When a seller says price is negotiable

[Parrotnutz]

I just bought a new “off breed” dressage horse last April. My trainer is not at all fond of anything but warmbloods for dressage but also knows I cannot afford one that is in my price range that won’t have something wrong with it. I am not a big show person, I ride and train like I am going to show, but…I rarely do. But to her most important factor for her client is a horse that suits them, thank heavens.

We both saw a horse on Facebook at the same time that we thought would suit means he happened to be near her mother’s house and she was going there for Easter so was able to make arrangements to stop and try him <3 hours from our barn> Meanwhile I was messaging with the trainer about the horse and we built up quite a rapport. Of course my trainer thinks every “off breed” horse is over priced, lol, especially what I was looking at.

The point being it really is hard to price compare these horses. For me #1 was the brain. What my horse looks like (Huge) and rides like (light) are really a fooler. To look at him one would never think he rides so different than he looks.

My trainer liked the way her rode, told me the positives and negatives and we made a date for me to try him and I set up a vetting for that afternoon based on whether I liked riding him. I am a pretty decisive buyer and my trainer knows me well and already told me I would be able to ride him it was just whether I enjoyed him or not.

The trainer was very upfront about the pricing and said it was only very slightly negotiable. I I made the offer and we it was not insulting and we settled in the middle.

I would not offer according to what another “off breed” was priced at as someone else said. These horses are not based on breeding, etc. Unless its a quarter horse , those are. Mine is a Clyde/Hackney horse cross and I got really lucky because he has turned out to be more talented than I thought he would be. Aside from that, his temperament is awesome and I ride the exact same horse everyday which I would pay as much as I have to for that!

Adriane

[rothmpp]

@atr

(They gave me a number that was a lot lower than the asking price and a lot lower than I was prepared to have to pay. They were happy, I was ecstatic…)

This is the reason everyone is always hesitant to be the first to throw a number out there. Seller doesn’t want to put a number out that is lower than the buyer would pay, buyer doesn’t want to put a number out that is higher than the seller would take

OP - decide what the most is that you would be willing to spend on this horse. Then offer 10% less to give you some room to negotiate. If you settle in the middle, everyone walks away satisfied.

I would question why your trainer won’t even talk to you about the horse. Make sure trainer understands you are willing to pay for the evaluation. If they still won’t even evaluate, I’d be questioning the relationship with the trainer.

[scruffy_the_cat]

Thank you all for your input!

Parrotnutz- you describe my situation to a T, other than the breed of the horse.
Atr- I like your approach.

No worries about my instructor. I have and will learn a lot from her actual lessons. She is an exacting instructor with impeccable credentials and gets the best out of me as a rider and horse person. But our relationship is not one that I expect a lot out of her after I get off my horse. It’s all good and clear and no hard feelings at all.

MUCH appreciate all the thoughts from all of you. It has been VERY helpful.

[hoopoe]

there have been many wise words here. In a little corner of my mind, however, I feel this term “price negotiable” could carry other meaning.

So you like the horse and have PPE which turns up a problem; perhaps something that might mean joint maint or management or prior injury.

By prefacing the situation with price negotiable the owner < probably knowing the pre-existing issue> is inviting you to allow yourself to bid lower for the horse

[soloudinhere]

@hoopoe

there have been many wise words here. In a little corner of my mind, however, I feel this term “price negotiable” could carry other meaning.

So you like the horse and have PPE which turns up a problem; perhaps something that might mean joint maint or management or prior injury.

By prefacing the situation with price negotiable the owner < probably knowing the pre-existing issue> is inviting you to allow yourself to bid lower for the horse

Or the horse is fine but they just want to sell it to a good situation and are willing to take less money for the right match. I have a lovely 3yo that will PPE fine and is very talented that I just don’t have time for. It happens.

[hoopoe]

Yes, a fire sale,s so to speak

[soloudinhere]

@hoopoe

Yes, a fire sale,s so to speak

A firesale is something different. That is selling something way below it’s worth to get rid of it. Being negotiable to the right situation is not equivalent to a firesale.

