What would you do? Plus suggestions on bits vs bitless

[Nariah01]

So I don’t have a specific discipline so I decided to post this here, if its wrong it can be moved.

My horse Dolce is coming back into work from a few year break and I am re-thinking tack before I get back on. In the past we always rode her in her rope halter, and occasionally we would borrow my trainers bosal. We have since moved and I am wondering if something else might be better then her rope halter for this.

I would prefer a bitless bridle of some kind, and I will explain why in a minute, but I see a lot of different kinds of bitless bridles, bosals and hackamores and don’t know very much about them all.

Now here comes the reason I need to find something for her and can’t just stick any old bit in her mouth. She has an old injury from before she was rescued, he tongue is literally split in half almost, there is a giant cut that goes over half way through her tongue. And she also has some nerve damage around her nose. In the past I have tried a French link snaffle, with very light hands, but it seemed to bother her, so we went back to the halter.

So if anyone has any suggestions for a different bit that may work I am open to them. Or if people could chime in on which bitless bridles may be a good option in her case.

TIA for any help, Dolce thanks you too!

[Jackie_Cochran]

I’ll try to help. I can see why you are reluctant to use a bit!

I have two favored bitless bridles.

Cross-unders can be great IF your horse does not mind some poll pressure and the “whole head hug” feeling. Most riding in a cross-under does not have to involve poll pressure, the lower jaw bones where the cross-under goes are very sensitive, I often give rein aids by just tweaking my little finger (along with leg and seat aids if necessary.)

Nurtural bitless cross-under bridles are pretty fool-proof, but the release from a dead pull is not instantaneous. You can see it at http://nurturalhorse.com.

The Spirit Bridle bitless cross-under has a GREAT release, but be sure to order one with shortened (regular length) reins you can see it at frontierequestrian.com. The horses seem to like the rounded cross-unders of the Spirit bridle because it gives a easily felt signal with immediate release. All Cross-unders work best with light hands.

The Light Rider bitless works by a chin strap that goes through rings on the head-piece onto the reins. It is a modified Scawbrig. You can see it at naturalhorseworld.com. This is a kind bitless, again best used with light hands.

Have fun figuring out the best bitless for your horse!

[Nariah01]

[QUOTE=Jackie Cochran;7831600]
I’ll try to help. I can see why you are reluctant to use a bit!

I have two favored bitless bridles.

Cross-unders can be great IF your horse does not mind some poll pressure and the “whole head hug” feeling. Most riding in a cross-under does not have to involve poll pressure, the lower jaw bones where the cross-under goes are very sensitive, I often give rein aids by just tweaking my little finger (along with leg and seat aids if necessary.)

Nurtural bitless cross-under bridles are pretty fool-proof, but the release from a dead pull is not instantaneous. You can see it at http://nurturalhorse.com.

The Spirit Bridle bitless cross-under has a GREAT release, but be sure to order one with shortened (regular length) reins you can see it at frontierequestrian.com. The horses seem to like the rounded cross-unders of the Spirit bridle because it gives a easily felt signal with immediate release. All Cross-unders work best with light hands.

The Light Rider bitless works by a chin strap that goes through rings on the head-piece onto the reins. It is a modified Scawbrig. You can see it at naturalhorseworld.com. This is a kind bitless, again best used with light hands.

Have fun figuring out the best bitless for your horse![/QUOTE]

Thanks for the reply. Yeah I don’t know if the bit actually hurts her with the way her mouth is or if its more a memory thing, but either way I just feel terrible putting anything in her mouth. I think as a result to whatever happened to her to cause that injury she can be a bit not head shy but she doesn’t particularly like people putting things on her head. She will let us with gentle consistent work, but she is not happy about it. Its a work in progress, but do you think a cross over would be ok in that situation, since it puts pressure on the poll? I will check out the websites of both to see if there are videos and such to watch. If I can see how they work I might have a better idea which would work well for her.

Also she is technically my husbands horse, although he hasn’t ridden in a while he would like to get back on again. He is a beginner at best, although he is very gentle and light he doesn’t have a whole lot of experience riding. Obviously I would be there with him and would be teaching him how to be gentle and light in the hands. However do you think either of those options would be too much for someone who is still learning? I just don’t want to set us backwards if I find something that works for her.

[Jackie_Cochran]

For a beginner I would pick the Nurtural cross-under. You can get these in nylon strapping, beta, and leather. The reason it is more fool-proof for a beginner is that the cross-under straps go through a leather disk–this prevents the cross-under straps from twisting up. The ones I have also have rubber where the noseband sits on the face. But YOU should do the first riding with this gear, to explain the new “language” to the horse. This is the bitless bridle I would choose to put on a horse that has a beginning level rider.

