We all have certain things that are a deal breaker when you are buying a new young dressage horse. What is your deal breaker? For me is it clubs and that is from previous experience. How far do you go with the PPE and radiographs?
1 Like
A lot depends on whether I am buying a prospect or one already doing substantially the same work I want to do. I will always x-ray back and neck and basic views of hocks, feet, and fetlocks. Any abnormalities in the neck is an absolute deal breaker for me regardless of age or work the horse is doing. In a really young/green horse, I won’t want anything substantial in hocks or fetlocks (e.g. early arthritis) and kissing spine would probably be a deal breaker. Kissing spine would not necessarily be a deal breaker if the horse is doing essentially the work I intend to do and is sound/comfortable.
1 Like
It has been 5 years since I was horse shopping --and not for a dressage horse at that time, but a fox hunter prospect. This was to be a horse that could deal with chaos, keep his mind, and be sound. That he didn’t buck, bolt, or bite; loaded and stood for clipping was also required.
Once that was established, at the PPE, I asked the vet first to look at his over-all confirmation and make a judgment as to his suitability for fox hunting. Passed that and we went to the standard flex test. Passed that. Then the vet and I each picked a set of joints --I picked pasterns, he picked hocks. We x rayed. Passed that.
The next test was getting by my shoer --I didn’t want to spend the next 20 years hearing how my shoer would “never have bought a horse with feet like that.” Passed (actually shoer said he’d never need shoes).
Last test was a ride out with the hunt staff screaming, yelling and cracking whips. They rode past him, up behind him, and around him. Passed.
Had he failed any of those tests, he would have gone back. I had 7 days to “do anything I wanted” with horse and if he wasn’t suitable, I could bring him back and have my check torn up.
He’s a great horse! However, he never became the hunter I wanted --he’s a inconsistent jumper (or I’m an inconsistent rider), who chips in or goes long with no rhyme or reason. He’s much better with my friend who is a strong 3-Day rider than he is with me who kind of just “sits there.”
Regardless, hunting is still fun (I ride my old hunter and only take the new kid when the old hunter can’t go out). My great joy with him is daily riding (I have my own trails and Mounted Archery courses and dressage ring), and Mounted Archery where the new horse is stellar.
Too much information off the topic . . .
7 Likes
Trainer and I tried a lovely little Trakehner mare a bunch of years ago. 4th level dressage, 9 yrs old. Took a couple odd steps away from mounting block, then looked fine, nice training, easy, hacked around property. Come time for the PPE. Those funny steps turned into “would need aggressive maintenance”. When I asked for bloodwork, it was disclosed that the mare is afraid of needles and I saw what it took to get that done. Then I was told that she was on regumate. Walked away from the mare. But more interesting was that my then trainer asked if there was a lower price that I would be willing to pay…that was a “no”.
1 Like
i test-rode a big paint, (that i found disappointingly unattractive) along a bluff oceanside trail. Owner started to dismount to open a gate and i said “i’ll get it”…opened and then closed gate from horse’s back. Everything he did was good. When we got back to the barn and turned him out to roll in the sand arena she expectantly asked if i was going to buy him. I told her no. She was crestfallen and asked Why? He did everything for you! and that she’d never been able to open that gate from his back. I said that he was just too easy… I wanted a challenge. Eventually i ended up with a 3yrold Morgan stallion who was hot as heck and unbacked. Love affair for 20 years with that one… I want a horse that will help improve my horsewomanship, that will stretch me and help me learn. And, i must find the horse beautiful.
2 Likes
Maintenence in a relatively young horse.
I looked at a 9 year old that was already getting hock injections and was in expensive shoeing. Hard no from me.
Untreated ulcers. Looked at a horse for a friend, checked all the boxes, but clearly had untreated ulcers. Sellers knew it and just didn’t want to invest the money and were hoping for a quick flip. Nope. Invest the money in the 28 days of Gastrogard, see what you’ve got, add the cost to the sale price. Why would a buyer take the risk when the seller won’t?
And I know this is an unpopular opinion; but I’ve never owned a cribber and don’t think I even will. I’ve known otherwise lovely horses that were cribbers but it’s just a hard no for me.
