Kick her out of your lesson program before she hurts a horse and the horse hurts her back.
If her mom asks why you’ve kicked her out of the program, tell her what you’ve told us.
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Or the OP could just fire the kid as a client and not worry about all that stuff. Seriously. It really doesn’t matter why the kid is acting the way she is, the OP is not a psychologist with a need to figure out the problem. She’s the child’s horseback riding instructor, nothing more. Why should she re-arrange her program or spend multiple (unpaid) hours trying to figure out to deal with this child?
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(Bolding mine). I do not think you can separate the two. If she has no respect for you, I don’t see how she will respect anything on your property including the horses.
I am another one that thinks you should explain to the parents why the child is no longer welcome on the property and what needs to change before she can come back.
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Well, I’m glad that your horses are your number one priority. Certainly, a conversation with mom is in order. Mom needs to know why she isn’t riding, at the very least. And I would not let her ride again until she has a better understanding of horses as living creatures. My guess is that when you tell mom, mom will say “oh, she was just kidding…” Ummm… NO.
I’m not sure farm chores are the way to go. It’s totally possible this kid doesn’t want to be there, in which case, stop lessons. If she does want to ride, then I think it’s important to distinguish whether her attitude is a bad behavior or a bad mindset. I guess I’m saying that a lack of understand should not be punished, but changed, while a bad behavior, that she knows is wrong, is something that would be punished.
I like the idea of having the kid WATCH lessons. She can see how other kids her own age, and older girls, treat their mounts. Another idea would be bringing the kid to a local rescue to see horses that have not been treated properly. That might open her eyes that horses are living, breathing creatures, like us, not tools or toys.
Good luck.
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Back in the 1970s at the Kentucky State Fair and Horse Show I remember how easy it was to identify the Helen Crabtree riders… those saddle seat equitation classes would have hundreds of kids… one class had over 300 entries… the show management cut the up into groups of 20 or 25 riders at a time to narrow down the riders… even in the warm-up ring you could identify the Crabtree riders by the way the conducted themselves… they were in her model
This eight year old girl represents your riding program…like it or not…
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I agree with every other poster. Kick the kid out of your program. It is not your responsibility to change this child’s behavior. I don’t understand why you would even try to help this kid, especially if she made threats against a horse.
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Count me as disturbed that an eight-year-old girl said something so serious as to be construed as a threat towards your horse, OP. If it were me that kid would be gone, not allowed near my horses. Consider it this way: if she was older, like a teenager, and said the same thing (whatever it was) would you be trying to help her this much?
I would just tell the Mom that the kid is no longer welcome, full stop. Someone who is willing to make threats against animals does not belong around them. Who is to say that she won’t turn her words into actions? You can’t watch her every minute.
Empathy is an essential part of riding, in my experience. They are living, breathing, thinking creatures. If they aren’t understanding something, we need to find a different way to communicate. Someone without any empathy would just think “stupid horse isn’t listening!” versus the truth, which is the horse doesn’t understand, and they are a farm animal and we are humans, so it is up to us to find a different way. (That isn’t to say that I think I am smarter than my horse, because she has saved my butt a fair few times and I think she is better at her job than I am at mine, lol).
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OP needs to tell mom to remove her 8 year old from the program. Not “work with the parents” she’s not a counselor with intimate knowledge of the kids surroundings and hone situation with training to spot and deal with various learning challenges that can complicate bratty behavior. She doesn’t get paid enough to assume that responsibility. It sounds like the little kid just does not want to be there but gets dragged along with her brother.
Pretty common in families with more then one kid riding or participating in the same sport-one is better at it or likes it more then the other, the one that isn’t as good resents it. Parents need to find her her something else without the brother.
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You’re being paid to teach riding lessons.
You’re not being paid to be a special needs teacher.
Nor a psychologist.
Sure, it’d be great to take this girl “under your wing” so to speak, talk to her and figure her out, and cause a magical miracle change in her behavior.
