When a stranger enters your property at night... WWYD?

[QUOTE=Pennywell Bay;7784607]
In PA a state trooper was shot coming out of the barracks with another trooper so yes, it sadly happens. And just by owning a gun does not mean you will not be the victim. If you have the balls to point it you sure as hell better be ready to shoot it to kill or be prepared to potentially have is wrestled away from you and used on YOU.

Back to the topic at hand, “typically” making lots of noise, having ANY barking dog and shouting out a window “I HAVE CALLED THE COPS” will deter “most” intruders. Excluding a psycho who it really doesn’t matter how fast the cops can try to get there.

My best advice, from a woman who lived alone on a big farm in the middle of nowhere is prepare yourself but don’t live in total fear. Have a plan, have either an escape route or a “safe room” with a phone.[/QUOTE]

One small suggestion, as you are right on.

When the cops get there, never ever say that you shoot to kill.

If you have a nasty prosecutor, he will do his best to paint you as some gun nut who is just waiting for the chance to kill someone.

You shoot to STOP an attack. If the bad guy dies…oh well, sometimes that happens.

[QUOTE=Pennywell Bay;7784607]
In PA a state trooper was shot coming out of the barracks with another trooper so yes, it sadly happens. And just by owning a gun does not mean you will not be the victim. If you have the balls to point it you sure as hell better be ready to shoot it to kill or be prepared to potentially have is wrestled away from you and used on YOU.

Back to the topic at hand, “typically” making lots of noise, having ANY barking dog and shouting out a window “I HAVE CALLED THE COPS” will deter “most” intruders. Excluding a psycho who it really doesn’t matter how fast the cops can try to get there.

My best advice, from a woman who lived alone on a big farm in the middle of nowhere is prepare yourself but don’t live in total fear. Have a plan, have either an escape route or a “safe room” with a phone.[/QUOTE]

One small suggestion, as you are right on.

When the cops get there, never ever say that you shoot to kill.

If you have a nasty prosecutor, he will do his best to paint you as some gun nut who is just waiting for the chance to kill someone.

You shoot to STOP an attack. If the bad guy dies…oh well, sometimes that happens.

You did the right thing. My only recommendation going forward is some more motion sensor lights - maybe on the driveway - so the place lights up like a Christmas tree if someone comes onto the property.

As an aside, I do believe that a process server would do this. If they are trying to serve someone personally, they often try between 7 and 9 pm on a weeknight.

Wendy - why is this scary? Because people are nuts.

[QUOTE=trubandloki;7784561]
I guess I am just paranoid or something but I can not think of one good reason why someone would be walking around my front yard in the dark, after driving by slowly.[/QUOTE]

car problems, lost pet, lost driver, injured wildlife, loose livestock, medical emergency…

[QUOTE=cssutton;7784623]
One small suggestion, as you are right on.

When the cops get there, never ever say that you shoot to kill.

If you have a nasty prosecutor, he will do his best to paint you as some gun nut who is just waiting for the chance to kill someone.

You shoot to STOP an attack. If the bad guy dies…oh well, sometimes that happens.[/QUOTE]

Wait - so you shoot to kill, but never say you shoot to kill? And never say you shoot the air, or the ground, or you are “brandishing” the gun - so what exactly do you say?

[QUOTE=myrna;7784187]
i don’t understand the whole “get a gun” mentality.[/QUOTE]

I might … IF the OP hadn’t said repeatedly she doesn’t want one around for a very valid reason. :rolleyes:

My husband and I live on a farm that’s off the beaten track. Not really the middle of nowhere, but you don’t see many strangers around here. We have a .22 rifle for dealing with coyotes and dog packs that bother the cattle. But that’s it for firearms.

We have a territorial dog that makes a helluva racket when ANY vehicle but ours comes up the drive, never mind someone knocking on the door. If my husband was away from home and something like what the OP described happened, I would call my neighbors, call the police, and stay low until help arrived. No way in hell would I confront anyone at night.

OP, you have a good reason for not wanting to have a gun around. My advice is get to know your neighbors. They apparently saw something weird and reacted, so that’s good. Have a plan B if neighbors aren’t around – a way to get to your vehicle and get away if you need to or some way to stay out of view until help arrives.

Write down the phone numbers of the police and your neighbors and make a list for your mother of what to do. #1 being call for help, then call you; and #2 being don’t answer the door unless it’s someone listed in #1.

Others have mentioned motion sensor lights - probably a good idea along with an alarm system for your house.

[QUOTE=clanter;7783782]
question is how fast can he run? we have a 120# GSD whose name is Lots of Teeth (well that’s her nickname, real name Sage)[/QUOTE]

Love this! I have 2 GSD as well. There is a sign out front (pic of GSD) that says “I can make it to the fence in 2.8 Seconds. Can you?”

So far, no problems :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=trubandloki;7784561]
I guess I am just paranoid or something but I can not think of one good reason why someone would be walking around my front yard in the dark, after driving by slowly.
There are way too many crazy people in the world to risk my family.

