What is the detriment of an overly large cart?

[apachepony]

I realize that sounds like a stupid question, but I have a good reason for it!

A friend is trying to sell her meadowbrook cart that she inherited from someone whose horse died. She wants $250 for it!

I’ve been looking for a step up from my jog cart, and the price is just unreal. It has 90" shafts and she said the shafts are 42" high when held level. It’s been under a cover it’s whole life.

I could have sworn that the jog cart’s shafts were 84" (15.2 horse, cart fits well). I need to remeasure, but when I was looking at the ADA’s shaft length chart, I got very confused.

http://www.americandrivingsociety.org/DB_shaft_table.asp

The shaft length to height comparison for the meadowbrook don’t line up to anything, and i’m pretty sure my cart isn’t 75" shafts.

I have a feeling that the meadowbrook would be too big, but for $250, is it even something to use until I could find a better size (and i’m talking, in my flat pasture, at home)? If you’re not driving around obstacles, is there a huge issue with the shafts being too long? I can see where if they tilted down it could be uncomfortable on the horse.

[butlerfamilyzoo]

Maybe it’s an optical illusion, but is she sure the shafts are 90"? From single tree to tip? They just don’t look that long to me… But it might just be the pic angle.

[goodhors]

Well, for the price I would snap it up!! You can buy parts, modify the shaft length yourself, get smaller wheels to level shafts out. If you need to shorten shafts, can’t afford new, shorten them from the butt end. Never EVER cut off the front end of shafts. Ruins the shaping and comfort to the horse. With that low price, maybe you would be able to afford getting those things changed at a shop!

Or you could resell it for more than you paid, take the money to find a nice cart the exact right size, for your horse.

Vehicles too big tend to “slop” around on a horse. Shafts may be extra heavy on the tug loop, so heavy on the horse. Any moving by passengers is REALLY felt by the horse, could make the shafts even heavier. Often times the too-long, too-wide, shafts sort of swing back and forth on the sides of the horse, so cart may appear to be “waddling” while you drive.

Horse might be too far away in long shafts, making turning harder. Things are just not in the correct proportion to make the load easy to handle for the animal.

I would try it on the horse, before making any changes, could be she is not measuring things the way you are.

Carts and carriages are MADE to have parts replaced, so new shafts, wheel changes, especially in more modern vehicles, are pretty easy. Maybe your carriage fixer would do a trade, bigger wheels for smaller and a little cash. The hubs are modern, flush, so roller bearings inside are quite standard in modern wheels. Easy change there. Or you could order a set of smaller wheels to use, keep the old ones if he doesn’t want to trade.

I would say go for it, sounds like one of those “great deals” you only hear about AFTER someone else buys it!!

[Drive_NJ]

People measure length of shaft differently, so dont count on what someone says to you

BUT get the wheel measurement
46inch tends to be a bit short for 15.2H horses
48inch is average wheel size
50-52 inch were special ordered
and you usually dont see larger than that

We drive a draftX 15.2H - cart has 52inch wheels and 87 inch shafts
Our boy wears an 84 blanket

another rough guess measurement is - blanket size is approx shaft length

You will probably need to have the brakes services as well, since its been sitting a while, but thats not a big deal

But I agree - for the price you can get someone to do the work to cut the shafts back if needed

BUY IT!

[apachepony]

I just got this reply: "I should have mentioned how I measured the shafts - not sure if I did it right.* The shafts come back straight, and then they attach to the cart.* But, there is a rounded piece where the horse’s butt would go, forming a “U"shape with the 2 shafts.* I measured to the center of that “U” and got 90 inches.* Not sure if that makes sense.”

Any thoughts on what it would cost to have it sized appropriately?

[butlerfamilyzoo]

I’m just thinking you may not have to have it changed at all. Have her remeasure the shafts tip to front of box/swingle tree, NOT following around the curved U shape piece like i think she measured from the description? And then get a wheel measurement.

I think costs to have things changed are totally going to vary on where you have local to change it and what they charge.

But i agree, for the price, buy it, it looks to be in great shape. Sell it for more if it’s too costly to change and doesnt fit.

[buck22]

At that price I would snap it up yesterday.

I had my eye on a very nice meadowbrook once but I would have needed smaller wheels and shafts. On advice given here, I think from Goodhors, I called Whitmers and got some price estimates on shafts and wheels. Both were a lot more reasonable than I expected. The purchase fell through, but I was pretty happy to find out that swapping out sizes of shafts and wheels was reasonable enough to make bargain hunting feasible. Location matters though, I’m driving distance to Lancaster, PA.

At that price I would buy it myself without a second thought, like BFZ said, if nothing else I could resell it later on for a little bit more, and that buyer would be thrilled at their bargain :lol:

ETA: if she measured from the tip of the shaft to the center of the U then she likely measured on an angle and added an inch or three.

