When a seller says price is negotiable

[Color_of_Light]

@SnicklefritzG

Many people feel that negotiating 10-15% off the purchase price is fair.

In your example, asking for 40% off the asking price is too much. Yes, I would consider it a lowball offer assuming the horse is as advertised and has no health issues.

If the PPE turned up an issue that required serious maintenance and the buyer were still interested, it might be on the borderline of fair depending on the problems found.

@saultgirl

I honestly think this happens a lot less than people fear it will. The buyer has the advantage. If the seller really wants to sell, they should know the value of “a bird in hand”. If they don’t want to negotiate the price, they should state “firm” on the sales ad.

Maybe it depends on everyone’s definition of “low-ball” offer. I wouldn’t offer $2k for a horse listed at $20k, but would you consider $12k a low-ball offer?

Some sellers want to play games too, just like some buyers do. Negotiating is like ping-pong ball. If the seller can’t counter a lowish offer, then it’s not negotiating and the seller should just cut through the games and just state their price. I agree that 10-15% is what’s common. 40% off is probably way too much but the “negotiable” seller should counter to see if they can arrive on an agreeable number. “Thank you, but no. I’ll take $16K. Firm.”

I agree that low ball offers probably happens a lot less than people fear it. I think the problem with horse people trying to negotiate prices is that they let their emotions get involved too much. It’s a business transaction. If the negotiable seller walks away due to a low ball offer, that seller was not really up for negotiating a sale in the first place.

Both buyers and sellers seem to forget that if one party walks away, but they still have interest in buying or selling to the other person, there is no harm in calling them back to see if the other party will reconsider.

[SnicklefritzG]

The bolded part is the key point. They offered you the horse at a discount and you took it, recognizing that it was a great deal. The fact that everyone is happy is important.

There are others who would have continued to negotiate and that is where the process becomes insulting to the seller. I know one very well known rider/trainer who was interested in a particular horse, went to try it, the seller offered them an attractive price off list because they liked the seller and this person proceeded to bargain further. I had been there at the time (at the invitation of the potential buyer) and saw and heard everything first hand. This person said later they got a steal of a deal but wanted to “double steal” to get an even better deal. That’s greedy. Not surprisingly, this person doesn’t have a very good reputation in the area I later found out…

Some people like doing that kind of bargaining but it often borders on obnoxious.

@netg

[snip]

My youngster came from my trainer’s breeding program. We were talking about some foals I knew for sale who I liked, but I told him that if money were no object his youngster would be the one I would want, no question. Since my gelding isn’t ready to retire yet and I want to keep him going until he is, that was one hesitation regarding timing, plus I simply don’t have the kind of money I think my mare could go for if really marketed. Because my trainer and his wife were breeding for themselves mostly, they really don’t want to sell horses and send them off elsewhere, aren’t really looking to make a ton of money, and she’ll stay in training so there’s a bonus to them there. I ended up getting her for a price I never would have offered, because it would feel insulting to offer - and it’s all I could afford to pay, and they know me and wanted me to have her so they made the offer to me. I didn’t negotiate from there, because it’s already far less than I think she’s worth. We’re all thrilled with the deal, I think, but I didn’t know how negotiable they would be.

[netg]

@SnicklefritzG

The bolded part is the key point. They offered you the horse at a discount and you took it, recognizing that it was a great deal. The fact that everyone is happy is important.

There are others who would have continued to negotiate and that is where the process becomes insulting to the seller. I know one very well known rider/trainer who was interested in a particular horse, went to try it, the seller offered them an attractive price off list because they liked the seller and this person proceeded to bargain further. I had been there at the time (at the invitation of the potential buyer) and saw and heard everything first hand. This person said later they got a steal of a deal but wanted to “double steal” to get an even better deal. That’s greedy. Not surprisingly, this person doesn’t have a very good reputation in the area I later found out…

Some people like doing that kind of bargaining but it often borders on obnoxious.

Totally agreed. I might have said I still can’t make it work, which would have been fine. But trying to negotiate from there would have been rude.

I tend to think asking for that price would have been, too - but their offering it because of the other aspects (including they’ll continue to get training/board money for her) helped make it worthwhile to them, and I was glad we talked about it!

[Color_of_Light]

@SnicklefritzG

The bolded part is the key point. They offered you the horse at a discount and you took it, recognizing that it was a great deal. The fact that everyone is happy is important.

