What would you do with this horse? UPDATE page 50

[summerfield]

Hello,

Looking for advice on the next steps to take with my 8 year old QH gelding.

The backstory: Began tripping last February. Diagnosed navicular. Tried all of the following with no results: Previcox, Osphos, coffin joint injections, Isoxsuprine, aluminums, wedge pads. Horse was out of work June, July, and August when tripping became so bad it was dangerous to ride him. Pulled shoes. 2 months later, horse comes sound. Was worked Sept- Mid March approx 3 days a week for 30-40 minutes.

3 weeks ago, horse is lame again. Farrier comes out, does hoof testers, says he would put shoes on him, horse has thin soles. Put shoes on this week. Horse is visibly lame at walk (stabbing toes in ground, pointing, tripping under saddle). Recommends rocker shoes if regular shoes don’t work.

Let me be honest. in full disclosure. I am really tired of getting my hopes up. I am a one-horse owner. I live in a land scarce area where board is high. I want to ride lower-level dressage. I drained my savings trying to get this horse sound last year, and I am emotionally drained. I’ve only owned this horse for 1.5 years, and he’s been lame for at least half that time. I want this issue resolved within the next 6 months, maximum.

So I have options in my head- let me know what you think.

1. Try rocker shoes, and if they don’t work, pull shoes again and try an experienced barefoot trimmer. I feel like his frog has atrophied with this farrier, and I feel like the farrier trims too much frog/sole for a barefoot horse. I am reluctant to abandon the barefoot route just yet, because it is the only thing I have seen any improvement with.

2. Retire horse down south.

3. Send horse to cheap pasture board for a year. This would would probably be far enough that I would not be able to visit. Assess horse after one year.

4. Euthanize. I worry that if I retire him, he will trip in turnout and break something. Or be in constant pain.

5. Donate horse to university vet program. Maybe it will help another horse.

I would probably just lease-ride at a low-key barn for the time being. I don’t even want to take lessons at the barn I am at right now, because even though I love the trainer, it is so painful to lesson on a school horse and have your horse’s head hanging over the door. The “What might have been” is such a painful feeling for me. Anyone else feel this way? Is this a weird way to feel?

[S1969]

Have you switched farriers? I’d go back to thinking about what was working, and what changed. What happened to make the horse “go lame” again? It must have been something, if the horse was otherwise doing well for 6 months.

From what I understand from my own farrier, “navicular” is not a specific diagnosis. It is used as sort of a catch all term for a variety of possible issues. I assume you did xrays before this diagnosis - maybe you should do another set to see if things are changing?

[summerfield]

I did switch farriers in the summer ( I moved barns) The first farrier left his feet too long, which didn’t help. I do think this second farrier is better (he’s the barn farrier), but I don’t think his trim jobs are great for a barefoot horse. That’s why I’d like to try a “barefoot” person. It’s just real awkward to not want to use the barn farrier…

I did both x-rays and MRI. They showed bone damage/lesion. There was a lot of soft-tissue inflammation, but not a specific soft-tissue injury, per se. I will probably do more x-rays, if only to justify any decision I make.

[WNT]

What changed 3 weeks ago? Did he get trimmed around then? Changes in grass in turnout (if turned out)?

Has the same farrier been working on him while his shoes were pulled? Has a vet looked at or x-rayed the feet since he went lame again? Sorry for the fifth degree, but I’m just wondering if there was a sudden trigger, or a slow build-up to going lame.

My first thought is the farrier’s style does not jibe with your horse. Does he work closely with the vet and shoe from information gleaned from x-rays? You don’t necessarily have to use a barefoot specialist, but definitely someone with extensive corrective and supportive experience. Being capable of both shoes and barefoot is a big plus in my book.

I’m a big fan of Dr. Green (i.e. a year’s turnout), but he’s probably going to still need a sharp eye kept on his feet and soundness. If you can’t see him regularly, he’ll need someone who will.