The second one I’d try is the Light Rider, especially if your horse objects to the Nurtural. Again you can get these in rope, beta, and leather, they even have a noseband you can put on a regular bridle. If you go the non-leather route you can get one of each for the price of a decent leather bridle. That way you and you husband could go riding bitless together!

As for the bit–I love riding with bits because the horse and I can have a good conversation from my finger to the horse’s tongue. Since your horse’s tongue is so mangled it does not seem to me that a rider could get this type of conversation with a bit. I would start off bitless and probably never even try a bit because it sounds to me like she would never ENJOY having a bit in her mouth.

Of course lead her around first to introduce her to the different feel for the turning hand aids and for the halting hand aids. Work on getting a response from a light signal, this will help avoid nose pressure since the horse can feel the signals on the bottom of her jaw bones. Don’t do a dead pull, give the aid, release, and re-apply the aid if needed, and reward ANY indication that she understands what you are communicating to her.

[Appsolute]

Personally I do not like any of the cross over or “squeeze the whole head” types of bridles. They create many pressure points - nose, chin, jaw, poll. I have never ridden a horse bitless (and I have ridden a good number of horses bit-less) that needed so much pressure to control them.

I also personally believe all of these pressure points muddy communication. A pull on the right rein puts pressure under the jaw, on the left cheek and the poll.

I much prefer a direct pressure bit-less bridle, and I have been able to practice dressage and trail ride extensively with them. I find with a direct pressure - like a side pull, or english hackamore I am able to get the horse working over its back and through “to the bit” (or to the bridle in this case). I am also able to ride “in contact” with these types of bridles. Something I would not want to do in a Cook’s or like type bridle due to their “squeeze” action.

I start all of my horses bitless. And had an event horse with mouth injuries - we did much of our dressage and jumping practice bitless.

Here is a standard side pull - No leverage, no moving parts. Pressure is applied to the bridge of the nose - and communication is clear and similar to a bit.

Here is an english hackamore. Basically the same action as a side pull - but they tend to be more padded.

If I need more control - I would reach for an S Hackamore. This would be my go to if more control is needed (like when I am galloping a fit TB cross country). This is still direct pressure - but you DO have leverage, and pressure will be placed on the chin and the poll in addition to the bridge of the nose.

[Nariah01]

[QUOTE=Jackie Cochran;7831703]
For a beginner I would pick the Nurtural cross-under. You can get these in nylon strapping, beta, and leather. The reason it is more fool-proof for a beginner is that the cross-under straps go through a leather disk–this prevents the cross-under straps from twisting up. The ones I have also have rubber where the noseband sits on the face. But YOU should do the first riding with this gear, to explain the new “language” to the horse. This is the bitless bridle I would choose to put on a horse that has a beginning level rider.

The second one I’d try is the Light Rider, especially if your horse objects to the Nurtural. Again you can get these in rope, beta, and leather, they even have a noseband you can put on a regular bridle. If you go the non-leather route you can get one of each for the price of a decent leather bridle. That way you and you husband could go riding bitless together!

As for the bit–I love riding with bits because the horse and I can have a good conversation from my finger to the horse’s tongue. Since your horse’s tongue is so mangled it does not seem to me that a rider could get this type of conversation with a bit. I would start off bitless and probably never even try a bit because it sounds to me like she would never ENJOY having a bit in her mouth.

Of course lead her around first to introduce her to the different feel for the turning hand aids and for the halting hand aids. Work on getting a response from a light signal, this will help avoid nose pressure since the horse can feel the signals on the bottom of her jaw bones. Don’t do a dead pull, give the aid, release, and re-apply the aid if needed, and reward ANY indication that she understands what you are communicating to her.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the input on those again. My plan was to bring her back into work myself so I can get her going well again under saddle and get her muscle built up again and then have him get on and I would help him from the ground. He is a heavier rider and she right now doesn’t have the muscle to carry him. Plus I would want to get her used to a new bridle first anyways, it wouldn’t be fair to anyone to throw a bitless bridle on and him and not teach her how to use it first.

I prefer using a longer rein and have light hands, I have to with my other horse who is super sensitive to the bit, so it transfers to all the horses I ride. I just figured going to an actual bitless bridle would be better then her halter as far as aids go.

[Nariah01]

[QUOTE=Appsolute;7831704]
Personally I do not like any of the cross over or “squeeze the whole head” types of bridles. They create many pressure points - nose, chin, jaw, poll. I have never ridden a horse bitless (and I have ridden a good number of horses bit-less) that needed so much pressure to control them.