But it’s really not likely to happen, and it’s really not your problem.
Drop her as a student. Her parents can find her real, appropriate help for her behavior issues.
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I taught a lot of difficult kids, and a fair number of special needs kids, but I would not put up with this.
My teaching mentor had a wonderful method. She was the rare horseperson who never lost her temper and never yelled. If she had a kid who wouldn’t (wouldn’t - not couldn’t or didn’t understand - actual defiance.) follow instructions, she would call them into the center of the ring and explain quietly that if they couldn’t follow instructions, she couldn’t let them ride her horses. Then she gave a few moments to think about it, and just as quietly would say “If you think you can follow direction now, you may rejoin the lesson. If you can’t, please dismount.”
I also heard her discuss this with an angry parent who discovered little Suzy had sat out her riding lesson and in the same careful, quiet tone she explained how she can’t keep students safe on horseback if they won’t follow her instructions, and safety of the students and horses was her first responsibility.
But that’s really beside the point, because the situation you’re describing is way more than the standard kid testing the instructor’s boundaries. If the kid said something like “I hate this horse. I want to break its legs.” or worse, that’s a deal breaker.
I fired a difficult student once. She was a bit of diva, and didn’t like doing the required work off the horse. I had a lesson scheduled right after hers; and when she was finished, I gave her detailed instructions for cooling out and putting the horse away.
Came up to the barn later and found hot, sweaty horse standing in a stall with a clear saddle and bridle mark. Called the parents and told them not to bring her back, and why. The end.
Ask yourself how long a soccer, gymnastics, baseball or football coach would tolerate this behavior and continue the coaching the kid. And that’s without a helpless animal involved in the equation!
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I agree with others that sometimes a child just isn’t a “good fit” (to be tactful) for a riding program or even for riding in general. And I also agree that you are a riding instructor, not a therapist with experience handling disturbed children (unless you are and you failed to mention that part) and that this child’s behavioral issues might be beyond what a riding instructor should reasonably be expected to deal with.
But having said that, if you should choose to continue trying to work with this child, I have some thoughts. Sometimes very “bad” children are caught in a cycle of negativity. Either they have learned to use misbehavior to get attention and are willing to endure punishment in that regard, or have endured such suffering/frequent punishments in other aspects of their life that they simply aren’t motivated by punishment.
Either way, some “bad” kids see punishment as inevitable and are not good at changing their behavior to avoid so called “consequences.” IMO punishment and “consequences” are generally pretty ineffective teaching methods for kids, horses, dogs etc anyway. So, given that, the alternative is to use positive reinforcement or rewards for good behavior.
Using positive reinforcement is tricky sometimes. You have to think a little creatively at first. I’m sure you know the kid and your situation better than us. So I think that you could say something like, “for today’s lesson we are going to learn how to scrub water buckets. If you scrub out X number of water buckets properly, you can ride Dobbin for the rest of the lesson.” Then once the kid gets on the horse, I would say, “Ok, today’s goal is to learn how to do (for example) two point position, and to be polite and respectful for 15 minutes. If you can do that, you can feed the horse a treat afterwards (or whatever, have a sticker, have a cookie from the lounge).”
Aside from the positive reinforcement, if the child does anything that “crosses the line” whether it is rudeness to you or making threats to the horse, I would react by simply immediately ending the lesson. Just say, “Oh, I’m sorry honey, the lesson is over, it’s time to get off, I’ll see you later.” I would let the parents know of this policy in advance and make sure that they are prepared for one or two lessons that might end early. Oh, and I would charge your full rate no matter what time the lesson ends (and discuss this with the parents).
No matter what method you use, you and your horses are not this child’s emotional (or literal) punching bags that can be hired to be verbally abused or threatened. I don’t care if the student is 8 or 80, that’s not okay and it is your prerogative–in fact I’d say your duty–to end the lesson immediately. Don’t get emotional, don’t dole out punishments–It’s also not your job to get sucked into dealing with issues that are out of the league of a riding instructor.