8 Likes
Deal breakers for me are requires extensive maintenance, needs crazy shoeing job to stay sound, doesn’t think highly of themselves. Some of that depends on horses age as well.
If I was able to purchase a school master up in his years that was high maintenance, I would for the right price and then retire them.
3 Likes
Zero personality and a cribber if all else in PPE checks out on my check list.
1 Like
IME, I can deal with health issues that are normal at that age and stage of training.
In a young horse, mind is key. A horse that is hypervigilant and spooky, the price has to reflect the work that will need to go into it. A horse who negatively reacts to saddling and groundwork? No. The horse has to have a brain that can be reached. I don’t care how talented the horse is, no. We have a stallion coming in who is freakishly well bred for dressage. He’s so against everything. His owner (a very accomplished dressage rider in the US and Europe) is coming around to gelding him and sending him here for very basic training (with a dressage trained but normally Western Natural Horsemanship trainer). The horse scores VERY well in top East Coast breed shows but is not a horse who needs to pass on these traits and needs to be more comfy in his own skin. I’ve watched this horse with both the owner and trainer riding and I thought either could be maimed or killed.
So, for me, brain is at the top of the list.
3 Likes
Anything with the word “suspensory” in it is a no for me. That’s based on experience–spending two years and beaucoup $$ trying to rehab a suspensory issue the vet was “confident” could be rehabbed.
I know many mild suspensory injuries can supposedly be fixed, but in my mind they are the ultimate heartbreaker, sometimes reappearing long after the horse seems to have returned to soundness.
2 Likes
At the pre-PPE stage?
A dull mind. The backyard trail horse that can pack anyone around is a true gem… but not my ride. If the horse doesn’t want to “at least get a Master’s degree,” we’ll hate each other in the end. Now, the MS can be in lovely, loose-reined Huntering, but the horse has to want to accept training and enjoy doing a job.
At a PPE, or hopefully disclosed before:
Stifle OCD.
Suspensory injury that has not been healed to the point that the horse is solidly back doing the job I would use him for.
Also, I’d ask a lot of questions about how that healing was done and just how big the lesion had been. I’d like an illustrated guide (ultrasound pictures) to that history.
Bad hoof walls and a complicated shoeing prescription-- one that would overwhelm the farriers local to me.
I have been blessed to have spent years watching a top university farrier and I have learned a lot about what it takes to keep some 'tough shoeing case" horses sound. I’d have my current farrier weigh in on the horse’s feet. But great, technical farriers are hard to find and very expensive when you let them do all that they can to keep an iffy horse taped together. I have also lived in some mediocre horse markets where farriery was not going to be that good (mainly because they shoers there and/or their clients didn’t support continuing education for them). Do not own a horse harder to shoe than your market will bear.
Kissing spines scares me. If/when I learn what to x-ray in order to definitively rule that into or out of a horse’s future, I’ll do that.
3 Likes
Love this. This is mine too, along with dragging me around, being in my face when I’m handling it, and being needlessly antsy. I don’t want it. I like a horse with a “professional” outlook on life, sensitive is a must, sweet is a bonus.
Physical things I won’t deal with: back/neck abnormalities, anything that skews neurological, maintenance that’s not in line with age and level of training. I’m also never buying anything that has a cold spook again, though I think there’s more to that than just the brain.
3 Likes
It must be pretty (because this is expensive and I like pretty). And it must have a great mind. I don’t mind pushiness, because that can easily be fixed.
I don’t mind a bit of maintenance in terms of joint injections, because we’ve got access to phenomenal sport horse vets in our area.
Hard physical no’s for me: Kissing spine, high-maintenance shoeing requirements, colic history or previous colic surgeries.
Other things that are more subjective but that will still cause me to pass: I like more compact horses. Long backs and snaky necks are a no-go. I don’t like spooky or noticeably “sensitive” horses. I’m not interested in fixing dangerous behavioural issues.
3 Likes
I tend to toe the line of what’s reasonable and have taken risks other people wouldn’t - but I also keep my horses at home. I’ve taken on a horse with a clubbed foot, two horses now with suspensory and old DFFT injuries (race horses), a horse with ankle chips, and a horse with zero personality (who later showed me he was just shut down in his current program - he became a class clown after racing let down). Changes in management and care really make a big difference for horses in terms of soundness and personality.
