In the feed. He eats the pills whole.
Bodywork vet wants me to try the nibble net for some of his hay. She thinks the ranitidine should help these issues but guesses it has not really kicked in? Said to use hind gut ph balancer (already doing that–Equishure). Wants to try the nibble net, which I can hang this weekend…may have to move buckets around.
[QUOTE=IPEsq;8892113]
I was not so worried about the poop eating so much as his attitude about the poop eating! Cue severe temper tantrums if I do not let him eat the poop, go back near the poop, etc. You’d think there would have been a bucket of peppermints in the middle of the arena taunting him with the attitude he had. He is generally not a rearer under saddle.
I mean, it was kind of extreme! Actually, I tried to distract him with a peppermint to get him to move along and he preferred poop to peppermint![/QUOTE]
My friends horse used to do this but only with my little geldings poop. She would literally have to beat him off of it and away from it. I asked my vet about it because most horses seem to go a little batty over my little geldings poop and his thought was PH level. Apparently they are drawn to (now I can’t remember exactly) but I think he said low PH. My friends horses behaviour was extreme as well.
Yes, it took me turning his head in towards my knee so he couldn’t rear and other boarder tapping him on the butt with her dressage whip till we got enough forward I could trot away. Then there was the leaping sideways trying to get back to the poop. And then trying to stop and back up across the arena to get back to the poop. Weirdest thing I have ever experienced. And I’ve seen a lot of weird horse things!
has Equiotic probiotic ever been discussed? I totally agree it sounds like hind gut and if he just “knew” there was “something” he needed in rhat poop that would explain the obessesive/agressive behavior about it. I think foals will nibble manure to n populate their guts with the microbes it needs. I have found Equiotic works better than other probiotics, but ultimately happpy horse, happy hind gut. And also have seen horses on MSM be very gassy loose stinky poo.
[QUOTE=IPEsq;8892326]
Yes, it took me turning his head in towards my knee so he couldn’t rear and other boarder tapping him on the butt with her dressage whip till we got enough forward I could trot away. Then there was the leaping sideways trying to get back to the poop. And then trying to stop and back up across the arena to get back to the poop. Weirdest thing I have ever experienced. And I’ve seen a lot of weird horse things![/QUOTE]
Yep, seen this in the fall. Especially with geldings and mare manure. Some weird hormonal thing at the end of the season.
But it could also just be something about really nice hay that he’s super excited about and smells awesome as it’s “processed.”
He has been obsessed with mare manure before. But not this obsessed. And not eating it. The other horse in this case is a gelding. But this gelding is one of the ones on the new alfalfa.
[QUOTE=bt;8892618]
has Equiotic probiotic ever been discussed? I totally agree it sounds like hind gut and if he just “knew” there was “something” he needed in rhat poop that would explain the obessesive/agressive behavior about it. I think foals will nibble manure to n populate their guts with the microbes it needs. I have found Equiotic works better than other probiotics, but ultimately happpy horse, happy hind gut. And also have seen horses on MSM be very gassy loose stinky poo.[/QUOTE]
No have not looked into equiotic yet.
My pony will get REALLY gassy on MSM if the dose is too high for him. And the farts are SUPER stinky.
Is the feeding schedule posted earlier still valid? I would take him off everything except hay and the complete feed for a month and see how he is. Beet pulp is notorious for making some horses gassy, and all the supplements have a ton of ingredients and he could be reacting to any of them. If he loses a little weight it’s not the end of the world.
It’s also possible he has some internal adhesions from some earlier trauma or worm damage but I’d start with the feed before worrying about that.
In humans the PPIs (reduce stomach acid) will 100% lead to malabsorption issues over time, particularly of nutrients that require the acid to be absorbed like B12. So it’s a double edged sword and like you said, you cannot keep him on it all the time.
The weekend went a little bit better. I got him some Probios Friday after work and started him on it.
Saturday, he started off acting kind of the same, meaning, he’s ok to warm up at the trot for a few minutes and then wants to stop and acts grumpy/uncomfortable. After about 15 mins more of walking (we walk a lot at the beginning of the ride as well), he has 2 runny poops in short order. One at one end of the arena, one by the time we walk to the other end of the arena (about 60m). Then, he appears to feel great and continues on in what I would consider his 100% normal, forward self. It was getting close to lunch time, and I think he could hear some horses being brought in, so he got pissed, but he was forward and pissed (making his “I’m so mad!” whinnies), not balking/stopping. We get our planned exercise done. It’s not the prettiest thing, but it’s the kind of ride he tends to learn the most from, so I’m pleased. Has another runny poop back on the cross ties. Eats lunch fine. Later on that evening, poop looking a bit soft but better.
Tried hanging the Nibble Net. Put a more tasty flake of hay at the bottom to encourage him to give it a try. Horse has trouble with his overbite. Tries very hard but periodically needs my help loosening up the hay. Leave it for a few hours, come back, no noticeable dent. Dump hay out, resumes eating and dunking normally. Guess that’s not going to work!
Sunday, I have no real agenda because I’ve already ridden enough days in a row. We take a walk around the property. He is very good considering it is very windy, leaves blowing, etc. We then go in the indoor to get out of the wind, and another boarder is doing some groundwork. Has a tarp out, etc. So, we play along. Horse tries to eat the tarp, then smash the tarp, then finally walk over the tarp.
I pick up a little trot, and he’s very good. Doesn’t even care about some others going in and out the arena door (an issue at this barn). Trot a few minutes, then he wants to stop. Acts uncomfortable. Has to pee. Then still uncomfortable. Walk around probably another 15 mins or so. Gets a little obsessed with another horse’s poop but not as bad as Friday (and different horse). Other boarder picks it up, so that issue goes away. Eventually poops. Pretty normal pile. Then he is still grumpy but does pick up a trot. After a few minutes (including a lot of farting), we are also able to pick up both canter leads with no stopping, no bucking. The R lead depart in particular is not pretty at all, but he’s actually able to do it.