[Simkie]

SO many “navicular syndrome” diagnoses are actually soft tissue injury in the hoof capsule. And they’re just a bear to diagnose short of an MRI They often require lengthy, specific rehab, often with a lot of stall rest and careful return to work. If that’s the case here, it’s not terribly surprising that he was sound with rest and then worsened with work. Entirely possible the soft tissue was mending and work aggravated whatever is wrong. Those things are SO finicky.

If you haven’t yet, I would get THE BEST diagnostician to evaluate him. Not just your local routine vet, but whoever is the hotshit lameness guy around. That person might be able to give you a better shoeing and rehab plan than you’ve had before. And could also help you find the hotshit farrier who is good with these cases.

If you’ve had the hotshot lameness guy in the loop on this, and you’ve not had any success, and can’t swing the bucks for an MRI (no shame there, they’re expensive!), I’d turnout for a year. Or euthanize. A horse that can’t even be ridden at the walk because he’s so lame is pretty danged lame No judgement here for deciding to let him go on a sunny day after a bucketful of carrots.

[summerfield]

He’s had the same farrier since his shoes were pulled, yes. I wonder, too, if it is a build-up or a trigger. The only trigger I could identify is that the grass is growing again. His turnout area is largely woods, but there is some grass. And about 6 weeks ago, we added grain to his diet because he was dropping weight. So, about two weeks ago, I changed his diet to a low-carb grain and magnesium, in case he is starch-sensitive.

As to a slow build-up, I’ve never been happy with the landing on his left front. I couldn’t quite get a heel-first landing, and I wonder if that was the key. I feel like maybe I should have worked him more in boots with pads to get that landing (I’m into the whole Rockley method).

[OneTwoMany]

@S1969

From what I understand from my own farrier, “navicular” is not a specific diagnosis. It is used as sort of a catch all term for a variety of possible issues. I assume you did xrays before this diagnosis - maybe you should do another set to see if things are changing?

This is true. Many abnormalities in the navicular apparatus can be loosely diagnosed as “navicular”. It might behoove you to get a more precise diagnosis from you vet and understand whether the issue can be resolved or it is a disease state that will only deteriorate and your best outlook is to manage the disease and slow its progression.

As a first step, try speaking with the attending vet and ask for a more specific diagnosis. Is the navicular bone diseased? Is the navicular bursa inflammed, etc. Then ask what is the prognosis and the recommended treatment. Armed with that additional bit of information do a google search and read up on his specific diagnosis and the therapies involved. Turnout and rest might be a treatment for some issues. Corrective shoeing may be a treatment for other issues. Once you know exactly what you are dealing with, it is easier to make an informed decision.

If you feel your current vet doesn’t have all the answers or his suggested courses of action are not working, do get a lameness specialist involved. An initial consult over the phone and a reading of the radiographs and MRI might run $100 and give you a lot of information to work with. Of course, if it is a complicated case, the specialist may need to perform more diagnostic work.

Whatever you decide, do try to resist the temptation to try random things on your own unless you clearly understand how they apply to your horse’s particular disease state. If you try X and all along you should have been trying Y, you may worsen his existing state and increase your level of frustration.

For whatever it is worth, our local clinic is great, but when soundness is involved, we always call in the lameness specialist right off the bat. It saves a lot of frustration and resources in the long run.

[Outyougo]

A few thoughts. Turn out for 6 months shoeless. Then re-evaluate using rocker shoes
lease a useful horse.

sometimes you must. Know when to hold em
know when to fold em
know when to walk away

honestly there may be a hard decision ahead. But if you want to ride that is likely the intelligent decision

[summerfield]

I’m sorry if it was unclear from my original post, but I did use a lameness specialist and and MRI. Lameness specialist said he has classic navicular disease. The most prominent findings on the MRI were enlarged vascular channels of the navicular bone and a lesion. Other findings include inflammation of nearly every soft-tissue part you can think of in the foot, including collateral, bursa, impar, DDFT, BUT the vet who did the MRI and my own lameness specialist said that the bone was the primary issue. (I’m looking at the MRI report right now).