[saultgirl]

Don’t be afraid to make a low offer! Keep in mind, carrying costs and risk is high in nice horses (nice barn + training + vet/farrier + risk of injury or illness) and they can always counter-offer if your offer is too low for them. Good luck!

[SnicklefritzG]

But offer too low and one risks offending the seller

@saultgirl

Don’t be afraid to make a low offer! Keep in mind, carrying costs and risk is high in nice horses (nice barn + training + vet/farrier + risk of injury or illness) and they can always counter-offer if your offer is too low for them. Good luck!

[bip]

@soloudinhere

Or the horse is fine but they just want to sell it to a good situation and are willing to take less money for the right match. I have a lovely 3yo that will PPE fine and is very talented that I just don’t have time for. It happens.

Probably through word of mouth, rather than an ad, though, right?

[Mallard]

Not a dressage horse, but I just bought a lovely 6 yr old WelshX for 25% of his asking price. The ad said ‘negotiable to the right home’.
After multiple emails back and forth, then going to try him out once, we just made our offer and she accepted right away. The seller wanted him to go to a home just like ours. I had given her multiple references / photos of our farm and other ponies.
She delivered him here with the right to take him back if we didn’t meet her expectations.
We got one of our other ponies exactly the same way 6 years ago.
Offer what you think the horse is worth to you…all they can do is say ‘no’.

[saultgirl]

@SnicklefritzG

But offer too low and one risks offending the seller

So they can counter offer. Or they can go pound sand.

[SnicklefritzG]

Yes, they could counter offer, but there are a lot of sellers that will walk away from people who lowball them.

@saultgirl

So they can counter offer. Or they can go pound sand.

[mmeqcenter]

I don’t know why we need to “read into” something like this so much. Negotiable has always just meant negotiable, to me. As opposed to “Firm.” It has never made me think there’s something shady going on, or health issues, or what have you.

[Color_of_Light]

@SnicklefritzG

Yes, they could counter offer, but there are a lot of sellers that will walk away from people who lowball them.

The buyer needs to put the ball in the negotiable sellers court and prep for the negotiating.

When the buyer is ready to talk price with the seller, ask the seller if they are ready to negotiate back and forth and arrive at an agreeable price. If they say yes, then put the ball in the sellers court, and ask what are they hoping to get for the horse? If they don’t say, then ask the seller what is the starting point of their negotiable price? If the buyer jokingly says 50K on their obviously 5K horse, then the seller can jokingly respond with some equally joking low offer. Hopefully both will laugh, and then get down to serious business.

If the seller can’t come up with a starting negotiable price, the buyer needs to be prepared to walk away (just like when dealing with a car sales person). Tell the seller to give you a call when they come up with their starting price and when they are ready to negotiate. How many sellers would let a potential buyer slip through their hands, since finding interested buyers can be hard to come by to start with?

Also, if the buyer counters the offer and the seller doesn’t like the offer, tell the seller you are “negotiable” and to give you a call if they are still interested. Many will sleep on that offer, realize they really need to sell now, and call back to negotiate further or to seal the deal.

Same principal as:

@saultgirl

So they can counter offer. Or they can go pound sand.

[SnicklefritzG]

There are a lot of sellers that won’t play games and buyers with the same philosophy.

There is a difference between offering something lower than the asking price and making a lowball offer that is insulting.

@Color of Light

Negotiation is a game, and also an art. Since “negotiable” is the seller’s idea, the seller needs to come up with a starting price to negotiate from. When the buyer is ready to talk price with the seller, ask the seller if they are ready to negotiate back and forth and arrive at an agreeable price. If they say yes, then put the ball in the sellers court, and ask the seller what is the starting point of their negotiable price? If they can’t come up with a starting price, then be prepared to walk away (just like when dealing with a car sales person).

By having the seller state the starting negotiable price, the buyer can counter a fair offer off that figure. If the buyer jokingly says 50K on their 5K horse, then the seller can jokingly respond with some equally joking low offer. Hopefully both will laugh, and then get down to serious business.

If the seller can’t come up with a starting negotiable price, tell the seller to give you a call when they come up with their starting price and when they are ready to negotiate. How many sellers would let a potential buyer slip through their hands, since finding interested buyers can be hard to come by to start with?

