What's with all this Horn grabbing?

In this Western Ranch Pleasure video, rider #1435 at 2:08, starts to jog out and grabs his saddle horn.

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?425924-Westen-Dressage

Back when I was learning western as a kid, I was always taught that if you have to grab horn, it meant you weren’t in the saddle right, had a bad seat. I remember hearing so often being yelled at while riding -

LET GO OF THAT HORN!! YOU RIDE WITH YOUR LEGS!!

And as I progressed, I was expected to be able to do what English riders call 2-point using my legs, not my hands holding on to the saddle.

What’s with all this horn grabbing, and at shows no less?

From the looks of his seat, I doubt he needed to do that. It’s more just the silly modern emphasis on exclaiming a lack of contact by pushing the rein hand as forward as it can go.

As for judging others…meh, “…lest ye be judged…” and such.

Horn grabbing can be a bad habit or a balance issue. In speed events it can get in your way because it seems to interfere with the horse’s energy. They don’t all do it by any stretch. That’s not what the horn is for. I mean look at it this way, those Western horses are ridden one-handed so you can do work, not hold on.

Paula

[QUOTE=aktill;7372088]
As for judging others…meh, “…lest ye be judged…” and such.[/QUOTE]

He’s at a show. It’s all about judgement.

Maybe it’s the cowboy equivalent of crotch-grabbing? Young folks have strange ideas about what looks cool. :lol:

In barrel racing the horn is used to help keep the rider out of the horses way during turns. Going into the turn you grab the horn and push to help keep you back in your seat and then on the way out it is used to help pull you up to stay with the horse as they launch towards the next barrel. However in between barrels two hands should be on the reins setting the horse up.

I only dabbled in showing western pleasure when i was younger but was never allowed to use the horn.

My two cents :wink:

[QUOTE=Sparrowette;7372157]
He’s at a show. It’s all about judgement.[/QUOTE]

…and given: "The 2014 AQHA Handbook will also clarify that posting at the extended trot and holding the saddle horn will be acceptable riding techniques in ranch pleasure classes. "
…not an issue?

I don’t hold the horn either (given that’s a habit that will cause a rope to take your finger off), but a “back in my day” approach to showing isn’t really relavent.

Shows are about obeying rules, not proper riding.

[QUOTE=aktill;7372088]

As for judging others…meh, “…lest ye be judged…” and such.[/QUOTE]

I think aktill means judgers on the interwebz, not a horse show. If I’m wrong, lemme know.

[QUOTE=mvp;7372691]
I think aktill means judgers on the interwebz, not a horse show. If I’m wrong, lemme know.[/QUOTE]

Pretty much.

“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”

-Theodore Roosevelt

I die a little on the inside every time I hear someone say, “I just don’t know how you ride in that English saddle, there is nothing to grab onto, that’s why I ride western.”

To which I always respond, “You realize that holding on only impairs your balance, right?”

I don’t know the rules of western/ranch pleasure classes, but since western riding already harbors so many poor riders I don’t know why they would encourage it. WWGMD?

[QUOTE=Sparrowette;7372084]
What’s with all this horn grabbing, and at shows no less?[/QUOTE]You typically you are allowed to hold the horn in cow events (cutting, reined cowhorse). Sometimes even a good seat is not so much when a horse turns on a cow. :lol:

[QUOTE=Sparrowette;7372084]
In this Western Ranch Pleasure video, rider #1435 at 2:08, starts to jog out and grabs his saddle horn.

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?425924-Westen-Dressage

Back when I was learning western as a kid, I was always taught that if you have to grab horn, it meant you weren’t in the saddle right, had a bad seat. I remember hearing so often being yelled at while riding -

LET GO OF THAT HORN!! YOU RIDE WITH YOUR LEGS!!

And as I progressed, I was expected to be able to do what English riders call 2-point using my legs, not my hands holding on to the saddle.

What’s with all this horn grabbing, and at shows no less?[/QUOTE]

I think you’d need to read the rules and see what they say you can do, before you go all ‘Back in my Day’ :wink:

Maybe it’s the cowboy equivalent of crotch-grabbing? Young folks have strange ideas about what looks cool.

GAHhahahahahaha

I do think that it’s ‘cool’ in the ranch pleasure class, where you show how your horse can really trot out. (Horn-grabbing, not crotch-grabbing!)The ‘trot out’ or ‘extend the trot’ in the ranch horse pleasure class is a direct reaction to the western pleasure ‘jog’ crawl.

And, as such, I think the ranch pleasure riders hold the horn when the horse trots out to show how the horse has such a BIG, reaching trot that you have to hold the horn to stay steady in the saddle. Even if you have a lovely strong, balanced seat and don’t need to hold the horn.