I also personally believe all of these pressure points muddy communication. A pull on the right rein puts pressure under the jaw, on the left cheek and the poll.

I much prefer a direct pressure bit-less bridle, and I have been able to practice dressage and trail ride extensively with them. I find with a direct pressure - like a side pull, or english hackamore I am able to get the horse working over its back and through “to the bit” (or to the bridle in this case). I am also able to ride “in contact” with these types of bridles. Something I would not want to do in a Cook’s or like type bridle due to their “squeeze” action.

I start all of my horses bitless. And had an event horse with mouth injuries - we did much of our dressage and jumping practice bitless.

Here is a standard side pull - No leverage, no moving parts. Pressure is applied to the bridge of the nose - and communication is clear and similar to a bit.

Here is an english hackamore. Basically the same action as a side pull - but they tend to be more padded.

If I need more control - I would reach for an S Hackamore. This would be my go to if more control is needed (like when I am galloping a fit TB cross country). This is still direct pressure - but you DO have leverage, and pressure will be placed on the chin and the poll in addition to the bridge of the nose.[/QUOTE]

Interesting, so do you find that the cross over type bridles cause confusion with the horses you have ridden them in? I was wondering about picking up contact with something like a cross over, although I shouldn’t need to it is nice to know whether I even could without causing an issue. It is always nice to hear both sides.

I also suppose a standard side pull would probably be a lot more I guess safe with someone who would be considered a beginner. Are there any side pull brands you prefer, or does it not really matter with something like this? Also is there any that offer just the nose piece as I do have two bridles for her already that I could use.

Also last question do you have a preference as to whether you use a side pull or an English hackamore? Or does it not really matter?

[Nariah01]

[QUOTE=Appsolute;7831704]
Personally I do not like any of the cross over or “squeeze the whole head” types of bridles. They create many pressure points - nose, chin, jaw, poll. I have never ridden a horse bitless (and I have ridden a good number of horses bit-less) that needed so much pressure to control them.

I also personally believe all of these pressure points muddy communication. A pull on the right rein puts pressure under the jaw, on the left cheek and the poll.

I much prefer a direct pressure bit-less bridle, and I have been able to practice dressage and trail ride extensively with them. I find with a direct pressure - like a side pull, or english hackamore I am able to get the horse working over its back and through “to the bit” (or to the bridle in this case). I am also able to ride “in contact” with these types of bridles. Something I would not want to do in a Cook’s or like type bridle due to their “squeeze” action.

I start all of my horses bitless. And had an event horse with mouth injuries - we did much of our dressage and jumping practice bitless.

Here is a standard side pull - No leverage, no moving parts. Pressure is applied to the bridge of the nose - and communication is clear and similar to a bit.

Here is an english hackamore. Basically the same action as a side pull - but they tend to be more padded.

If I need more control - I would reach for an S Hackamore. This would be my go to if more control is needed (like when I am galloping a fit TB cross country). This is still direct pressure - but you DO have leverage, and pressure will be placed on the chin and the poll in addition to the bridge of the nose.[/QUOTE]

BTW I love your horse! Very nice picture indeed!

[CHT]

I had a cross under bridle a while ago for lesson horses and because I thought it would be good for training. I didn’t like it as I think it has too much potential to hurt (drag a strap across the underside of your jaw…it hurts!), and horses don’t listen to pain well. I ended up just snapping the reins to the side rings and using it like a side pull instead. Now I use a soft nosed, short shanked hack for my lesson horse, with a leather (not chain) curb. A side pull or little S hack (pad the noseband/curb strap) might also be a good option.

[Simkie]

[QUOTE=Appsolute;7831704]
Here is a standard side pull - No leverage, no moving parts. Pressure is applied to the bridge of the nose - and communication is clear and similar to a bit. [/QUOTE]

That’s a really nice looking side pull! I’ve only ever come across the rope ones. Where did you turn that up?

[csaper58]

www.halfcircleranch.com

they have several styles of side pulls, english/western hackamores, and rope halter/bridles. They can advise you on any of their products.

I’m with Simke, where is the pretty side pull from?

[Nariah01]

[QUOTE=csaper58;7832061]
www.halfcircleranch.com

they have several styles of side pulls, english/western hackamores, and rope halter/bridles. They can advise you on any of their products.

I’m with Simke, where is the pretty side pull from?[/QUOTE]

I forgot they carried those too, that is where we got her rope halter from. I will have to check out there selection.

[Appsolute]

[QUOTE=Simkie;7831971]
That’s a really nice looking side pull! I’ve only ever come across the rope ones. Where did you turn that up?[/QUOTE]

That particular one was from a google image search (so I am not sure who sells it!).

