Personally i’d move him on. Your boarding so have that extra cost and horse is unusable for what you want. Put him down or sell him disclosing he’s lame. Plenty of sound healthy horses why have a heart break horse, sticking big $$$ in him for lame and can’t ride. One thing if you had him for many years and had many years of riding and fun. But at only a year and half cut your losses now, before you go broke trying to fix what might not be fixable.
Sorry your having to deal with this totally not fair.
I would also move on. Maintenance on a navicular horse is an expensive road that usually ends in heartbreak; ask me how I know. Working toward creating a situation where the horse is pasture sound and comfortably retired is, in my experience, a more realistic goal for a horse like yours than trying to get him sound for even lower level dressage.
Progression of the condition possibly complicated by an inappropriate trim. It doesn’t go away, all you can do is manage the damage. A proper trim by an experienced with navicular farrier and a vet with similar credentials MIGHT make the horse more comfortable and slow down the progression. While he needs to move, staying in light work does not help navicular as it does some soft tissue damage but sometimes allowing the hoof to go through a total regrowth with a correct for the condition trim improves the comfort of the horse. I know of several who were able to do some light work after a year or more of this regime.
I dunno, seems to me that vets and farriers get sucked into the lucrative business of expensive shoes, pads, experimental treatments and joint injections ( especially when insurance is picking some of it up) and sometimes don’t recommend the simpler actions that take much longer but don’t generate the big bills for their services. Hate to say it but think it’s true more often then it used to be when owners carried the costs and said “kiss” more often.
If you are interested in barefoot rehad, you need an actual barefoot specialist - not this farrier. Plus a vet who is experienced with (or at least open to) working with barefoot rehab case.
If it were me I would get a consult with a barefoot person who has experience with navicular cases, and decide based on their advice whether I would want to (and whether I realistically could) go down that path. If not, I would cut my losses and euthanise. I would not go the corrective shoeing route.
I’m very sorry you’re going through this. Good luck with whatever you decide.
Not a real big fan of the shoe job. On a sound horse, sure, it’ll probably work. On your horse with known issues, it’s not helping. He didn’t set the shoe back to help quicken the breakover. If anything, he’s going to trip more with these shoes than he would barefoot.
I also think the heels are slightly underrun; not terrible but it could be better. Plus, I’d like to see better heel support on a horse like this to encourage them to land level (you may or may not get them feeling well enough to land heel first).
If done correctly, shoes can really help lameness problems. If you want to stick with shoes , find a different farrier that understands lameness and the mechanics behind it. Nothing wrong with trying barefoot again - a good farrier IMO should be able to do a barefoot trim. Because a good shoe job starts with a good trim!! So if a farrier can’t do a good barefoot trim, I don’t want them touching my horse with shoes.
Not the worst shoe job I’ve seen, but by far not the best either. How long since a reset in these pictures? He’s short shod and left front is underrun as well.
The shoe is too small. The shoe should be just slightly outside the edge of the foot all the way around to allow for expansion. Years ago, like 50, I was taught a dime should roll all the way around the hoof on top of the shoe. That’s an oversimplification but gives the picture if what a properly fitted shoe needs to look like. Even as the hoof grows out, it should never extend over the rim of that shoe. Think that’s what others are seeing too. Shoe is too small and the hoof has been rasped to fit the shoe. That’s bass ackwards.
Does this farrier hot shoe? There’s nothing wrong with keg shoes or need to start with bar stock and forge the whole shoe on most horses, though some swear by it. A good farrier can heat up the standard keg shoe in the approximate size and manipulate the metal to fit the exact hoof it’s going on and allow for expansion. The not so good either don’t heat at all to save time or just suck at smithing. Anybody can call themselves a farrier and any ignoramus can recommend one.
I’d pull the too small shoes and seek a qualified farrier who can both trim at the direction of a consulting vet and know how to work with metal. And they need to understand the hoof expands and contracts each time it hits the ground. If course these cost a bit more and will take more time to properly meet the needs of each horse they work with.
Always keep that simplistic picture of the dime rolling around on the rim of the shoe in mind. Even if a shoe is deliberately set back under the toe, it needs expansion room and you should see it on the sides.
Alot of good feedback here but I second, third and fourth, getting a new farrier who specializes in navicular and barefoot trims if that is what you want to do. With navicular changes, there is honestly a lot of trial and error with shoeing.
I’d also consider getting some images of the neck - even though you found some major issues in the feet, I worry about the tripping perhaps being caused by some issues in the neck vertebrae. If you find something there, it might help you make a decision about next steps.
Also, have you had a farrier at the vet school/clinic work on him? I just did this for a quarter crack at the request of my regular farrier. The 2 farriers at the vet school and my farrier looked at the radiographs and then made 4 shoes and did the trim. My farrier can maintain the changes going forward now that she’s been mentored on the specific techniques (which she knew but didn’t have a lot of practice).
I have fought the navicular battle a few times and honestly? next time when it gets to a point where good farrier work isn’t helping, I’m seriously considering a neurectomy. I know that is unpopular for good reason, but if you can get a few more useful years out of the horse, and you otherwise like the horse, why not try it before euthanizing. It isn’t expensive. First I think you need to do some work on the feet as described above.
FWIW a vet for the USET told me that while it isn’t his first recommendation – there are an AWFUL lot of top level sport horses out there that can’t feel their feet. No one talks about it, but it is a procedure used way more often than anyone wants to admit, with quite a bit of success.