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I just wanted to say i would like to ‘like’ this more than once!
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I think you are taking on way more than you need to, OP. You sound really compassionate but these things usually don’t work out, no matter how hard you try.
You are a riding teacher, let others teach her what she is missing then maybe she can try again in a year or 2.
There will always be another student, you can’t “save them all”
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When I was younger, I had a group lesson every week. One girl was disrespectful to both the instructor and the horse and she had to ride a stick horse for quite some time before she was allowed back on a horse. The instructor made her trot, extended trot, lope, lead change, back up etc. It was kind of entertaining. If she pulls the “you can’t make me attitude” tell her that she can’t get back on a real horse until she shows respect to the stick horse and shows you everything that she actually has learned. If she can’t do that, there is no desire to actually ride and I would say goodbye.
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Ehhh, see, I don’t think singling out an 8 year old and putting them on public display where they look like a fool to their peer group as a teaching tool is the best way to deal with this. On several levels. Mouthy 14 year old, maybe, but just removing them from the program is much easier.
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I thought she had a private lesson. I don’t think “public shame” is the answer, but that’s just how it happened to the person I used to ride with.
I’ve been following ‘this thread with interest, and OP, you sound like a kind and compassionate person! I would still count myself among those who would not risk my animals’ welfare and would not continue with her in the program.
The thing with consequences is that they assume that the person has the skill and that the issue is motivational (if they consequences are dire enough, they’ll do/refrain from doing it.) And in many cases that is the case (I’ve had plenty of clients who say they “can’t control” their t empers but amazingly have never slugged their POs, a police officer, a CO or anyone else who could really hurt them!) However, not always the case (ADHD comes to mind–we can use a range of stiffer and stiffer consequences–I got this as a kid) but the issue is NOT motivational. I could NOT stay on task!) And sometimes it really is a knowledge deficit- you could threaten me with having to eat liver but I still could not reassemble a car engine! 
With this kiddo, it might be the skill of emotional regulation–managing her anger/fear/frustration, etc), certainly a skill we want kids to get better and better at (and we can tell the adults who seems to have missed that skill!!) Obviously, she doesn’t have it — > frustration gets taken out on you or the horse. That actually is something horses CAN teach, but they are also vulnerable to those who haven’t learned/aren’t able to learn, some degree of regulation.
As I said, you sound very kind hearted and are probably a great teacher! We just don’t know all the things going on with her and her issues may be well beyond what a riding program could offer,
Regardless, good luck!
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If you insist on keeping her as a student, consider asking her questions. “How do you think this horse feels about you when you do that?” “What are you telling people about you when you ______?” “Why are you here?” Ect. Sometimes they are really oblivious and you can point out that they are coming off as a Jackhole, and that the impression they are giving others might not be what they think. And make her answer. Seriously, give it a minute and make her frame a thoughtful response. Try to show her examples of how the more someone knows, the less they try to tell you about it.
also, older students can be helpful. Kids tend to listen to a slightly older kid and try to model that behavior. I taught high school art for many years and seating the squirrely freshman with a couple of seniors who would shut her down for acting like a fool was gold.
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All of this. The student’s issues are parenting issues. You need to fire her as a client and tactfully tell mom that it’s because the child is rude and you feel that she could become a danger to herself or the horses while at the barn. It’s up to the parents and the child to work on it and decide where to go. Not you. I understand that you want to be a role model to this kid, but it’s not really your place. Protect your horses and your business and let them go.
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Have a real tight serious talk with the parent. Follow it up with a serious talk with the girl, parent, possibly barn owner? Make sure to list the consequences of her actions and if possible try to get to the bottom of the cause. Find the root of the problem but keep her off the horses for her and their safety.
End note. YOU ARE PAID TO TEACH HER TO RIDE SAFELY. NOT TO TOLERATE HER UNACCEPTABLE RUDE BEHAVIOR. Kudos to you for at least trying to start standing up to her behavior for everyone’s sake.
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