But unless all the kids had to do this regularly, it is a punishment. Don’t fool yourself. I’m not against using punishment as a tool, just know that is what you’re doing. This type of punishment works best with kids that are totally invested already. They will work hard to prove that they are worthy of your instruction. Not sure this student is that kid, yet.
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Maybe the student doesn’t really want to be there and is only there because of her parents. Could be she figures if she misbehaves enough or mouths off to you, you will throw her out of lessons. I’d sit her down and read her the riot act, with a stern warning about her mouthing off and threatening the horses. You can’t make her want to be there.
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I totally agree with this and I’m wondering why the parents were not told as soon as the behavior became an issue. OP’s job is to teach riding lessons, and if the child’s behavior is interfering, then let the parents know. Trying to “fix” this kid is not part of the lesson package.
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I guess I am showing my age here. Why pussyfoot around? Make it clear that you will not accept that kind of behavior or attitude. I taught one teenager who became moody and disrespectful (mainly towards the horse). I told her that unlike her parents I do not have to put up with her behavior and unless she changed she would no longer be welcome.
It worked. I could see that she attempted to change. I was careful how I related this to her keeping in mind that teenagers go through some growing pains.
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The first thing you need to do is get this kid out of group lessons because trust me, she is ruining the lesson for the rest of the kids and if it gets too bad, you may lose some of your students. My older son quit fencing lessons at one place because he said a couple of disruptive students took so much of the instructor’s attention that the rest of them weren’t learning anything and couldn’t advance.
Then, you can decide whether or not you want to attempt to keep this kid as a client. For me, it would depend a lot on 1) the parents and their willingness to work with me to improve the child’s attitude and behavior and 2) just how much the kid wants to ride. The kid has to want to ride badly enough (the “carrot”) that knowing that she will be pulled off the horse for bad behavior is a true deterrent, because as an instructor, that is your only legitimate “stick.”
If you do want to keep her a client, make her take 30 minute private lessons until you can get her attitude and behavior in better shape. At 8, she’s still quite young. To start, give her just a couple of simple hard and fast rules that she must follow, like “You may not yank on the reins” and “You must do what I tell you to do with no sass.” Put her on a lunge line or in a round pen so she’s close at hand (you don’t want her running away from you in a big arena when you tell her to do something she doesn’t want to do). If she breaks one of the rules, she must get off and stand in the middle for 5 minutes (like I said, she’s young, so you don’t need a long time). Then, she gets to try again. She messes up again, that’s it for the day.
I think for me, I would be more willing to try and work with this child if she really did love riding, but had some underlying behavioral issue that the school and parents were addressing and the child’s teachers/parents could work with me to develop tools to make her riding lessons part of the overall program.
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You are an instructor, not a nanny. You can’t fix this kid, and there is no point trying any longer. The deal breaker for me would be the attitude towards the horses. I would boot her out, and not allow her back until her attitude dramatically improves, and I’m betting that will never happen.
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A frank conversation with the mom is in order. I am all for figuring out how to get through to a child and I would wAnt a game plan the mom was on board with. Short of that, any sass would get her grounded at x for 2-3 minutes. That’s an eternity. She must stand quietly then get boosted back up. Rinse and repeat. Two offenses in one lesson, lesson is over when the third occurs. What do you have to lose?
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I’m still stuck on the “terrible threat to one of my horses part.” That would be grounds for instant dismissal to me. What on earth did she say?
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If you intend to set a line, you need to uphold it. I would guess her mom saying she has an attitude means she gets away with everything at home. She gives her parents sass, they set a line, she goes over it, nothing happens. Don’t do the same.
Of course, if I had a student that was disrespectful to a horse, that would be the end of the lesson there. No and ifs or buts. I’m surprised it continued after that.
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I am a Therapeutic Riding Instructor, and I’ve dealth with children with issues like oppositional defiance and behavioral issues. Is your student acting out because she has a diagnosed issue that the parents haven’t shared with you? Horseback riding can really help children with behavioral challenges because they can learn that for evey action, there is a reaction. I always focused on helping new students learn to respect the horse and develop a relationship of trust and friendship with the horse as a starting point. Sometimes doing groundwork such as involving the child in grooming and tacking can help them develop a relationship with the horse, or showing the child a funny or endearing quirk the horse has, so the child can see the horse as a sentient being instead of just a tool to ride.
That said, I also set very clear boundaries on behavior based on safety and respect for the animal, volunteers and instructor. I never allowed the children (or anyone else who came into the barn) to use deragatory references or nicknames like ‘lazy’ or ‘nasty’ or ‘fatty’ …those kinds of things that come sort of easy to some people…when referring to the horses and if a child showed disrespect toward the horse or the people who were helping, I would stop, have a conversation about respecting other living beings and the importance of kindness. I would also speak very quietly and ask the child to look at my eyes during that talk to really connect.
If the behavior did not stop, I would simply end that lesson and take the child off with an explanation that this wonderful animal has allowed you to ride on it’s back and carry you safely. If you cannot show gratitude for that and treat this animal with the respect it deserves, you don’t deserve this privilege.
While riding can help so many kids with behaivoral issues, there are some kids who are just so violent and disconnected that riding is not a good fit for them because they pose a danger to themselves or the horse. If I had a kid like that, I would be honest about it.
