What is this horse worth?

[sorrelfilly721]

They are mostly (not as much as pleasure horses), but it seems to be the trendy thing to do. I don’t understand why since when stopping they are tucking their hind legs under. Add putting the head down and that seems to be a very long stretch of the spine.

@Jealoushe I think because it takes less time to produce a winning reiner/pleasure horse, they aren’t showing as long. Finish them up and on to the next one. I’m sure some are lame, but the ones I knew stayed sound mostly for a long time. Even barrel horses - I see them all the time racing in their 20’s and FAST.

[Jealoushe]

Not many in our area that last remotely that long unfortunately, most go off to trail homes though.

[IPEsq]

@Mardi1

Reining, and western pleasure, ride/train their horses to go in a down hill position. Throughout equestrian history - whether the horse was used in war, agriculture, transportation, competition - no other disciplines do that. The horse isn’t built that way.

Does any one know what the benefit is of training them to go down hill ? (sincere question)

How do reiners ( or any other discipline ) get their horses heads down

[SillyHorse]

@Jealoushe

Not many in our area that last remotely that long unfortunately, most go off to trail homes though.

I see the same thing.

[BigMama1]

With the shuffle / sideways lurch that is still so popular in the western pleasure classes, it’s quite difficult to tell if the horses are genuinely unsound, or just trained to look that way. From what I saw boarding at a high profile WH barn one summer, they show the crap out of them at an age where we wouldn’t be even starting them under saddle, maximize the points / money they earn, and don’t care one bit about long term soundness. Or even short term soundness, since most of their show careers were done by age 6.

I’m glad there are other AQHA disciplines that show more respect to what is one of my favourite all round breeds. If and when I finally stop trying to learn dressage, my poking around on the trails and galloping in the fields pleasure horse will most likely be a QH, or something with a good old-fashioned QH brain.

[Bluey]

@Jealoushe

Not to start a war but most of those reining or pleasure horses are done by 9 years old also. 9 is old for the western world to still be out competing.

What do you base that assumption?

If you go to enough reining shows, you will see many, many older horses competing at the lower levels and at advanced ages.

Several of our horses were competing with juniors and in college finals into their 20’s, one still is.
I just saw the other day another, now 24, with yard privileges, sound, healthy and happy, that has still been competing.

Many competition horses in all disciplines may do well into older years, some won’t if they are not managed properly or have other problems, not just in reining as I well know, I would not know about pleasure.

[MapleBreeze]

I am on The Struggle Bus with my words tonight, but there is the “is it perfect enough dressage yet” side to this and “how do i use great marketing to get a great price”.

Some people buy schoolmasters to learn and grow on. Many people by schoolmasters who are not capable of riding those levels, so they don’t know what they don’t know. So the op could be very lucky and market the horse for sale at say 30k and negotiate down into 25 to 28k and realistically find a naive adult amateur who has a trainer at home but doesn’t want to pay for the trainer to actually look at the horse and sell her horse.

Over the years I’ve had people contact me for like video reviews of sale horses and I’m always mystified by Captain Obvious things like they were Starstruck that a horse was schooling second level and I would say okay then in the sale video this work used to demonstrate a clear and balance counter canter, lateral work, and a turn on the haunches. However because the person’s just looking for a horse to grow with they have no idea that they should be checking for a horse that can already display those movements in a sale video.

So if the Op wants to take great marketing sale video, Glam up her horse to the nines, and use exceptional marketing words that relate the horses to food items, as long as she sticks to around 30 she probably has a good shot.

Cause you know, theres a lot of people that think you can buy a grand prix horse and hit some buttons and they go grand prix.

[Jealoushe]

@Bluey

What do you base that assumption?

Not an assumption at all, personal experience and knowledge. I know and am friends with people who show in the biggest barrel and reining shows in North America. The people I know agree with the statement also. Known fact of the industry. Maybe there are some old ones but they are the exception not the norm.

[sorrelfilly721]

Did you read my post? I’m not selling this horse. I was just curious what people thought it was worth. I’m not trying to misrepresent the horse in anyway. Wouldn’t make sense since this is hypothetical. I’m just stunned by what horses are listed for and was curious. Thought it would make an interesting discussion.