Same thing, with hunter riders on a long, loopy rein or praying-mantis perching…they are exaggerating a mannerism in order to show how they can ‘throw the horse away’ or how ‘he has such a big, powerful bascule-ey jump that he jumps me right out of the tack’.

Or, as p’Aint misbehavin’ says…crotch grabbing is cool in a particular context.

And yes, there ARE western disciplines where it is appropriate to grab/hold the saddle horn. Saddles made for that discipline will have a taller, skinnier horn to make it easier to grab. Barrel saddles and cutting saddles made for those disciplines have tall skinny horns.

That said, a nightlatch is a lot easier to hold on to than a horn. Or your rope. Though if you have your rope on an appropriate lightweight rope strap that will break away in a storm, you risk falling off if the rope strap breaks. It isn’t unusual to see a ranch bronc rider (who ride in their regular working saddles with ropes, rather than the specialized horn-less rodeo bronc saddles) get bucked off because his rope strap breaks. They land in the dirt, holding on to their rope!

Aktill, thank you for that quote.
You can’t learn and improve without trying, without doing, without being vulnerable.

Honestly, I think it is to protect his family jewels because his stirrups are so long:eek:. I know that standing in too long of stirrups makes it harder to stay up and harder to sit down gently.

[QUOTE=Fillabeana;7376277]
GAHhahahahahaha

I do think that it’s ‘cool’ in the ranch pleasure class, where you show how your horse can really trot out….

Same thing, with hunter riders on a long, loopy rein or praying-mantis perching…they are exaggerating a mannerism in order to show how they can ‘throw the horse away’ or how ‘he has such a big, powerful bascule-ey jump that he jumps me right out of the tack’.[/QUOTE]

I believe you are right.

Man, I get tired of affected-looking crap spreading around everywhere. I thought I could leave that if I left Modern Hunter World.

I have seen some south west cowboys(west TX, NM and a few AZ guys) that stand in their stirrups and hold the horn at the long trot to get off the horses back.
Since it is a “ranch class” I imagine that AQHA made it acceptable since the cowboys do it.

Back in the day ranch cowboys did not do the long trot, nor post. It was walk or lope or gallop. So it ‘is,’ in truth, a more recent development. Not a bad one mind you, but still, as one who ‘long trots’ for miles while conditioning a horse or foxhunting in English tack, grabbing the horn would not/ should not be necessary even in a western saddle. If you do need something for balance or impromptu rodeos, actually grabbing the horn pushes you ‘out’ of the saddle (in context this works for cutting to push you back and keep you centered), the prudent affix a night latch to their saddles as something to grab in order to stay on board: https://www.google.com/search?q=night+latch+for+western+saddle&client=firefox-a&hs=402&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=JVIVU8fJK8X4oASbm4KwAQ&ved=0CDMQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=639

While grabbing the horn would not be considered “proper” riding, it is something that cowboys do. It is a ranch pleasure class, wouldn’t make much sense to sit the long trot in the show ring if you don’t do it outside. My ranch horses(and some of them I show) know that when I start to post that means it’s time to start picking them up and putting them down, time to cover some ground!
In a ranch situation where we cover a lot of country it is about conserving your horses and if I have to sacrifice proper riding to do so, I will. I don’t grab my horn per say, but after a long hard day and we are trotting back to the trailer or saddle barn to beat the dark, I will put my hand on top of my horn to stay off my horses back or exaggerate posting because my horse and I are both tired, not because I can’t ride correctly. Has nothing to do with not being able to balance or needing something to hang onto to stay on.
While some folks probably are doing it in the ring because they seen “cowboy Bob” do it, there actually is a reason/function for it outside.

Not just AQHA, APHA but SHOT and other ranch type events and associations are allowing posting at the trot and holding the horn. I think finally the pendulum is starting to swing the other way a bit, horses that have a job are shown doing their job rather than training a horse specifically for a show class. Isn’t that what showing started out to be in the first place? Showing your horses at the jobs they were trained for?

I sat behind the judges at a QH regional show last fall, and heard their scoring for the ranch horse pleasure classes. After the classes were done I asked a few questions, since I don’t show QH and wasn’t an exhibitor there, so it was okay to do so. Anyway, I asked about the posting at the extended trot vs. standing and holding the horn. Either was acceptable, and it didn’t matter what diagonal if you chose to post. It didn’t matter how your lead change was, either (front to back, back to front, rough vs. smooth), only that you accomplished the lead change at the designated place in the pattern.

It was very much about looking like you were on a broke ranch horse who had the pace and handle to get the job done. Period. It was very interesting.