A little along the lines of what @netg experienced in the seller making her an offer would be for buyers who are interested in horses listed as negotiable to approach it in a similar way. First establish that you really want the horse and that you are a great match for their horse. Then ask the seller to “make you an offer” or “How much will you take for Dobin?”. Sometimes what the seller says will surprise you. They might want to play the negotiation game, or they might just cut through the chase. If they really need to or want to sell to you, their responding offer might be surprisingly lower than what you were expecting. Like what @SnicklefritzG says, the fact that everyone is happy is what’s important.

[soloudinhere]

@PlanB

I think $12 would be a good place to start. Seriously, if the horse is priced at $20k “negotiable” I think its a safe bet that they will take less than $18k.

I would not respond to an offer of $12k on a $20k horse. I would assume the buyer doesn’t know what they’re doing or isn’t serious. That is a lowball offer I wouldn’t waste time countering. $15k might be an offer worth countering.

I would consider $18k a reasonable offer on a horse listed for 20 and would probably accept that on the spot.

[PlanB]

It’s funny, because I was just reading a Chronicle article about buying & selling, and one of the “etiquette rules” was that a buyer should be prepared to pay at least 75% of the asking price.

[exploding_pony]

I have a totally different position on this - a horse is worth what you are willing to pay for it. I have paid more than a horse is worth, because it’s the right horse for me. Right decision because it was the right horse for me.

You also have to consider who the seller is. I have bought a couple of horses from prominent judges and trainers. Personally, I would not low ball someone in that position. It’s likely that I will be dealing with them again in the future and I don’t want to offend them.

I also would not adjust the offer price based on a PPE. I don’t want to buy an unsound horse, so either it is the right horse and it has a solid PPE or I pass if they PPE is not acceptable. An unsound horse is much, much more expensive than a sound horse at any price.

[scruffy_the_cat]

Thank you everyone. I love that this discussion has morphed into a more general discussion. It has been helpful to me and I hope it will be helpful for folks searching for the same information at some later date.

[pluvinel]

@soloudinhere

I would not respond to an offer of $12k on a $20k horse. I would assume the buyer doesn’t know what they’re doing or isn’t serious. That is a lowball offer I wouldn’t waste time countering. $15k might be an offer worth countering.

I would consider $18k a reasonable offer on a horse listed for 20 and would probably accept that on the spot.

Then you might lose out on a sale…you can’t win the game if you don’t play the game

@PlanB

It’s funny, because I was just reading a Chronicle article about buying & selling, and one of the “etiquette rules” was that a buyer should be prepared to pay at least 75% of the asking price.

Because horse people live in some other universe and don’t consider buying and selling horse to be the buying and selling of property.

And it is articles like this COTH article that make people reluctant to make offers which distorts the marketplace…

I consider that a horse is a heartbeat away from potential life-ending injury…so you better be able to kiss away the purchase price.

Then again, I am not an Olympic contender…but I HAVE paid more for a horse than for my F-250, so we’re not talking New Holland rejects here…and I do believe in making low offers.

But I also have paid the asking price without negotiating. You never know what is the sellers price if you don’t probe around.

Bottom line is to know your market and value of the product.

[Halt_Near_X]

@Color of Light

First establish that you really want the horse and that you are a great match for their horse. Then ask the seller to “make you an offer” or “How much will you take for Dobin?”.

Every time someone does this to me (no matter what I am selling), I am tempted to increase the ad price by 10-20%. Ask me to negotiate against myself, and I’m going to make sure I come out on top…

OP, for what it’s worth, my horse sold for 20% of asking. I am an amateur owner/not a professional seller. For various reasons, I was handling most of the up front sale contacts, not my trainer. The buyer’s offer was less than I really wanted but circumstances worked in her favor, so I accepted that offer without counter offering.

[saultgirl]

@soloudinhere

I would consider $18k a reasonable offer on a horse listed for 20 and would probably accept that on the spot.

If the seller accepts the offer on the spot the buyer probably could have negotiated a bit harder

[soloudinhere]

You can choose to play the game when the other party is serious. I don’t assume someone making an offer of 40% less than asking to be serious. They are tirekicking low ballers. So I don’t counter. If they choose not to increase their offer, they didn’t want my horse, they wanted whatever they could get a deal on. I’d consider 20% off to be low-fair for starting price. And I don’t engage with people who want me to throw down a number first. My opening bid was the asking price. Your move if you want to negotiate.

too many people seem to think that horses are commodities and there are a million more like this one. I disagree, so again, if there’s another one you like better, buy that one.