The issue is that I did follow all of the recommendations: heel support, osphos, and injections. Horse just got lamer. Vet mentioned neurectomy as the next option.

Obviously I am going to do more rads, as it’s been a while, but I did get a diagnosis and I did try all of the treatments. That is why I am so frustrated. I don’t mean this to sound snarky, I’m just tired.

[OneTwoMany]

@summerfield

I’m sorry if it was unclear from my original post, but I did use a lameness specialist and and MRI. Lameness specialist said he has classic navicular disease. The most prominent findings on the MRI were enlarged vascular channels of the navicular bone and a lesion. Other findings include inflammation of nearly every soft-tissue part you can think of in the foot, including collateral, bursa, impar, DDFT, BUT the vet who did the MRI and my own lameness specialist said that the bone was the primary issue. (I’m looking at the MRI report right now).

The issue is that I did follow all of the recommendations: heel support, osphos, and injections. Horse just got lamer. Vet mentioned neurectomy as the next option.

Obviously I am going to do more rads, as it’s been a while, but I did get a diagnosis and I did try all of the treatments. That is why I am so frustrated. I don’t mean this to sound snarky, I’m just tired.

That is a lot of specific information that is very useful. Original post was a little vague on the diagnostic piece. Not taking your last post as being snarky, but it is useful as folks (like me) won’t be tempted to post suggestions you’ve already tried.

Sounds like you are willing to try shoeing changes, extended turnout, retirement, euthanasia or donation.

All sound like reasonable options. It is really a personal decision.

[2tempe]

OP - I have been in your place with a mare - different health issues but a multi year emotional roller coaster with lots of cash outlay. It sucks. Her latest in a string of problems is suspensory issues, both hinds, possibly degenerative. I threw in the towel at that point. Retired her immediately, moved her to a lower cost barn, she has special shoes but no other supportive care/meds for the problem. I want to know the minute she is uncomfortable, in the interim, no adequan, previcox or anything else. For now she is sassy and happy as a clam doing nothing but hangin’ w/ her girlfriends.

If something changes that could raise a euthanasia possibility, I would consider donating to a vet school for the reasons you raised.

Not much navicular knowledge but given your description of his problems, I would NOT do the neurectomy. I wouldn’t want to ride a horse w/ all that going on when they cant feel it - if it works. Second, the nerves can grow back after a time and you are back where you started from.

Last comment, which I sincerely believe: while we all want to do as much as possible for our horses, there is a huge amount of stress for YOU that comes from dealing with these ongoing situations and hoping things will get right. Once I made the retirement decision I can say that I felt a burden lifted off my shoulders.

[CHT]

I thought rocker shoes were for Laminitis, not navicular?

If you want to try a different farrier before making a harder decision, why not? As long as your barn allows it of course.

I am sorry you are having such a trying journey with your horse. It really sounds like you have gone above and beyond in trying to diagnosis and treat.

[PrincessPonies]

I have a mare with navicular. The ONLY thing that with keep her sound is a custom welded rocker shoe with a pad and VERY specific packing. If even one this is off then she’s lame. If the farrier is even two days late from when she is due she’s lame. I’ve been through over half a dozen farriers in two states getting ones that can weld the shoe correctly. I provide my own packing for the farrier so I know it’s not something she’s allergic to, that was a fun one to deal with. She’s sound and happy and before she got injured we were jumping 3’ so know there is hope.
If grass is starting and you just added grain I might check for founder, mine had a grass/sugar founder shortly after we got her due to a very wet season producing more green grass than normal.
The last thing I’ll add is that with the meds my horse grows a lot of frog and the farrier constantly has to trip it. I’m not sure if any of this helps but I wish you luck.

[right_horse_at_the_right_time]

Do a long distance consult with Stephen o’grady, vet and Farrier, in Virginia. Then decide.