I wish you all the best with your youngster. I hope you can help her make the connection.
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Silly you, now we must treat all people as individuals, and accept all of their positives and negatives! We must not discriminate between those with attitudes and those without 
Seriously, OP, as the parent of a “tough” child (and two non-tough children), this is not your responsibility. Voice your issues to the parents and let them deal with it outside of lessons. I would never expect an instructor (as an instructor myself) to “fix” my “tough” cookie.
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OP, if that were my barn/my horses, that would’ve been her last lesson.
I am so curious to know what exactly she said to/about the horse she was riding! She’s 8 years old, where does such attitude come from? If shes that young and she’s already being cruel to the horses, get her the heck out of there.
Honestly, I wouldn’t give her a second chance. If you get rid of her now, maybe she’ll find a different hobby where she wont harm any animals. If you keep her, she will only get worse and take it out on the horses. We don’t need more people/trainers like that in this world- there are enough already! :mad:
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Teachers ALWAYS stand in loco parentis when they are teaching. And children are always learning even if you’re NOT teaching. And loco here has nothing to do with vegetation or states of sanity!!!
The OP can invoke the “nuclear option” any time they wish. As noted, they are the teacher of a narrow discipline, not a disciplinary entity or responsible for long term child development.
If they wish, they make speak with the parent and ensure they are not dealing with any sort mental or physical disease or defect. If the kid is “clean” but engaging in rude and disruptive behavior because they can then the OP, at their discretion, can sit down with the child and explain to them the Rules of the Lesson. This would include treatment of the OP, horses, other students, barn help, etc. They may want to channel Mr. Rogers or maybe R. Lee Ermy. It depends on their circumstance and personality.
If it works then they will be lauded as the hero of the hour. If it doesn’t then they can send the kid packing.
G.
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Why do you want to do that? This is not your child or protege. You have no way of knowing that she could be a great rider or trainer someday. She is eight and does not respect you. Plenty of other kids out there with the right attitude. Let her go and move on.
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Yes OP what did the kid say? Your vagueness is not helping with advice.
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It’s possible that she doesn’t want to be there.
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I love what Chai said ‘If the behavior did not stop, I would simply end that lesson and take the child off with an explanation that this wonderful animal has allowed you to ride on it’s back and carry you safely. If you cannot show gratitude for that and treat this animal with the respect it deserves, you don’t deserve this privilege.’
Riding is a privilege. If the parent has been allowing this child to ‘run the show’, as it seems, you will be doing the child a huge favor by teaching her that,as Chai also said, actions have consequences.
Edited to add, definitely have the Mom present for this girl’s private lesson. Set rules ahead of time for child, that for safety reasons, she MUST do what you tell her to do. If she refuses even once to follow your directions, that means end of lesson.
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Disrespect needs to be punished. She probably treats her parents and everyone this way. When she earns the privilege she can ride. If not send her packing and tell her and her parents why. You don’t have to be rough or rude with her, just honest.
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Don’t know what kind of barn chores you want an 8 year old who is nasty towards horses doing that’s not going to waste somebody else’s time to supervise? Or what kind of meaningful discussion you expect with her? That’s, really, a little, or a lot, young for such things and, frankly, above your pay grade to analyze.
You do mention the brother rides too? Is he older/better then her? Sibling rivalry? You are in a bad spot because everybody in your barn will know what you decide to do to this one 8 year old and nobody else. Watch that, kid could feel singled out for correctional action and at age 8, that’s devastating. Doesn’t matter what Mom says to you, others will perceive it differently.
Regardless this is a parental decision as far as what action to take and to then take that action, not expecting you to handle that for them, that’s not your job, thars theirs. These days you telling an 8 year old to go sweep the floor as a reprimand for anything is not going to come off well with your other clients or do your reputation in the area much good. Yes, some old trainers did that but I’m not sure they didn’t cause hurt more then they ever helped and a few were just nasty mean and borderline abusive. Or drunk, as I later realized one, possibly two, of mine that preferred the negative reinforcement approach were over the years.
But you could make up a chart with gold stars for doing barn work or something like that for all the kids to participate in, after running it by all parents.
These days, kids can have numerous things going on at home you don’t know about, regardless of what parents share. Non custodial or shared custody parents make that worse if there are any. See more parents who simply cannot discipline their own kids, asking store clerks or food servers to tell the child to stop. Today’s trainer has to be far more careful in their direct dealings with children, especially very young ones. There could be legal complications too.
I work directly with the public and volunteer where children are present, for both I had to take several computer based courses, about an hour each, dealing with how to approach dealing with children in a way that avoids any legal complications. Give that some thought too, want to avoid any misconceptions by either parent or, more importantly, the child.
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I’m sorry - this kid didn’t just get that way overnight. She is the way she is because she is being allowed to behave that way by the parents. I think mom may be majorly downplaying the attitude problem. I bet she gives them plenty of 'tude at home. And they let her.
I also think that giving her chores such as cleaning stalls would only increase the resentment and disrespect towards the animals. Any kid making any kind of threat or performing any actions that would be considered cruel are OTD with me.
Riding IS a privilege and she is abusing it.
Again, sorry - I would fire this kid until she can behave. But that’s me - I have no patience with that kind of crap.
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