[MapleBreeze]

Then why?? Like a horse is worth what someone pays you on that particular day

[sorrelfilly721]

Because it makes for interesting conversation.

[Bluey]

@Jealoushe

Not an assumption at all, personal experience and knowledge. I know and am friends with people who show in the biggest barrel and reining shows in North America. The people I know agree with the statement also. Known fact of the industry. Maybe there are some old ones but they are the exception not the norm.

If they really believe that, why are they then participating in an industry that they feel is not doing things right, especially if those are harming their horses?

[cnm161]

The trouble with the off-breed dressage horse is that you’re in the same price bracket as the young-warmblood-with-potential. And people are, generally, more likely to value potential (the dream of winning Nationals) vs. proven (and less likely to be regionally/nationally competitive)-- even if their own riding is nowhere near regionally/nationally competitive.

So to command higher prices, the off-breed horse has to be a) carrying a star-studded resume of good scores at the level the horse is advertised as doing, and/or b) be a good color/have other breed-show benefits.

That said, there have been some absolutely insane prices for honestly just decent rideable horses (like this auction group). So honestly who the hell knows.

As an aside, I am a mid-career professional and have evolved from riding those WBs with potential in college/early 20s to my current guy, a 9yo QH gelding with the proverbial heart of gold. And for me, right now, he’s invaluable: soaks up training like a sponge, tries hard every day, and has 3 decent gaits that can be jazzed up to 7s, super pleasant on the ground and under saddle, but can tolerate somewhat inconsistent riding schedules when real life intervenes.

[trubandloki]

@cnm161

The trouble with the off-breed dressage horse is that you’re in the same price bracket as the young-warmblood-with-potential. And people are, generally, more likely to value potential (the dream of winning Nationals) vs. proven (and less likely to be regionally/nationally competitive)-- even if their own riding is nowhere near regionally/nationally competitive.

I think this 100% depends on our market audience.
Lots of ammy level riders would rather buy something that they can get on and enjoy than buy something that is fancy that their trainer can enjoy.

[cnm161]

Oh yes, absolutely.

Unfortunately I usually see that the ammy riders that buy something they can ride and enjoy today have been bitten before by the promise of potential. Which sometimes comes hand in hand with a reduced budget, because the previous dream horse was sold for a loss if sold.

For clarity I am 100% pro- amateurs buying horses they can ride and enjoy today. But those horses typically don’t come with the same premiums as the pro-ride horses. Although again this post-COVID horse market is a whole new world so maybe my info/experience is dated.

[Jealoushe]

Ask them? Also, I never said they thought it wasn’t right, I said they acknowledged and agreed horses have no longevity for the most part in those sports. Some people don’t care that they are crippled and off to trail homes. I don’t have the capacity to police everyone’s horsey moral standards.

[MadTrotter]

Those auction group are insanity. I am half convinced it’s some sort of insurance fraud/money laundering front!

[Bluey]

@Jealoushe

Ask them? Also, I never said they thought it wasn’t right, I said they acknowledged and agreed horses have no longevity for the most part in those sports. Some people don’t care that they are crippled and off to trail homes. I don’t have the capacity to police everyone’s horsey moral standards.

That can be said from any we do, with horses, dogs, humans included.

Sports or any other competition will bring some talent to the top, best management kept competitors healthy and sound, some will not make it and give it up and do other, that is the way competing works, in all we do with horses also.

Picking up on any one we do is just idle talk, easily put in context once we give those words a second thought.

[sorrelfilly721]

@MadTrotter

Those auction group are insanity. I am half convinced it’s some sort of insurance fraud/money laundering front!

Right?? I just saw a ranch horse go for $152K. Sure, he could do tricks like sit down and he seemed super broke, but what if he steps in a hole and breaks his leg? Crazy to pay that for a riding horse.

[MadTrotter]

It’s the kind of $$$ Parelli gets for “reserve” horses that he ostensibly trained and evaluated himself. Overpriced but at least he guarantees them https://shopus.parelli.com/pages/dream-horses-private-reserve-perforamance-horses