I would go with a lameness expert first, spend the money to get the horse there, our closest one is a good 5 hours away but worth the trouble for horses with problems that are not addressed sufficiently locally and see what that clinic tells you.
A kind of very good second opinion.
You need to know what is there and where to go next from a real expert, not any kind of internet or farrier guess.
And yes, another internet guess, the shoes in the pictures look a bit too small and could be set a titch more back, to give the whole leg column more support.
Like they are there, on a sore coffin bone and structures, not on a healthy happy hoof, you need, as already said, very careful bit more breakover and more support behind.
I’m going to go out on a limb here (well, not really) and guess it’s the heel’s and lack of support for them that’s very much contributing to the issue and why the horse seems more comfortable barefoot. I wouldn’t at all be surprised that years of the horse being shod like this (or worse) is what caused the changes/lesion in the first place.
@summerfield educating yourself about proper hoof balance and function will help you and your horse a lot. It will also help you find a farrier that can help your boy. When the heels and toes are allowed to run forward like that it compromises all the inner structures of the foot not allowing it to function properly. I’ve seen horses with feet like these go years like this and are still able to appear sound, and I’ve seen others go lame, but come sound after finding someone that can correct the feet and bring them in balance. I’ve also seen others that are left with permanent changes but come sound with corrective shoeing.
I agree that you need to haul the horse to someone who specializes in conditions such as “navicular”. It will be money well spent.
He needs good heels, and I don’t think he’s got em. When I read your original post, i thought, i bet the horse has underrun heels. probably long toes, too. photos bear that out. need a new farrier.
Well, the picture of the foot with just a trim looks the best with the fewest distortions. Neither shoe job is good at all in my eyes. I would pull the shoes, get a good balanced trim and do Durasole to toughen and thicken the sole if that is the problem.
Since you can’t get to a vet school, what about a online consult with a good equine podiatrist? My mind has gone blank on any names but someone on here should know of some.
I disagree with the poster that said neurectomy…especially if there is soft tissue damage. My friend had that done to her gelding that had torn both impar ligaments (at the behest of the insurance company). He was all of a sudden pain free and did some major yahooing. The nerving only lasted 3 months then he was even lamer as he had done even more damage (big strapping young WB). She ended up euthanizing but wished she had done it before the nerving. The insurance compnay wouldn’t pay out on the mortality policy due to the timeframe…even though nerving was done at their recommendation:mad:.
I wish you luck and sending jingles your way. It is a difficult and confounding problem to deal with.
Thanks Susan, I agree! my problem is that, again, it’s the same farrier who has to work on him.
I’m really frustrated, guys. The horse is tripping again, pretty bad, and he nearly fell on me today and wrenched my back on the way down. I asked the BO if she allows other people to come in, and I just learned that my barn doesn’t allow outside farriers and the BO told me that he’s the best around, so now she thinks I’m crazy for wanting to use a BF trimmer on him.
I’m not against shoes. I just don’t think they are working for him.
I HATE conflict, and I LOVE the BO’s instruction. I don’t want to cause friction, but it’s the utmost of frustration when you’ve tried traditional treatments, they didn’t work, and you are swimming against the grain in alternative-land. People think you are crazy when you are just trying to fix things. The horse is landing toe-first in shoes (I did some slo-mo), so it’s no surprise he’s tripping, and I’m just not interested in pouring more money to fix him.
I’ll have to see if the farrier can trim him well, and if not, I’m going to PTS/ donate to vet school. I am at my wit’s end, and I think it’s time for a break from horses.
My understanding of navicular syndrome is its a generalised diagnosis for heel pain.
If the horse is landing toes first then he has heel pain.
If the horse was 20, I would be suggest euth too, but the horse is 8.
I dont mean to trivialise the seriousness of the issue for you, but I think this can be managed, and you must feel that way too after he came sound barefoot.
It can be just a matter of finding the equilibrium for him of heels not too high, not too low and he is sounder. That should be inexpensve and easy enough to settle.
I dont know your area but if a BO suggested to me that I couldnt bring in a farier of my choice for my horses own welfare, I would not be staying. If you have a break from horses you wont be there anyway, so how can it make a difference at this point.
I dont think the problems are insurmountable, a farrier you can work with and a bit more time and I hope you get the result.
This. I wouldn’t board where I was limited to farriers or vets. My horse…I get the help I want and need for my horse’s condition. He is not rideable right now…move him and get him the help he needs. Current farrier is not doing the job.
Hi OP, first of all, let me tell you that i am really sorry about what you are living. I know what it means the constant situation of hope/heartbreak you are going trough. I had the chance of owning many horses, some of them never had soundness issues but others…well I was so tired of waiting months and…years hoping and at the end(and I don’t want you to think that I am a negative person) i finally concluded that some horses are not made for sport like some people.
I had lately really bad luck…I had a very nice horse that i purchased when he was two, the vet told me that he would not have perfect navicular bone and…at five he became lame, did EVERYTHING for him and i finally sold him for little money. Then I bought another two years old mare with super x rays that…fell in the field 4 monts after purchasing her and had a stiffle injury, a year(and a lot of money) after she became a broodmare…bought after a horse that had bone cyst and lame ever after…I was so devastated, I could not believe i could have so much bad luck. Hopefully the horse with the cyst became lame 1 month later i bought him and the breeder took him back and changed him with my actual mare(one year ago) which is awesome. I love her so much and she is super talented. I tell you all this because everything can change and I think that we have to keep positive and I am convinced that it is better let go than suffer so much. This is my opinion…when a lameness becomes cronic, it is very difficult that the horse heal completely.
