I live in Ireland but as my partner works in silicon valley, I am moving to santa Clara. I have done very low level eventing in the past and want to continue horse riding. I know how expensive the sport is in the USA and while my salary (as I also work in IT) will cover board/training etc, I don’t think I will be able to compete much. But just being at the barn with my horse is good enough for me.
What I could bring to the USA will be sold before we return to Ireland in less than three years. If it costs circa 12k to transport and if I invest circa 6k in the animal, I would like an animal worth $20k stateside. I am small so have always ridden 148cm ponies. For a 6k budget, I could buy a very well bred, attractive (perhaps dun) 148cm or overgrown 158cm gelding who could be fun, capable of eventing up to 1 meter, and would pass five stage vetting. And quiet in every way. When I buy, I could place him with my Irish trainer for six months of SJ/dressage/eventing competition as gaining this mileage in Ireland would be much cheaper than in the USA.
When I want to sell, he will be probably 7 or 8 year old. Full Connemara or Connemara mix. But would such a animal be worth $20k when I want to sell please? Its a wealthy area but I think trainers have huge influence. Would such an animal be dismissed for being too small? In Ireland it’s not unusual for a amateurs to ride small horses - and the highest place Irish horse at Badminton this year was a 158cm connemara! And I would personally prefer something small. I know I am also lucky to live where I could literally buy anything! And rest assured, he would be fully insured. Also all I want is his air fare and purchase price back - not profit per se!
Thanks in advance for your advice.
I’m not from CA, and horse prices vary a lot depending on the region, but there are a few things to consider that are pretty universal in North America.
If you are looking at a smaller horse /pony, I think your best bet might be a sport pony that can be marketed to competitive youth riders. Adult riders here usually prefer larger horses, but you might get away with a horse in the 158cm (15.3hh) range.
A mare will keep her value better than a gelding.
The price of a horse increases with the show record. Unless you are specifically marketing to Connemara breeders, the show record will probably be more important than the bloodlines, and showing at rated shows is pretty expensive in the States. I would not expect the “general public” in North America to know what good Connemara bloodlines are.
Also, since you said you want a Connemara, a lot of North Americans are not crazy about grey horses cause of the risk for melanoma. If you are looking for a quick and easy sale, a flashier color would help a lot.
You could ask a trainer to help you with the sale, but they usually take either a fixed commission or a percentage of the sale price.
That being said, up here in Canada (and horse prices tend to be a bit more stable here than in the States) there is very little chance that you would get $20k for a horse like that. $10k maybe…
I would not expect a return of investment on any horse. Unless you are dead set on importing, I think in your case I would get a horse in the States and have fun with it for the time you’re there. Develop it as far as you can, and chances are probably better that you might make your money back. There are plenty of capable, fun North American breeds that are smaller, Morgans for example, or POA or American Sport Ponies.
It would be much easier to buy a horse in the states for around $6000, bring it along, and then re-sell. I think trying to get $18,000 back on an animal would be fairly risky. So much can happen in 3 years, and I’m pretty sure your import fee isn’t covered by insurance (I’m not an expert on insurance though).
There are plenty of cool ponies and smaller horses in California if you are worried about not finding something small, as DogIsMyCopilot says. My Morgan is 153cm.
I personally don’t think you will have too much trouble getting $20k for a super nice, well trained 15.3 Connie.
Thanks for your feedback. It’s hard to know from another country how things truly work. But I’m getting a sense that because the sport is so expensive, that the ‘clients’ experiences are very ‘controlled’. For example: in Ireland my livery cost $675 and that includes everything you’d expect from livery. My private one to ones with my trainer are $33; and entry to a one-day event would be $70. My trainer doesn’t come with me to shows (as no-one does over here) so no expense in that regard.
I would have thought in Silicon Valley that anyone interested in horse-riding would be pretty well to do - but I’m presuming that because of how the trainer ‘control’ system works, that clientele aren’t accessible. I’m not adverse to buying American but over here I’d be able to control what I’m buying, have full support my very knowledgable sister and trainer - and it’d be a very high quality animal (for the money). I’m a bit concerned about moving to the US where I know no-one and won’t have a support system (and while I can stretch to livery/board costs, I’m far from a millionaire so not as attractive to a trainer). I suppose I could lease for a while but it’s not the same as having your own. And I think pretty expensive also?