But I too prefer a leather rather than rope side pull. This is very similar to the one I have used:

http://www.statelinetack.com/item/tory-english-bridle-leather-nose-side-pull/E001199/

Here is a nice biothane one:

http://www.twohorsetack.com/p-109-sidepull-bitless-bridle-made-from-leather.aspx

To the OP - I would NOT ride a horse “in contact” in a cross over. Any pressure on the reins means pressure on the poll, side of the cheeks (on the opposite of the head of the rein that has contact :no: ) and the sensitive jaw bones. A side pull puts pressure only on the bridge of the nose - and in my experience, many horses are happy to travel with that “contact”.

[Foxtrot_s]

There is a very nice looking bitless bridle by Dressage Naturally - for $179.00.

It has a bit of an English look to it, tho.

I do not like the ones with the cross-over under the chin - they can rub and do not release very well.

[stb]

My horse has the very same injury. I ride Western, and when I bought him he was being ridden in a short shank curb bit, with a tiny bit of fussiness occassionally. I put him in a Myler bit, short shank, with an MB 33 mouthpiece. This mouthpiece offers the most tongue relief of any Myler bit. He loves this bit, and has no fussiness with it whatsoever.

Myler also offers the same mouthpiece in a snaffle, in case you ride English.

I will say that I do not ride my guy with any bit contact. He is well trained and he works off my legs and seat, on a very loose rein. I’m not sure if would be as happy if he were ridden with contact, since his tongue is so damaged.

[BEARCAT]

[QUOTE=Appsolute;7831704]

Here is an english hackamore. Basically the same action as a side pull - but they tend to be more padded.

.[/QUOTE]

Not a fan of crossovers either. I just use the one linked above.

[Nariah01]

[QUOTE=Appsolute;7832098]
That particular one was from a google image search (so I am not sure who sells it!).

But I too prefer a leather rather than rope side pull. This is very similar to the one I have used:

http://www.statelinetack.com/item/tory-english-bridle-leather-nose-side-pull/E001199/

Here is a nice biothane one:

http://www.twohorsetack.com/p-109-sidepull-bitless-bridle-made-from-leather.aspx

To the OP - I would NOT ride a horse “in contact” in a cross over. Any pressure on the reins means pressure on the poll, side of the cheeks (on the opposite of the head of the rein that has contact :no: ) and the sensitive jaw bones. A side pull puts pressure only on the bridge of the nose - and in my experience, many horses are happy to travel with that “contact”.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for the feedback on the whole contact issue. I don’t usually ride her with any contact, she much prefers a loose rein, In fact the only time I think I have ever used contact on her was doing a one rein stop during a lesson.

[Nariah01]

So it seems like the common consensus is that the cross-under bridles are not as great as far as what most people like. So that being said I am down to a basic side-pull or the light rider bridle. So out of the two what do you guys think? I know with the light rider bridle I can get just the nose piece and add it to one of her bridles that I already have which is a plus. Out of the side pull options do you think I could get anything to add to one of her bridles to make it into a side pull?

[Appsolute]

I am talking about the type of “contact” used in dressage type schooling (but in just about all english riding styles as well), a light but mostly steady pressure, that when used correctly with a driving leg will encourage the horse to work properly over their back - to bring the hind legs up and under themselves, and travel in balance with the rider - very different than a one rein stop!

Here are two examples of horses working “on a contact” and bitless:

Horse one

Horse two

But if your horse is “light” I still think all you would need is a side pull or an english hackamore. Just REALLY not a fan of the boa constrictor type action of a cross over. I don’t know why you would want poll pressure - and pressure on the left jaw when you ask the horse to go right.

[Nariah01]

[QUOTE=Appsolute;7832314]
I am talking about the type of “contact” used in dressage type schooling (but in just about all english riding styles as well), a light but mostly steady pressure, that when used correctly with a driving leg will encourage the horse to work properly over their back - to bring the hind legs up and under themselves, and travel in balance with the rider - very different than a one rein stop!

Here are two examples of horses working “on a contact” and bitless:

Horse one

Horse two

But if your horse is “light” I still think all you would need is a side pull or an english hackamore. Just REALLY not a fan of the boa constrictor type action of a cross over. I don’t know why you would want poll pressure - and pressure on the left jaw when you ask the horse to go right.[/QUOTE]

I figured that is what you meant by contact, I was just pointing out in my previous post that I usually ride with little to no contact, guess it didn’t quite come out right. But thank you for the pictures and trying to clarify, you have been very helpful in my search for a bitless solution for my Dolce.