[apachepony]

I’m convinced the driving board isn’t actually part of COTH. :winkgrin: Every time I ask a dumb beginner question you all go above and beyond at providing kind, useful information!

With that said, i’m going to throw more questions at you. :lol:

I’ve asked her to remeasure the shafts, and include the wheel height. She has no problems letting me bring it home and try it, but it will be nice to know what i’m getting into.

I called the closest carriage repair (aka backyard side hobby, 2 hrs away, well known name is 4 hrs away), and she said that in her experience it’s difficult to replace meadowbrook shafts, as they continue all the way to the back of the cart. She said she could replace the wheels if I could find the replacements. Wasn’t able to give me an idea of price. Very nice person, but didn’t leave me enthused about finding someone withing reasonable gas cost driving distance to repair it.

If I were to buy this with the intention of reselling it to fund another, what would it potentially go for? I would probably also sell the awesome jog cart I picked up for $200 to help fund a proper non-borrowed-from-the-pony harness. I measured it, and got 85" shafts. I know it’s a bit different since it sits lower though. COTH’ers thought this to be a Jerald Model Q. I have no idea what it might go for!
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ANPpfqlj-C4/T71Paz5ht3I/AAAAAAAAIoI/bWObCRO-Puc/s576/moon.jpg

There are two carts i’ve had my eye on locally (both from the same owner), even though i’m lacking the funds for them. However, if I ‘traded this one in’, they might be feasible. Their measurements only add to my confusion when comparing to what I have.

“I have up for sale a Raber built cob size road cart. It has 42 inch wheels, 72 inch shafts from the crossbar and it is 22 " wide at the most narrow point on the shafts. I have completely disassembled the cart, refinished it with the best Marine Spar Varnish (50.00 / qt) and reassembled it with all new bolts. It didn’t have a dash so I had one made and finished it to match. We love this cart but our paint “pony” decided to grow to 15.2H so it just doesn’t fit her any longer. I am pricing it to sell at at a reduced price of 650.00.”
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-G90v6BTCNHM/T7zhzjhl9DI/AAAAAAAAInI/37S6MKqnKqE/s600/P77860603.jpg
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-0QTOtIpAnjQ/T7zh0V2KJEI/AAAAAAAAInQ/TTCejfrMT4c/s600/P77860604.jpg
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-m4_qF_g3nP8/T7zh1TVIJ2I/AAAAAAAAInY/HUhPekJQGyc/s600/P77860705.jpg
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-VxrjX6HIhDc/T7zh2TcfPhI/AAAAAAAAIng/NIxC-iJssbM/s600/P77860706.jpg

and

“I have up for sale a beautiful draft sized Country Road Cart. It has been completely rebuilt to fit the Suffolk Punch draft we no longer have. She was very wide and 16 hands so the shafts needed to be widened along with the crossbar, the singletree and arc brace which are all new. The shafts are also brand new. I put all new bolts everywhere except the floor basket. It was refinished with the best Marine Spar Varnish. (50.00/qt). You will notice from the pictures that it has a perfect cloth tufted seat. New bearings were also installed. It is in excellent shape with a complete spares kit comprised of all of the extra gear in case of emergency on the trail. The shaft width is 38” at the closest point, they are 76" long from the crossbar and it sports 48" wheels. It is ready to go. The cart is reduced to 850.00. If you need it we could include a warmblood sized biothane harness for an extra 325.00."
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-XTvBolCbLug/T7zhv6adu-I/AAAAAAAAImw/EwHC4dgnKkE/s600/P77860400.jpg
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Y21aKcZ8xsU/T7zhwyhvf2I/AAAAAAAAIm4/CZhNCzM0TBg/s600/P77860501.jpg
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-A41n12qV0VI/T7zhyIwPIbI/AAAAAAAAInA/Bp52TveDHq4/s600/P77860502.jpg

[apachepony]

She remeasured. Shafts are 90", wheels are 48".

[Chewbacca]

My 16.2 hand QH drives with a meadowbrook that has 80" shafts from tip to single tree. The wheels are 48" on that vehicle, too. And honestly it is ever so slightly short for him. It probably would be best with 50" wheels, but it isn’t the end of the world and has worked for me so far.

I can’t see how the shafts of a meadowbrook could be changed out without basically dismantling the whole box… at least on the 2 meadowbrooks I own, the shafts are not only bolted in at various places near the dash, and extend all the way to the rear of the seat, but they are also tongue-and-grooved- into place, too. I’ve replaced other pieces of the meadowbrooks, like that U piece, the single tree, and a few front & floor boards, and those all just unbolt with the carriage bolts, but the shafts I can’t see how they could be changed. Wheels can definitely be changed out.