Keeping up with the Probios and ranitidine for now. Starting to cut back on the RB.
I’m hopeful we are on the right track.
Horse had yesterday off, and that definitely seemed to make things worse for today. Took me over an hour and a half to try to get 20mins of actual work done. He just couldn’t go around for more than a few minutes at a time without taking a long walk break wanting to put his nose on the ground and barely move until he got enough movement in his gut. I could also hear his hind gut gurgling from the saddle from time to time.
Happened to see both his bodywork vet and regular vet, though not there at the same time. Regular vet thinks I should maybe try acupuncture. They also want to give the probiotics more time. And bodywork vet thinks I should give ranitidine at least 3 months.
Gut sounds on the right side near cecum are too active. Left side sounds good.
Regular vet wants me to deworm with Quest. I just did Equimax at the beginning of the month. Vet wants to try Quest in case there’s any small strongyle issue.
So, keeping on keepin’ on for now. If I am still having this degree of problems in another few weeks, then vet will take a fecal and test for pathogens like coronavirus, salmonella, clostridium, etc. etc.
They don’t think it’s a nervy or neck or SI related thing. However, how do you tell?? I used to have all kinds of IBS/IBD problems until I got my lumbo-sacral area under control. Had other referred pain and nerve things too that I was primarily treating. That my belly got better was unexpected.
Can’t seem to get a call back his vet at CSU…
Have you tried Comfort Gut? I have a gelding that was really struggling with ulcers and gas colic. After traditional treatments, (GastroGuard & Omeprazole) I was skeptical but, figured it couldn’t “hurt” anything. I’m very impressed with the results. He has easily gained 200lbs on it. Very impressed.
[QUOTE=Hunter_Lady;8898626]
Have you tried Comfort Gut? I have a gelding that was really struggling with ulcers and gas colic. After traditional treatments, (GastroGuard & Omeprazole) I was skeptical but, figured it couldn’t “hurt” anything. I’m very impressed with the results. He has easily gained 200lbs on it. Very impressed.[/QUOTE]
No, do you have a list of ingredients by chance?
[QUOTE=IPEsq;8898640]
No, do you have a list of ingredients by chance?[/QUOTE]
https://www.comfortgut.com/faqnew.html
Just activated charcoal, if this is the right product.
[QUOTE=Simkie;8898644]
https://www.comfortgut.com/faqnew.html
Just activated charcoal, if this is the right product.[/QUOTE]
Thanks. I think if he’s got a problem that it would help I’d probably be looking to use Bio-Sponge after all (?)
The horse with whom we are poop obsessed was being ridden at the same time that I was riding last night. And, he pooped. And my horse became obsessed, but I prevented the rearing and eating of the poop this time. I wound up just getting off and picking it up after a little while, though.
I tried letting him eat some of his evening alfalfa while tacking up to see if it made any difference. I was then on the horse 2 hours(!). He started off forward and happy. Then trotted a few minutes and then we went through the whole song and dance. Then trotted a few more minutes and then got pissed when I asked for canter and repeated all the sour behavior. When moving, he was acting energetic and fresh until he’d just quit. After 90 minutes of mostly walking around (we did do some lateral work and such at the walk), we had kind of a CTJ discussion which involved a few cow kicks out and a lot of stink eye, and then it was kind of off to the races and I actually had to re-school the half halt, but I think ultimately we made progress, and I did get him to end more willing and responsive versus the extremes of balking or being a strong bully.
Horse was also very tight muscularly on R flanks as compared to left. Tried massaging some while grooming but he didn’t want to be touched there. Did more massaging of back, croup, and flanks after the ride, which he thought felt awesome and was giving me the long lip and he reached around to scratch my lower back. Passed more gas. The tightness on the right side eventually subsided.
We could really be back on track training-wise if I could get him comfortable. The local store was out of Quest the other day but should get it in today.
I’m trying not to google ‘right dorsal colitis’.
I’d be tempted to put one of that horse’s piles in his stall! Yeah, weird…
If you don’t get progress from the plan you have with the vet, I’d also buy a bag of MagRestore and try it for a couple weeks. Magnesium can make for a runny butt so if you see that increase, stop. But it can really, really help with that sensitivity, stressy behavior etc.
Call Performance Equine - the owner is really great and she’ll talk it through with you.
https://shop.performanceequinenutrition.com/magrestore-p45.aspx
He was even attracted to that horse’s farts! Horse owner commented that he usually doesn’t poop under saddle or fart so much. That horse is also on the new alfalfa.
However, another horse being worked last night was also gassy and pooped a lot. That horse has a history of pooping a lot during work (he, however, is capable of moving at the same time), but not being so gassy. That horse is not on the alfalfa.
The HorseTech supplement he gets has 5g of Magnesium. How much is in MagRestore? I only see it listed as a % and don’t see how many grams are in a scoop.
I think if my regular vet can’t figure it out I might have to get CSU internal medicine to look at him. There’s already a question on his R side inguinal ring…maybe he has a hernia or something? Might need a rectal and/or ultrasound. He also peed twice under saddle yesterday, which he has now done a total of 3 times since I’ve had him (one pee is a daily occurrence). Granted, I was on him 2 hours, but I can’t help but worry about impaction, kidney problem, etc., although he doesn’t have any other symptoms of a kidney issue other than the abdominal discomfort.
Have you talked about mild tying up issues?