[AKB]

I would get an evaluation by a vet school farrier. I think you have a diagnosis and have tried most of what vet med can offer. See if the specialty farrier can help. Maybe barefoot with boots would work. If this doesn’t work, I would retire him. If he isn’t reasonably sound while retired, I would euthanize him. We had two horses with navicular. Both stayed sound for many years after lots of vet intervention and visits to the vet hospital farrier. I know how hard this is.

[findeight]

You have tried everything except an extended rest to allow a complete regrow on the feet. A few months is not enough. If you can, pull the shoes again and turn him out for a year. Keep the feet trimmed on schedule.

And if he’s lame 3 weeks after shoeing…there’s another answer there. Those shoes and that trim aren’t helping anything. Personally, I’d explore a different farrier more experienced with barefoot trims on navicular horses,

Specialists are expensive but your board is going way down so it’s a wash. Don’t know that he’s ever coming back sound and he will always need top rate trims and maybe later shoes but he might be able to be a real nice trail horse or husband/ guest horse for somebody.

But turn him out and give it time with speciality farrier trims. Doesn’t sound like this current farrier is " the one". JMO but I would not have added shoes when he started coming up sore a few weeks ago, I’d have increased the down time and looked at the trim.

Weve had some of the ugliest threads over the years about barefoot trimmers, turned into “farrier wars” a time or two. Hate to suggest it but if it can stay civil, I think OP might consider exploring barefoot trimming and ask fir opinions on here, maybe recommendations. There are success stories out there concerning navicular horses improving using that approach. Now, he STILL needs a year off to try to heal as much as the condition will let him, he may still do better in special shoes with pads and it may not work at all.

But I’d explore that since all the stuff you’ve tried so far is not giving him any relief and he was comfortable without shoes until recently. Vets and many farriers tend to get complicated sometimes when back to basics is a better choice when other options have not worked.

Give it a shot and do some research to find ’ the one". Beware the BS but there’s some good info out there that might really help you out with this horse.

[summerfield]

Thanks Findeight. I will definitely need to explore well reputed trimmers in the area, awkwardness be damned at not using the barn farrier.

I wish I could say he could be someone’s husband horse one day, but he’s hot and spooky!

I’m going to go to the barn later and grab some pics of his feet. I appreciate all of the responses and options you’ve given me.

[NancyM]

He needs a functional frog to have a healthy foot. Do what you have to do to get his frog functional and healthy. That may be barefoot for a while, or a shoeing job that can get the frog functioning. But if he is too sore when barefoot to move at all, then you need shoes. Rolling the toes, either barefoot or shod can make a big difference for a horse with navicular issues. Rolling the toes eases the breakover, puts less pressure on the fulcrum of the navicular area in the heel. Don’t be afraid to try having his feet denerved, if you have tried everything else. It usually isn’t expensive to have this operation done, and can give him some extra years of use and pain free living. When the heel nerve is cut, the toe of the foot still has sensation in it, so it is not like the horse can not feel where his feet are, it is only the heel area that is numb. The nerves can grow back in time. But if you have improved the health of his feet and frog in the time that the nerve is disabled, things may be better in the long run.

Good luck.

[summerfield]

You’re right about the rest, although one thing that I realized today is that he became lame while off work. He was out of work all winter ( last winter) . Started tripping in the very first ride back in Feb. and never stopped. Was sound before that winter. What do you make of that?

[beau159]

You are in a tough spot.

What are your goals? You said you want to do dressage, correct?

Will you be able to achieve that with a horse that will probably always have a lameness problem? Probably not.

And you said you can only have one horse, correct?

Looking in with outsider eyes and no emotional connection, I would euth the horse and buy a different one suitable for your riding goals. Yes, you could give him more time and you could try more things, but the MRI doesn’t lie. He has pathology. And it is expensive to manage. Will he be sound enough to score well in dressage?

Either way, you don’t have an easy decision in front of you. But that’s my advice! hugs and good luck.