Also, if the buyer counters the offer and the seller doesn’t like the offer, tell the seller you are “negotiable” and to give you a call if they are still interested.

Same principal as:

[saultgirl]

@SnicklefritzG

Yes, they could counter offer, but there are a lot of sellers that will walk away from people who lowball them.

I honestly think this happens a lot less than people fear it will. The buyer has the advantage. If the seller really wants to sell, they should know the value of “a bird in hand”. If they don’t want to negotiate the price, they should state “firm” on the sales ad.

Maybe it depends on everyone’s definition of “low-ball” offer. I wouldn’t offer $2k for a horse listed at $20k, but would you consider $12k a low-ball offer?

[SnicklefritzG]

Many people feel that negotiating 10-15% off the purchase price is fair.

In your example, asking for 40% off the asking price is too much. Yes, I would consider it a lowball offer assuming the horse is as advertised and has no health issues.

If the PPE turned up an issue that required serious maintenance and the buyer were still interested, it might be on the borderline of fair depending on the problems found.

’

@saultgirl

I honestly think this happens a lot less than people fear it will. The buyer has the advantage. If the seller really wants to sell, they should know the value of “a bird in hand”. If they don’t want to negotiate the price, they should state “firm” on the sales ad.

Maybe it depends on everyone’s definition of “low-ball” offer. I wouldn’t offer $2k for a horse listed at $20k, but would you consider $12k a low-ball offer?

[netg]

I think if they say negotiable, being upfront by saying “this is what I was thinking, but I haven’t found comparable horses to be able to check what is really fair - what do you think?” keeps it clear that you, too, are negotiable. Some sellers are willing to cut prices as low as 1/2, but you just don’t know until you discuss. You also need to see how you feel about the horse.

To me, for an off breed, the biggest question is the feeling of adjustability and elasticity. A second level horse who you can easily get to sit, who springs off the ground and lands softly as a well bred purpose bred does (keeping in mind there are plenty of crappy warmbloods out there, too!) is worth a lot more than one who can be packaged into an ok picture, but isn’t adjustable, has a tight back, etc. The adjustable one will be the one you can progress with and learn with, the one you have to teach to have elasticity will be the one you’re stuck at second with for a while before the horse is ready to move up, if you’re able to fix those issues. To me, if the elasticity is there I don’t give a flip what the breeding is.

My older guy, I had a budget, and it was 2/3 of what seller had advertised him for (I never saw the ads until after I had him) but she knew my budget was lower. He had made it clear he hated previous people who tried him, and that he liked me - so she knew he had been above my budget and offered him to me for the lower price.

My 8 year old mare, I had a price in mind for a young horse in general, but she stuck in my head. We split the price between what I’d been thinking and what the breeder was asking - and I think we were both happy with it.

My youngster came from my trainer’s breeding program. We were talking about some foals I knew for sale who I liked, but I told him that if money were no object his youngster would be the one I would want, no question. Since my gelding isn’t ready to retire yet and I want to keep him going until he is, that was one hesitation regarding timing, plus I simply don’t have the kind of money I think my mare could go for if really marketed. Because my trainer and his wife were breeding for themselves mostly, they really don’t want to sell horses and send them off elsewhere, aren’t really looking to make a ton of money, and she’ll stay in training so there’s a bonus to them there. I ended up getting her for a price I never would have offered, because it would feel insulting to offer - and it’s all I could afford to pay, and they know me and wanted me to have her so they made the offer to me. I didn’t negotiate from there, because it’s already far less than I think she’s worth. We’re all thrilled with the deal, I think, but I didn’t know how negotiable they would be.

[PlanB]

@SnicklefritzG

Many people feel that negotiating 10-15% off the purchase price is fair.

In your example, asking for 40% off the asking price is too much. Yes, I would consider it a lowball offer assuming the horse is as advertised and has no health issues.

If the PPE turned up an issue that required serious maintenance and the buyer were still interested, it might be on the borderline of fair depending on the problems found.

I think $12 would be a good place to start. Seriously, if the horse is priced at $20k “negotiable” I think its a safe bet that they will take less than $18k.