There are also a number of top US Connemara breeders in CA and up the coast into Oregon and Washington. See https://www.facebook.com/ACPSRegionX/ and also http://www.acps.org/regions/region-10.
In addition, there is -
http://willamettecoastride.com/about/
I do realize that you are not looking for a recreational trail ride, but I thought this might be another indication that you can find a great prospect on the west coast of the US.
Lots of great Irish breed ponies out there - have fun!!
[QUOTE=Bluemoon1234;8708294]
Thanks for your feedback. It’s hard to know from another country how things truly work. But I’m getting a sense that because the sport is so expensive, that the ‘clients’ experiences are very ‘controlled’. For example: in Ireland my livery cost $675 and that includes everything you’d expect from livery. My private one to ones with my trainer are $33; and entry to a one-day event would be $70. My trainer doesn’t come with me to shows (as no-one does over here) so no expense in that regard.
I would have thought in Silicon Valley that anyone interested in horse-riding would be pretty well to do - but I’m presuming that because of how the trainer ‘control’ system works, that clientele aren’t accessible. I’m not adverse to buying American but over here I’d be able to control what I’m buying, have full support my very knowledgable sister and trainer - and it’d be a very high quality animal (for the money). I’m a bit concerned about moving to the US where I know no-one and won’t have a support system (and while I can stretch to livery/board costs, I’m far from a millionaire so not as attractive to a trainer). I suppose I could lease for a while but it’s not the same as having your own. And I think pretty expensive also?[/QUOTE]
I would still buy a nice horse and bring it over here. My advice would be it needs to be a gelding, it needs to vet perfectly sound (nothing really nothing should show up) it needs to be under 10 at the time you plan to sell it and not sure about eventers but otherwise it needs to be bombproof. No grey, Seizewise go between 15.2 and 16.3 You should be able to sell a horse like this in the US for good money.
And another hint while you are in the US riding the horse, develope good connections to the big name trainers in your area and try to establish a good show record for the horse.
[QUOTE=Bluemoon1234;8708294]
Thanks for your feedback. It’s hard to know from another country how things truly work. But I’m getting a sense that because the sport is so expensive, that the ‘clients’ experiences are very ‘controlled’. For example: in Ireland my livery cost $675 and that includes everything you’d expect from livery. My private one to ones with my trainer are $33; and entry to a one-day event would be $70. My trainer doesn’t come with me to shows (as no-one does over here) so no expense in that regard.
I would have thought in Silicon Valley that anyone interested in horse-riding would be pretty well to do - but I’m presuming that because of how the trainer ‘control’ system works, that clientele aren’t accessible. I’m not adverse to buying American but over here I’d be able to control what I’m buying, have full support my very knowledgable sister and trainer - and it’d be a very high quality animal (for the money). I’m a bit concerned about moving to the US where I know no-one and won’t have a support system (and while I can stretch to livery/board costs, I’m far from a millionaire so not as attractive to a trainer). I suppose I could lease for a while but it’s not the same as having your own. And I think pretty expensive also?[/QUOTE]
Hopefully we weren’t too harsh sounding! I know how you feel. I’m currently living in New Zealand and learning to adapt. But it’s so much less expensive to do any horse related things here which is great!! I take polo lessons for $40/hour and in the states it would probably be well over $80/hour. Also horses are fairly cheap to buy. I’ll be sad in that regard when I go home to the US.
It is hard to not have a support network you are comfortable with, I definitely agree. I do think you will gain one, in time. I have been in the country for 7 months and I have met A LOT of horse people. Probably more than I would have back home, and I think many of them would be happy to help me find contacts through their own networks.
However what you say about the horse culture in the states is inaccurate from my point of view (granted I have never lived in Santa Clara or been wealthy…but I have lived in California). I think you’ll get a really big variation in how things work there. Not all trainers are out to control their clients. And you definitely have the choice to NOT work with one that does act in this way. I have never had a problem with any trainers controlling what horse I purchased or ultimately what I chose to do with my time. Even the trainer that hated my horse couldn’t make me buy a new one 
I would suggest getting in touch with a few trainers/barn owners (because not every boarding facility has a set trainer they work with either, leaving that decision up to you) and talking to them about what you are looking for and trying to accomplish while you are in the states, and then make a decision if you really want to import.