No harm is done to the stranger by the OP calling the police.[/QUOTE]

Right. We are nowhere near a main road, so it took specifically turning and effort to get to us. I think it takes some kind of crazy for a process server to have shown up that time of night and gone through a closed gate onto private property. I’m VERY glad the sheriffs made contact with him to let him know it wasn’t appropriate. I’m having dinner with two lawyers and a paralegal tonight, so I’ll ask them about finding out who it was given the police at least wrote something up. The fact he was wandering around our property for 20+ minutes, didn’t just go straight to the door and knock like a normal person would have, was VERY suspicious!

[QUOTE=joiedevie99;7784649]You did the right thing. My only recommendation going forward is some more motion sensor lights - maybe on the driveway - so the place lights up like a Christmas tree if someone comes onto the property.

As an aside, I do believe that a process server would do this. If they are trying to serve someone personally, they often try between 7 and 9 pm on a weeknight.[/QUOTE]

I do believe process servers would, too, though most would try a day delivery BEFORE trying a night delivery.

I want to get arena lights put in - getting motion sensor lights wired up along the drive at the same time is an EXCELLENT idea. It’s about 300’ from the gate to the house, so just a flood light motion sensor at the house is late to react. We have had trouble with our barn motion sensor light (put in for our convenience) never working for more than a month at a time, so recommendations on picking lights are also welcome… :slight_smile:

Thanks everyone for the advice - lots to read and think about here!

ETA: I do like the dog for defense method a lot. My chow mix I used to have (she died a couple years ago) kept out an intruder once. Someone tried to come in my backyard and actually broke the gate behind them trying to escape her teeth. We had hopes my mom’s chow mix would protect similarly, but turns out he’s a chicken…

[QUOTE=Trakehner;7784563]
That’s fine, criminals need defenseless sheep too! Bleating for the police is special, you’ll have a nice wait, and remember, the police do not have a duty or legal responsibility to come to your aid, they’re only responsible for the public, not the individual.[/QUOTE]

Not everyone on here is American. Americans have different laws and perspective on guns than many other countries.

America also has a higher percentage of crimes committed with a firearm than many other countries (note not crime rate but specifically crimes involving a firearm).

This doesn’t mean Canada or Europe are necessarily always safer than the US but the attitude towards guns is a bit different.

[QUOTE=ChelseaR;7784803]
America also has a higher percentage of crimes committed with a firearm than many other countries (note not crime rate but specifically crimes involving a firearm).[/QUOTE]

In Australia and England, due to politicians destroying their citizens and making them into peasants, more people are being attacked. “Hot Home Invasions” are endemic (a hot invasion is when the criminals attack a house when the people are home). Nothing to fear, the thugs have guns/weapons and the homeowners are pretty powerless. Crime has gone down in Detroit since the black police chief said, “Get a gun, we can’t be there when you need us”. Home invasions have gone down especially since the youtube video of the mother shooting at two punk home invaders who were sent running.

[QUOTE=Gloria;7784709]
Wait - so you shoot to kill, but never say you shoot to kill? And never say you shoot the air, or the ground, or you are “brandishing” the gun - so what exactly do you say?[/QUOTE]

You say: I feared for my life. I am very upset and I don’t want to talk about it without my lawyer."

Even cops will not talk about a shooting until they talk to their lawyer.

And again I say that you had better have the facts on your side that will convince a reasonable person that you were justified in that fear.

Even if you get an unreasonable cop and a worse prosecutor, you do have a good chance to get a reasonable jury.

The fact that you live way out, in the woods, on a dark night and someone is in your yard is not a reasonable reason to shoot someone.

As for shoot to kill…if you take the concealed course you will be taught to shoot at “center mass”, which is the area between the breast bone and the belt buckle. You will be taught to shoot until the person stops advancing toward you…assuming that the advancement is threatening in nature sufficient for you to believe you life is in danger.

Since most of the vital organs are within that area, it is only a matter of chance as to whether any are hit. Therefore, a certain percentage of bad guys will die.

But what happens to many who have not thought it through or who are not familiar with their state’s laws is that they shoot their mouth off to the cops while under the influence of an adrenalin supercharge and say something like:

“I told the S.O.B that if he took one more step I would kill him.”

Bad trouble in court if you get the wrong PA.

A short story. Really happened two or three years ago.

I forgot what state, but at one of the many quick service stores with gas.

Young fellow either just out of service or still in, don’t remember exactly came out of the store with his girl friend and some guy tried to rob him.

He whipped out his pistol and shot the bad guy twice in the chest and then shot him in the head before he hit the ground. Fantastic shooting.

The PA charged him and in court made a really big deal out of the fact that he shot him three times, once in the head. The PA painted him as a blood thirsty nutcase who was just itching to kill.

In his defense, the soldier testified that he shot the bad guy that way because that was the way he was taught.

