If your riding a green WB mare, and she is very sensitive, too much contact and she will go behind the bit, not enough and she plows through your aids. She is currently being ridden in a loose ring ultra kk. At the canter and over fences she roots on the reins and will pull her head down or up depending on the situation. I just purchased a Micklem bridle to see if that helps?
A baucher bit can sometimes be useful.
None, I wasn’t born with the proper gaps in my teeth.
I have a young warmblood who is tricky about the bit. I’ve had a lot of trouble finding the right bit for him, and we’ve changed bits several times as he has become more educated. When he was younger, a bit that was too unstable (such as a loose ring) would cause him to curl regardless of how soft and steady the rider’s contact was. I used an eggbutt for him to start, and as he became more educated and the work became harder, we moved back to a loose ring because the eggbutt was too inviting to lean into.
Right now, schooling 2nd level, I love the NS Verbindend for him. It is a good bit for a sensitive horse, and I can be very subtle with my hands. However, had I gone to that bit earlier in our training, I’m guessing it wouldn’t have been right for my horse. We spent a LOT of time teaching him to stretch into the contact so that he didn’t curl, and some of that time was spent in a very slow, controlled trot that lacked much energy and power. Once he learned to stretch, I was able to build that power back in. Now, he will curl occasionally, but it is an easy correction from my arms and pushing him up into the bridle from my legs.
Based on your description, though, it sounds like the contact is the bigger issue than the bit. It sounds like she doesn’t respect your other aids enough, and she’s too reliant on your hands for guidance and needs to learn self-carriage.
[QUOTE=caper;8552598]
A baucher bit can sometimes be useful.[/QUOTE]
Would a Baucher bit make her curl more?
Windermere has a good point.
Why would a baucher make a horse curl?
Bauchers physically can’t produce leverage, or at least any significant leverage. I prefer them for working with horses who need reschooling (I use French link Bauchers and full cheeks almost exclusively), but bits alone can’t teach a horse to accept contact.
I did see one causing significant leverage once, but that was because it was on upside-down… Rider was really chuffed that she’s found this bit that was legal for dressage and got her horse to go in a frame 
[QUOTE=dps;8552427]
If your riding a green WB mare, and she is very sensitive, too much contact and she will go behind the bit, not enough and she plows through your aids. She is currently being ridden in a loose ring ultra kk. At the canter and over fences she roots on the reins and will pull her head down or up depending on the situation. I just purchased a Micklem bridle to see if that helps?[/QUOTE]
I would probably go with something more stable like a D or a Full cheek but like Windermere said, your problem is more about contact than bit.
This is not really about being sensitive, it is typical of young green horses to try to avoid the bit by either curling or inverting. Mostly, it is a sign of lack of strenght. It will get better but you need to focus on that.
What’s the diameter of the bit right now?
My welsh pony who was a driving and riding pony would go BTV and the bit was a french link.
So when he came to me I switched to baucher with a french link mouth piece. The first ride was amazing. He attempted to go into his regular BTV position. I just raised my hands and picked him up. He stayed there. He tried again and the save response–I lifted my hands to re-position him and there he stayed.
The second ride no attempts at all by him but I was very careful to not let him even consider dropping and to carry himself. He was very content in that bit. So in my case it did work for him. He started to develop some self-carriage too.
I have two:
Sprenger Dynamic RS Loose Ring (although some of mine are the bradoon for the thinner mouthpiece) https://www.smartpakequine.com/pt/herm-sprenger-dynamic-rs-aurigan-loose-ring-7107
Lorenzini Titanium Loose Ring Lozenge http://www.vtosaddlery.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=LLRBTSB&gclid=CPGfp9zJncsCFYk9gQod3foJWQ
I do have a baucher but its a single joint, I put an egg butt French link on for today’s ride, well see how that goes. yes she is green and needs strength, she has her good and bad days. I always thought the KK ultra loose ring was the bit for every situation but I’m learning now that, that is not the case
My greenie started with a Happy Mouth eggbutt with a middle bean. Once good contact was established, is now in a stainless steel, French link eggbutt. There isn’t 1 magic bit that works for every horse, but more often than not I’m starting with the French link and reading the horse’s reaction starting with it…
Depending on the horse, but I don’t think all horses like the french link. My horses the 21 yo and the 3 year old are both in a single jointed bit. The 21 year old is pretty much always ridden in the KK Balkenhol bit- single jointed and I think it gives him a little bit more room for his tongue. The baby is in an eggbutt snaffle, single jointed.
I’d agree this sounds like a training issue. Horse needs to slowly learn how to take up steady contact, and keep it, neither ducking behind the bit or rushing through it. It took a couple of years to get this in my horse, and we did a lot of stretch long and out to the bit. Any fights or sessions where I had to haul on her face (like if she was taking off) set us back.