I guess you could also try to approach the Connemara breeders Huntin’ Pony suggested and see uf they wiuld be interested in an imported pony of specific blood lines. Maybe you could work out a deal where you share the cost of importing the horse. You would have the rights of use for the time you’re there, and after that the horse would go to the breeder. You’d have a ride and they’d have the horse they want, for cheaper than if they’d import themselves, with value added by show exposure etc…
Blue Moon, I would suggest you make the move to CA before buying a horse for yourself, see what your work and housing situation is. Where you live vs. where the stable is located is not insignificant when considering traffic, etc. You would also be able to check out local stables and what the horse community is like before making a commitment.
I am on the east coast in an area with a lot of eventers and Pony Clubbers. There used to be a good market for nice ponies for juniors - that is much smaller since the 2008 financial meltdown. The horses/ponies I have seen that are sold to that group have show mileage - not necessarily blue ribbons but enough to know that their training and temperament stands up to the events. And $20K is now a fairly high price - many more in the $5-$10K range.
Planning to sell 3 years down the road seems very iffy to me - so much can change between now and then. Maybe take some time to establish the people relationships first.
Totally - and in reality: I wouldn’t import anything for at least six months until I can assess how things are over there. Last time when I worked in another country: my own horse came with me which in Europe is obviously a lot easier! He won’t be coming this time due to his age (but he’ll have a very happy retirement on our farm in the West of Ireland). So just trying to understand the angles as I make my preparations. Thanks again everyone - the advice is great.
Bluemoon, I’d recommend touching base with some of the local trainers. I’m in Silicon Valley, and there are various options depending on what you want to do and where you will live. You will have to commute in traffic to a trainer pretty much anywhere in the area, so you might consider either far South Bay (Dayna Lynd-Pugh), Scotts Valley area (Shannon Lilley) or the East Bay (James Alliston (Castro Valley), David Acord (Livermore/Pleasanton), John Michael Durr (Castro Valley), Tracy Bowman/Jolie (Martinez) and a bunch others I’m missing. Liz Hall is at the Horsepark in Woodside as well.
Expenses-wise, it will vary by barn and how full-service it is. Expect $600-$1000 board, and that again plus a bit more for full training. Few facilities have much turn out and grass pastures are almost unheard of once the Spring rains have passed. Show fees vary by trainer. You can check out Area VI in the competitions area of the USEA site www.useventing.com for show prices, but expect to write a check for $350-$500+ per show for entries and stabling.
Yes, it is expensive to do it here, but we have a great community of lovely people who support each other and love their horses. We have everything from the barest beginners and re-riders to Rolex competitors with lots in between!
FWIW, I imported a horse very similar to what you are describing from Ireland who is sound and small but has been very successful here. I would have no problems selling for more than I paid. There’s a lot to be said for a great brain in a rideable package. No, a smaller horse isn’t for everyone, but neither is a large one.
Feel free to PM me about where you plan to live, and I’m happy to offer some advice.
There is a big market for horses like you describe, here in VA. My friend, who events in Florida, has easily sold the nice Irish horses she imported. The market is best for geldings, around 16.1h.
Not in CA anymore, but I have seen Connemaras selling the the price range that you mention. BTW, I am an adult that likes smaller horses.
I think if you can go with a slightly larger size horse (16.0 to 17.0 h), you’ll make a pretty tidy profit if you import and put a show record on a young gelding. Instead of Connemaras, look at ISHs, which are incredibly popular. Connemaras have their fans (and I’m one of them!) but they certainly aren’t as easy a sell as an ISH would be for this market. For instance the Shannondale horses are currently surging in popularity.
If you import a well bred connemara and it competes here and does well I think you’ll easily sell it for $20k in the bay area. I have lived there and shown and it’s a different beast: lots of kids with LOTS of money eventing there. It’s not a real hot bed of up and coming young pros looking for a world beater. It’s wealthy amateurs and their kids for the most part looking for safe, sane and sound.