For the price and condition of the cart, I would definitely seriously consider it, if the length of the shafts is the only question - just make sure the wheels aren’t too tall for your horse, unless you’re definitely going to change them out.

Otherwise, the vehicle is going to tilt downward in the shaft loops and put too much weight on the horse’s back.

[horsegeeks]

I am the owner of the two carts you mentioned in your last reply. What size is your horse? I can tell you from the size whether or not one of my carts will work for you. These carts are almost like new since I rebuilt them.

[apachepony]

Ha! What a small world! I’m in Angier. You can’t be far from me. I’ve been admiring your carts ever since they’ve been up.

Moon is a 15.2 chunky QH, wears a 76" blanket.

[horsegeeks]

[QUOTE=apachepony;6333651]
Ha! What a small world! I’m in Angier. You can’t be far from me. I’ve been admiring your carts ever since they’ve been up.

Moon is a 15.2 chunky QH, wears a 76" blanket.[/QUOTE]

Oh yeah we are real close for sure. Unfortunately neither cart will fit your horse. I am planning on reducing the size of the draft cart back to horse size in the sort of near future. Come by sometimes and take a look at them. We just ordered a new Country Carriages USA country gig that we will pick up in two weeks when we get our haflinger from training in PA. I will pick up the cross piece, single tree and circle bar to shrink the draft cart back down but don’t know when I will be able to work on it. We have our daughter’s garage full of carts and they just bought a new car that they would love park in THEIR garage if WE gave THEM the room. If you would like someone to look at the Meadowbrook you mentioned with you I can next week.

[Drive_NJ]

Im still gonna say - BUY IT
for $250 you will never find a better price

And
now you know horsegeeks is so close
you have a ready source for someone who can give you pointers on re-doing what needs

HG - your carts are really nicely done
but looking at your carts and measurements give - I agree that neither will really fit for appachepony

the cob cart is way too small and the draft cart is too wide

replaceing (or shortening shafts) is really not that hard - takes a bit of doing but not terribly hard

In Short: you unbolt everything that attaches to the shaft
-slide the shaft back as much as you need and then redrill and rebolt everything

might be easier to just get new shafts

Im surprised that your local cart fixer was so hesitant to do the work
and HAH
YOU can easily replace the wheels (but you dont need to - 48 is the right size) you just unbolt and fit on the new ones
YOU can also easily replace the bearings - which you might consider doing
they cost about $11 from Witmers plus shipping and some axel grease you get from an automotive parts store

Dont be daunted by the work

And really - you may find that for just driving down the road - the long shafts arent too bad - til you get time to fix them

that would be winter for us - but maybe the hot of summer for you

[apachepony]

I’m so glad you guys told me to buy this cart! I went to get it today, and despite being very very dusty and dirty, it’s a beautiful cart. It certainly needs some sanding and a new coat of varnish, but it’s very sound.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-9sWUMb303dA/T8Aq71KcwrI/AAAAAAAAIos/eWMmG0M3qs0/s679/P99395600.jpg
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-lg4bHPTZ7UQ/T8ArD1JrNnI/AAAAAAAAIoY/6hpBo5ujdGQ/s640/P99395801.jpg

We cobbled the harness together enough to make a few laps around the yard, and I love it! It’s a huge looking cart (hey…i’m used to a pony cart!), but on him, I don’t think it looks nearly as big as I expected. The shafts are carriage bolted to the body of the cart, and I bet they could be easily shortened by someone more comfortable and me with disassembling the cart.

Now just to find an affordable used harness!

[gothedistance]

Oooo! Very, very pretty!!! What a steal!!!

[China_Doll]

It looks level and if your traces are long enough I would just move the cart back so the shafts do not stick out in front of the shoulder. Also you need a wider saddle. That looks like a fine harness or for a 4 wheel which doesn’t put weight on the shafts. Move the hooks forward for your breeching and you should be set to go.

[Drive_NJ]

YEAH ! ! !

you got yourself one heck of a deal! ! !

As long as you are just driving around for fun, you should be fine with the cart as is

I agree - Move your horse further out in the shafts and move the footman loop for your breeching to get a better angle.

Then eventually, when you have time, shorten the shafts

It looks great with your horse and you should have a lot of fun driving this cart

[goodhors]

I agree with the others, GOOD BUY!!

Just letting his traces out some should get the shaft ends even with his shoulders. The wider harness saddle will make the weight bearing area more comfortable.

I like the height, wouldn’t get any smaller wheels for it. And as mentioned, you can get the shafts shortened some time in the future, if you want to. Not a crisis for using it as is. Just one of those “it could be more perfect if you did this change”, among us Driving folks.

His shine and the cart’s shine are pretty close, looks good hitched behind him! I predict a lot of fun in your future.

[Chewbacca]

Congrats on the killer deal. By far the single best deal I’ve heard of in a long time !