no longer run shows because they didn’t have enough help.

[Bogey2]

But it’s still relevant!

[NJRider]

Although this thread is from 2017 it’s still is definitely relevant! And our region we had many shows that traditionally were full with two rings and ended up going to one ring or would end in the early afternoon instead of going until 5:00.
And yes I would have to wager a guess that overall everything is much more expensive. Stabling, gas, I’m sure it’s more expensive to bring the judges in.
It’s not like dressage shows make a lot of money compared to hunter shows.

I would be interested in comparing whether clubs that put on shows that have good organization and do a great job of engaging their members have better luck getting volunteers than clubs that are little cliques and then when it’s time for the horse show, all of a sudden they are in a panic looking for warm bodies.

[barnesthenoble]

I stopped showing due to a horse injury, then life getting in the way. I kept volunteering but let my memberships lapse.

I stopped volunteering (mainly scribing, but I would take whatever spot needed filling) after multiple sour experiences. It didn’t make any sense for me to keep volunteering when I would leave the show exhausted and feeling crappy about myself, my horses, and the sport. I had multiple eye-opening conversations with judges where they raved about the improved quality of horses vs 20 years ago and would make less-than-pleasant comments about off-breed horses. Never outright mean, but it was simply clear that they were not enjoying judging the plainer horses, and the scores reflected it. The fancy moving WBs got forgiven for mistakes that nailed other horses. The final straw for me was a conversation over lunch where two judges and an L candidate were discussing the breeding and showing trends, and one lamented the folks who keep “trying to make it work with crappy OTTBs and the like, when there is so much better quality to be had now.” I wish I was joking or making this up. I scribed the rest of the show and asked the show manager not to contact me again, and have not volunteered for any show since. Previously I was happy to volunteer my entire weekend 6-8 times a year for various shows. I didn’t care about gifts (lunch was always nice when offered, but I was fine bringing my own) or gratitude or whatever. But I was just done after that experience.

As an OTTB owner and lover, I just don’t see a place for myself or my horses in recognized dressage. I had no delusions about winning, and had long-since accepted that I’d be riding against myself, not for a ribbon. But it no longer feels like I would even stand a chance of getting a respectable score for the test I put in, let alone that some of my medal scores would even be attainable on the horses I ride. The cost is too high and the footing too unequal to be worth my time and not insubstantial expense. I’d rather spend the money on lessons, clinics, and other horse activities like working equitation, trail trials, etc. I still enjoy watching some of the international dressage competition, but it just feels like the sport has moved past a point where riders like me are valued.

[pluvinel]

@enjoytheride

This thread is from 2017.

Still pertinent. Consider the proposal to post at trot. I don’t know about you but my inbox is peppered by requests to volunteer…people don’t do this so much.
Same thing. How to get more participants in the show ring.

[VodkaRedbullx2]

Old thread. But have you noticed the cost of braiding lately? It’s gone from 30-40 to 60! And stalls are now 175/200 to 300 a weekend and no options to pay less if you show just one day.

[phoenixrises]

I think what this shows us is our worries are not new, and the sport seems to be chugging along just fine, and there are a lot more people out there with a lot more money that I ever thought, therefore these shows really don’t miss many of us.

[clanter]

@phoenixrises

therefore these shows really don’t miss many of us.

well they sure miss those whose heart was in the sport that volunteered to support those shows, let their money pay the workers as they then badmouth the commoners