I have personal experience with the Connemara market in NorCal! Our pony market can be… interesting, to say the least.
I think the biggest difference for us is that the pony market in CA is not terribly large, so you can have a pony that’s absolutely worth a certain amount on paper, but it might take a bazillion years to find one buyer that’s actually looking for a pony in that price range.
I also think that it’s really hard to compare our pony market to other areas in the US, especially on the East Coast. I suspect that California tends to take the pony circuits quite a bit less seriously than other areas – both for pony hunters and eventing ponies. We’re geographically just really far removed from the big children’s pony events like Pony Finals or Pony Club Championships. There are some super ambitious kids in the area, but in general, a pony that’s “competitive” for Northern California often only really needs to be competitive on a local level, not necessarily a national one. A lot of people are understandably reluctant to spend the extra cash for a top quality nationally-competitive pony, when they’re only really looking to compete on a local level.
Another thing is that the Northern Californian eventing scene can be, uh, fairly tight-knit. A lot of sales are done by word of mouth, friend-of-a-friend, oh-I-knew-her-back-when kinds of things. You might have the nicest bred pony in the area, but a lot of people are forever going shopping in their friend’s backyards. :lol: (You may find that you’re unexpectedly competing with a bunch of low-budget ponies that have been showing around the area for years and have developed their own reputations – never mind that no one can remember who bred them or where the heck they came from. This isn’t a diss to the quality of your potential pony, just something that I see all the time!)
There is definitely a Connemara clique in the area that’s willing to pay for nice bloodlines, but IME, a lot of sport buyers are mostly familiar with lines that already exist in the US. You may have some issues trying to translate the Irish accomplishments of a certain line. I think the suggestion above, of trying to set yourself up with a breeder that knows exactly what they’re looking for, is a really good one.
I don’t mean to discourage you from the idea entirely! I do think you could, potentially, sell a nice Connemara for $20k in California. You should be prepared, though, that the margin for error in such a small market can be razor thin, and the time frame for getting the pony sold could drag on much longer than you’re prepared to deal with.
I believe that you’d have a much easier time selling a 16-16.1 hand bay Irish draft cross gelding than a Connemara. There is simply a much larger market looking for that slightly larger horse.
Yes, in eventing there is a market for a large pony, or a small horse…but it’s a MUCH smaller piece of the market. Older kids and adults can BOTH ride 16 hand horses, and lots of people would think of that as a small horse. If you truly want to start out with the most marketable horse you can, get a:
Bay
Gelding
Friendly
Great feet
Jumps whatever you point it at out of a 12’ stride in stadium
Jumps whatever you point it at from any distance cross country
Will pack some one through their first BN courses and be to get through prelim safely with the same rider
16-16.2
Extra points/$:
Cute face
Some white
Nice dressage mover
Excellent ground manners
I write this as a small, “pony person” who has ridden and sold lots of ponies on the west coast. The pony market here is all about Hunter ponies. That’s where the real $$ are, and it’s a very specific type, jump and look. There isn’t much of a market for jumper ponies, and yes you can sell eventing ponies but most people looking for one are not going to spend 20k on one. However, lots of people WILL spend that much on a green, honest, somewhat talented prospect HORSE.
Thank you so much everyone for your replies. The difference between the Irish/uk market and what I would consider as one of the wealthiest areas in the world is fascinating. So a new question please - if bringing my own capable and competitive 148/158cm is going to be too complex, what should be my budget for buying locally to be Competitive at your novice level if I don’t want a horse as big as 168cm? Or at least very safe and sane? Thanks again.
I would go on FB and do a search for (e.g.) “Bay Area Equestians” or “East Bay Equestrians”. Almost every part of the country has FB pages for riders/horses.
You can see what similar horses are selling for. – I am in NC and horses on the local FB equestrian page are selling in the $10k - $15k range unless it has a show record, Then it would sell for $15k - $20k.
I used to live in Woodside (next to Palo Alto) and I know that prices for horses there are commensurate with prices for everything. But board and training are also high, so it is probably going to be a wash as far as income v. outgo is.
If I were you, I would buy a pony (14.2h and under). It would be much more marketable than a 15h horse.