Horses have proven to me many times over that the “Passes PPE Perfectly” horse is at just as much a risk of career-ending injury the second it unloads from my trailer as the one that has all sorts of red flags show up on PPE. I have had quite a few horses with rads that would horrify buyers, that have competed successfully (and soundly) at low level eventing. And… the horse who passed PPE with flying colors, came from GREAT racing connections who still ask after him 15 years later, retired sound from the track and was just too slow… is now 22 and has been retired since he was six because of a series of catastrophic paddock incidents.
At the pre-PPE stage, there are very few dealbreakers for me if I like the horse and the price is right. I have passed on a horse with past colic surgery, a horse with bone chips in his knee, and several horses now who have held their tail abnormally to one side. I’ve also passed on several horses I thought were borderline neurologic. I pass on colic surgery because they’re always at-risk of colicking again, I pass on knee chips because they tend to severely limit performance/comfort even with surgery, and I pass on abnormal tail carriage because it seems to be consistently linked to kissing spine and neck issues in my experience.
Oh - one hard and fast dealbreaker - I won’t work (or take on) with horses who have flipped over backwards deliberately.
12 Likes
2 years ago I would have answered, cribbing. Now that I have experienced it, I’m going to say herdbound. My horse is the absolute WORST. He’s never been shown in this country and I’m certain that is why. This was not disclosed to me when I bought him. I had to find out the hard way. I was told he had “a little dressage” training. Turns out he’s trained to Grand Prix. So why couldn’t I find a show record? Found out when I took him to our first clinic. I sedated him and it didn’t help much. Never again. I would almost take a cribber over this.
8 Likes
Absolutely no lameness issues, has to be healthy! Doesn’t have to have perfect conformation,be pretty, come from great lines or possess a saintly character. I have experience will many types/breeds of horses, so I can deal with otherwise not ideal horse, but the animal should absolutely not be lame or be physically unconformable under saddle. Especially for the demanding dressage work, but also in general (since dressage is the absolute basis for everything).
1 Like
Cribbers – I board my horses and it’s hard to find a place (in this area) that will allow cribbers
Rearers – I’m not a fan of horses who use rearing as their aversion tactic (BTDT)
I generally shy away from neurological issues. Soft tissue injuries that have been rehabbed and are back at their normal work level don’t bother me.
For me, I do basic a PPE (general exam and flexions) and then decide where to go from there. I will generally only do rads of joints that flex fairly positive (2+), depending on the circumstances. Mild flexion positives on older horses or OTTBs that just raced don’t bother me too much. Like some of the previous posters, I’ve found PPEs to not be indicative enough of future soundness for me to want to go all out and shoot rads of everything – doing so would add $5k to the horse’s price!
Cribber
Shoeing recipe
Chronic medical condition requiring daily meds
Can not be pastured = grass limitations or herd behavior issues.
I refuse to “buy” trouble any more !
Shop for * easy, sound, happy, and pleasing to the eye.
1 Like
Add me to the list of No Previous Colic Surgeries.
Nearly broke my own rule years ago when I fell in love with a mare this older gal had and needed to sell. I don’t recall all the details but I do remember when my vet did the cursory PPE. She stopped and pointed out a series of staples still in the mare’s belly from a previous colic surgery. Like what the _____? So that was a hard, quick nope.
Also won’t do an ornery, angry horse. It’s sad when they end up that way, but I’ve already fulfilled my quota of reforming that type of horse. So I’m not doing it again.
3 Likes
The only horse that I purchased was after looking at about four hundred head over a few months (this was not an ordeal since some of the farms had herds of fifty or sixty)
There was this one that looked at me, paid attention to me that I kept coming back to see. She was not just what I looking for but she was really nice, her eye contact was exceptional she was just younger than what I wanted (she was a long yearling). I actually left the farm however while driving away I stop and went back to buy her.
This horse proved to much better than I ever thought possible , we kept her until she passed away naturally at 27.
9 Likes