The particular bit isn’t a magic fix, but I think you do need one that is relatively stable, kind, and comfortable to the horse. Some horses have smaller mouths, so a thick bit that seems like it should be milder is in fact uncomfortable for the horse.
My horse had a baucher when we started riding, and we didn’t achieve good contact with that. It was just a little strong for her. We went onto a moderate egg butt, and then finally to a fuhlmer full cheek snaffle (all bit experiments initiated by my coach). The full-cheek aspect makes it more stable when we do lateral flexions and counterflexions.
You might also back off and do less canter work, certainly not over fences, until you have her accepting contact and coming back to your aids. I don’t think there is much point doing fences until you have the canter balanced and under control (speaking from experience :)), you just make things worse all around.
[QUOTE=dps;8552989]
I do have a baucher but its a single joint, I put an egg butt French link on for today’s ride, well see how that goes. yes she is green and needs strength, she has her good and bad days. I always thought the KK ultra loose ring was the bit for every situation but I’m learning now that, that is not the case :-)[/QUOTE]
My go to bit is also the double jointed loose ring KK ultra. BUT. :lol:
My mare was a big curler (mostly due to being badly started by an idiot but I disgress).
I re-started her in a double jointed 18mm stubben loose ring. I had somewhat control over her antics at the beginning but she was chomping a lot or opening her mouth at the canter (holding herself (too) round - quiet - I wasn’t pulling or anything, the bit was hanging there in the middle of her mouth… I had to push her forward in order for her to regain contact with the bit…
I then moved to a KK double jointed full cheek 16mm with keepers because I had trouble properly steering/half halting in my jumping courses and I was obviously looking for something more stable in her mouth. I’m not a fan of full cheeks, never had to use one before…It went really well for a while. It really helped stabilizing her mouth issues. Still struggling with contact (getting her through the back/curling) but the gapping and chomping stopped.
Started her more seriously in dressage and tried a 16mm double jointed KK Ultra WH loose ring (the one with the roller). It was a great change. More precise for flexions and a little bit more control over the extra energy she could have in the ring. But then she did started to curl a little too much for my taste and is not ‘‘on the bit’’ like I want her to be. Just a tad behind. Still did a successfull show season at 2d level.
I’m now getting her ready for 3rd level this summer and ride her in a 18mm KK Balkenhol loose ring. Fatter, more stable, still conform her mouth and since she is stronger and more obedient then ever, she’s confidently taking proper contact on that bit.
I’m usually good at picking the right bit by how I feel the horse’s mouth after a few rides. Sometime, it takes longer!
(Bits I’ve tried that didn’t work for her : KK Ultra double jointed loose ring, Stubben EZ control D ring, KK Ultra baucher double jointed, Waterford, pessoa, single jointed loose ring, single jointed egg-butt, happy mouths were the worst ever, fat rubber D ring, mulhen mouth, stubben gold wings snaffle, some I probably don’t remember.)
I’m more lucky with her double bridle setting! She loves the combination of the KK Conrad weymouth 16mm and a Balkenhol bradoon.
Interesting thread. I’m currently switching between a French link loose rein (gets too busy at trot, curls horribly) and a full cheek regual snaffle (stays nicely on the bit but randomly runs off). Switching has been pretty good and we’ve made good progress but I’ve been thinking about a baucher for a while. Now to decide if French link or no? Brakes or steering? Hmmm.
This horse is an older one with some bad training and a whole lot of attitude, hence the issue. I usually start young horses and have never run into such determination to be a pita. She is cute though.
Well I tried the egg butt French link last night but it was so windy and cold it was not a good night to try it. Will try again tonight, but thinking I should try a single joint eggbutt or baucher? Can’t wait for the trainers to come back from FL
The Herm Sprenger Duo is great for curlers/horses that are reluctant to take contact. It is a super bit for sensitive horses.
I also love the RS Dynamic and am going to try the Novocontact for the same issue. it is marketed to improve contact, and I am hoping my horse who loves the Duo will like it and then I won’t have to replace it since he chews through the Duos with semi-regular frequency, about once a year. That adds up. I have heard good things about the single joint version. pretty sure there a long thread on this forum about it if you search. Mine is on backorder, still waiting for it to come in.
that said, the Duo is pretty sturdy all things considered.
That horse considers the regular KK and French links to have too many moving parts, he gets fussy in them. He’ll stretch nicely into the Duo though, it feels more stable to him I think. That is why I ordered the single joint Novocontact, I think he will find it less busy.
I keep looking at the Novocontact and really want to try it