[pluvinel]

@soloudinhere

You can choose to play the game when the other party is serious. I don’t assume someone making an offer of 40% less than asking to be serious. They are tirekicking low ballers. So I don’t counter. If they choose not to increase their offer, they didn’t want my horse, they wanted whatever they could get a deal on. I’d consider 20% off to be low-fair for starting price. And I don’t engage with people who want me to throw down a number first. My opening bid was the asking price. Your move if you want to negotiate.

too many people seem to think that horses are commodities and there are a million more like this one. I disagree, so again, if there’s another one you like better, buy that one.

Horses ARE commodities…especially geldings. They are all a heartbeat away from dog food…especially unproven young ones…which is what I buy.

I will agree that asking price is justified with increase training…but some “trained” horses are mental and/or physical wrecks.

If you assume that low ballers are tire kickers and won’t counter, then you may have lost a potential sale, because you don’t know how high the prospective buyer will go.

[exploding_pony]

Just to clarify - I own three horses and none of them are a heartbeat away from dog food.

[pluvinel]

@exploding pony

Just to clarify - I own three horses and none of them are a heartbeat away from dog food.

Sure they are, you must don’t want to face reality…Google Hickstead…the show jumper…

Or closer to home…what a friend found one morning.

[right_horse_at_the_right_time]

@exploding pony

I have a totally different position on this - a horse is worth what you are willing to pay for it. I have paid more than a horse is worth, because it’s the right horse for me. Right decision because it was the right horse for me.

You also have to consider who the seller is. I have bought a couple of horses from prominent judges and trainers. Personally, I would not low ball someone in that position. It’s likely that I will be dealing with them again in the future and I don’t want to offend them.
.

Absolutely this regarding “right horse.” (See my forum name ;).).

I bought Right Horse because he felt right. Cluster of a sale because the middleman trainer is well known for her antics and dishonesty. He was sold to me as a specific WB breed and he wasn’t. No biggie. I paid more than likely others would have…but he’s worth what I paid and much more because it’s a fit. So what is worth, really?

Personally I’m not worried about offending anyone with a low offer. I will pay what I think is a good price and that either works or it doesn’t. Not looking to get away with a steal like a used car or new sofa. It’s an animal. If it’s the right fit, the right situation, for me, it will happen.

I’m an AA who doesn’t scrimp on care or anything…horse is extremely well cared for and not in any way run into the ground, and that’s not a secret. When and if I ever buy another horse, based on the due diligence I would want to do, the seller would likely want to vet me as well. I imagine that the questions I would ask would likely result in quick sellers not wanting to work with me, which is fine. Price is not the most important part of the equation. Not everyone works this way, and I get it.

[soloudinhere]

@pluvinel

If you assume that low ballers are tire kickers and won’t counter, then you may have lost a potential sale, because you don’t know how high the prospective buyer will go.

That’s fine. I’m not obligated to sell to the first person who darkens my doorstep with a check. Thinking that I am is the first mistake in negotiating.

[scruffy_the_cat]

@soloudinhere, remember that in this case the seller already said the horse was “$X, but that’s negotiable.” What if you had a horse that you said that about? How would you prefer the buyer approached you?

[soloudinhere]

@scruffy the cat

@soloudinhere, remember that in this case the seller already said the horse was “$X, but that’s negotiable.” What if you had a horse that you said that about? How would you prefer the buyer approached you?

A fair offer. I’d consider a fair offer to be 20% less than ask, if the seller says they’re negotiable, then they are expecting an offer, but that doesn’t mean opening the door at 50% of ask is reasonable. The seller has already opened the negotiation with their asking price. Now it’s your turn.

That assumes that the horse is priced fairly. If someone wants $50k for an unbroken 3yo, I’m not likely to even enter in the conversation or look at a vastly overpriced horse.

[piedmontfields]

When I hear something like “in this case the seller already said the horse was “$X, but that’s negotiable.””, I think something like this is going on:
-The horse has been for sale for awhile and hasn’t sold. And the seller wants them sold before winter/soon.
-The horse is a bit of a difficult sale—hard to match to a buyer. That could be for any number of non-concerning (size, breed, color, appearance, location, age) or concerning reasons.
-The seller’s primary concern besides selling the horse/finding the horse a new owner is a good match. They are willing adjust on price to make that happen.

It could be that in talking to you, the seller decided you were a thoughtful, saavy horseperson who would be a good home. Many sellers will help that kind of sale happen—especially if any of the other things are going on, too.