What to do with disrespectful students?

I’m not 100% sure what you mean by disrespecting the horses. My trainer doesn’t tolerate disrespect in any way. If you can’t groom before and after your lesson and do it well you don’t ride. She will tell you in a heart beat “that pony is hundreds of pounds bigger than you and could easily hurt you or even kill you and he chooses not to he deserves to be groomed and after the lesson he has worked hard for you and you should reward him and thank him”. I have also heard her tell students that if they kick or jerk in the horses mouth that she will make them get off.

Instead of making the cleaning of stalls or tack punishment could you make her earn her ride time? for instance possibly have a chart with chores that give rewards. So cleaning a saddle and bridle will get her 5 minutes of ride time. She gets 5 minutes of ride time for each stall cleaned. 2 minutes for each water bucket cleaned and filled? 10 minutes of ride time for bathing a horse. 5 minutes of ride time for pulling a mane. Make her earn her lessons. So if your lessons are 30 minutes she can choose how she earns it. so cleaning 6 stalls would earn her a 30 minute lesson. Possibly even list special chores like helping to bring horses in and feed will earn her the horse/pony of her choosing during her next lesson.

“Earning ride time” = paying for lessons.

I’d be really annoyed as a parent if I paid for riding lessons and my kid had to “earn” it, too, by cleaning tack and stalls. Either teach this student, or don’t teach this student.

Every program has difficult students, whether it’s riding or swimming or Mathletes. The trainer has to set the appropriate tone, and hold kids accountable. It has to be reasonable, taking into account that these are kids, but it doesn’t mean that anyone can do it, no matter what their behavior.

In this case I’d probably speak to the child first, then the parents, and/or together to make sure everyone is on the same page. Describe the issues, and why they are a problem. And give the kid an “out” if they really don’t want to be there. If they do, they have to follow the rules, at least as reasonably as all the other 8 year olds do.

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She’s 8, not 14. She’s not really old enough to do any of this without supervision or certainly not big enough to handle stall cleaning tools or dump and rehang water buckets. Coming early will be up to Mom…so, again, this goes back to the parent and it is with the parent of such a young child OP needs to deal…don’t think Mom wants to come early to muck stalls and dump and clean water buckets,

All the kids ought to be wiping off a saddle and bridle after use, don’t single out an 8 year old. Who doesnt want to be there anyway.

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And this is exactly why I won’t teach kids. Yuck. Good luck, OP, whatever you decide. You are a saint to have gone this far.

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It will be very difficult to win this battle with the girl. If she wanted to ride, she would be happy to be at the barn. At her age, she would be driving her mom nuts to go and ride. She sounds like she doesn’t want to ride. You are not a psychologist, you teach kids to ride. There will be no magical moment that will turn this kid around. You do not want to see how far it will escalate, it won’t be worth it. Bow out now.

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OP I hope this has already been resolved but personally I’d call or email the mom and let her know that her daughter is not a fit for my program. You cannot force empathy. Even at 8 the drive to make a disconcerting threat about a horse is a major red flag. You are not a psychologist and the family will have no hesitation suing you if their child gets hurt because she doesn’t follow your instructions or is malicious towards a horse. If there are underlying issues like Oppositional Defiant Disorder she may be a better fit for a therapeutic riding program and in time see if she is ready to transition to a typical lesson program.

"Dear Mom,

I am set up to teach lessons to youth who are ready to learn. While riding the horse is often seen as the focus, my goal is to help my riders develop the horsemanship skills necessary to be true horsemen and women. At this time I do not feel that your daughter is ready to be in my program. I hand select my horses with care but they are still 1,200 lb animals. Safely handling and interacting with them requires respect and the ability to listen to a trainer in all situations without question when around a horse. Following my directions and rules is the foundation for ensuring that they have a safe and fun experience.

If you would like to try a lesson again this time next year I would be happy to revisit having her in my program. Please know that your son is still welcome to lesson with me. I have enjoyed working with your family and appreciate your understanding.

Best regards, OP"

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I’m curious to hear what comes of this from the OP.

I run a small but successful program where most of my business is from referrals and many of my students have been with me 6+ years (I’ve only been teaching in town for 8 years). I’ve never had one down right rude, but I’ve had a few with some anger issues or problems. Usually I’ve been successful helping students, but some I’ve referred to other local coaches because they simply did not fit with my program.

Here is my take, worth every penny you paid for it :wink:

A: Easy answer - drop the child as a client, keep brother, explain to parent that you simply cannot keep that attitude around. Explain that you would be willing to revisit in future, but at this time it cannot continue.

B: Make-Work Answer: Sit down with parent at scheduled meeting or phone call, no children. Explain behaviour including examples, be supportive of parent but firm that behaviour must change and quickly. Offer potential solution:
-child in private lessons only, shorter riding time and fully supervised by you at all time while getting ready and putting away. Child is not to be left alone on property and is not to linger before or after lessons. Threats mean there will be NO alone time with any horse.
-sit down conversation with child and parent in room, explaining in plain terms the behaviour that you have seen from child that has to stop, and recommend the behaviour that you should be seeing instead. Give examples of scenarios, language and actions so an 8 year old can understand, and be sure parent is ok but the conversation has to be led by you. this helps child see that parent respects you.
-reward the positives you see, and explain why they are positive "you just gave Spot a pat, that was nice of you’ or ‘you did a nice job asking Spot to back up properly. Good job correcting him when he tried to walk past the mounting block’ etc. I’d guess she is trying to show superiority as a way to build up her confidence, which is probably a smokescreen for a little girl who is afraid and lacks self confidence. Give her measurable goals like riding a pole course, telling the correct posting diagonal 3 out of 5 tries, tacking up on her own etc and let her know she did a good job. Then when she demonstrates ability - let her do it. Supervise tacking up but do not help. Supervise her getting the pony from the field, but do not help, etc. Tell her ‘I know you can do it, and I know its hard. But keep trying and I bet you can do it on your own’. Put poles down in the arena, have her ride a pole course you make up, then have her make up her own. It will start to give her confidence in actual skills vs the All Talk approach she seems to have going on now
-set goals that are measurable like the child using please/thank you, patting the pony, asking you for help etc and after you see positive behaviour in so many lessons, allow child to ride in group lesson again. Consider alternating between group and private to be sure behaviour improves in both settings as an ‘audience’ might be a factor.

If parents are not the cause and are on board with the solutions, it shouldn’t be too big an issue to correct and the parents should be grateful for your help. But that is assuming they are not part of the problem…

EEEEGADS NO. Do not humiliate any 8 year old for cripes sake. NOOOOO.

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My guess is we won’t hear a follow-up from the OP.

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Agreed!