My guess is that he was probably ex special forces to learn how to shoot a pistol that well.

But in any case, it shows how careful you must be about what you say. Had he said something like “That trash deserved to be killed” in his early on statement, he would have been toast.

As it was, he was found not guilty.

Maybe someone here read the same story and will remember more detail.

[QUOTE=jacksmom;7784701]
car problems, lost pet, lost driver, injured wildlife, loose livestock, medical emergency…[/QUOTE]

None of which will be offended if a police officer shows up to ask them what they are doing wandering around the yard with a flash light after dark.

I admit I am having a hard time trying to picture what car trouble I would have that would cause me to wander about in the yard of someone else with a flashlight. Yes, hang near my car. Yes, maybe walk to their door to ask for a tool or phone, but wander around the yard, not so much.

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[QUOTE=trubandloki;7784988]
None of which will be offended if a police officer shows up to ask them what they are doing wandering around the yard with a flash light after dark.

I admit I am having a hard time trying to picture what car trouble I would have that would cause me to wander about in the yard of someone else with a flashlight. Yes, hang near my car. Yes, maybe walk to their door to ask for a tool or phone, but wander around the yard, not so much.[/QUOTE]

I don’t remember if the shooter was charged, but we had a sad case near here in Charlotte, NC, a year or so ago.

This huge black guy showed up on the shooter’s front porch, banging on the door and yelling. A dark night.

The home owner shot and killed him.

He had reason to be scared. The guy was huge and there is a lot of black crime in CLT.

It turned out that he had wrecked his car and probably had whacked his head and was what in a woman we would term hysterical.

And he was either a football player or ex player. I forgot which, but that would account for him being big enough to scare.

He also was a good guy, according to those who knew him.

People who own barns, farms, outbuildings, etc., need to think about what they will do when and if they find someone sleeping in their barn, farm truck, tool shed, etc.

You need to think about how you would determine whether the guy is hiding from the cops, caught in the act of stealing, or just trying to get in out of the cold.

Even catching a guy in the stall with your $500,000 race horse is not justification for shooting him.

Even so, the fact that you caught him is potentially a serious danger to your life and you can’t take your eyes off him for even a second.

Decisions, decisions, decisions.

Um, I was simply talking about calling the police. Not shooting people.

[QUOTE=myrna;7784187]
i don’t understand the whole “get a gun” mentality.[/QUOTE]

Our neighbors cat was hit but not killed by a car late one night. The poor dear was paralyzed with a broken back. They were thankful we had a .22 pistol that eased the kitty along. Guns have humane uses along with defense uses. We have several other larger pistols that would ease a horse along which I would do with a broken leg, catastrophic event where it was crystal clear survival was not possible.

100-150 years ago women knew how and used guns for protection and hunting. IMO it’s only been since about the 1940’s that American women have become quite removed from using firearms.

[QUOTE=Chall;7784337]
I looked it up for giggles: daycare center?Yup, vet clinic? yup. Landscape nursery? yup. Fabric store? Yup. Funeral home? yup. Police station? Not so much, couldnt find an article on that.
https://www.google.com/search?q=armed+robbery+of+daycare&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&gws_rd=ssl
https://www.google.com/search?q=armed+robbery+of+veterinary+clinic&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb
https://www.google.com/search?q=armed+robbery+of+landscape+nursery&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb
https://www.google.com/search?q=armed+robbery+of+fabric+store&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb
https://www.google.com/search?q=armed+robbery+of+funeral+store&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb
https://www.google.com/search?q=armed+robbery+of+police+station&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb[/QUOTE]
http://www.policemag.com/videos/channel/patrol/2014/09/officer-wounded-suspect-dead-after-south-carolina-station-shooting.aspx
http://www.freep.com/article/20110129/NEWS01/101290414/Detroit-police-release-video-ambush-station

I like the better/motion light idea. I like the security system idea, but I’ve never been able to justify the cost personally. I think the gun think is a pretty big decision, and classes are a must.

I just wanted to comment on dogs. I have Dobermans. My 70lb adult rescue, laid back, couch-potato-chill Doberman with the deep bark and ridiculously, gigantic teeth is just as scary to a trespasser as my working-bred, can’t sit still for 10 minutes (really), needs a constant task or he gets destructive, drivey, one-person only, protection/working line dog…that I train constantly and is a huge time commitment, and I would go so far as to say a pretty big lifestyle choice. He drives my husband insane if I’m gone, and this is the guy’s third Doberman.

The point is any somewhat big dog that barks (which you can teach them to do) is going to do the job and is probably a lot less work than a young working dog. Unless you can afford a trained protection dog (still need to be able to control it) or are really into dog sport. YMMV.

[QUOTE=trubandloki;7785023]
Um, I was simply talking about calling the police. Not shooting people.[/QUOTE]

UM…

“I admit I am having a hard time trying to picture what car trouble I would have that would cause me to wander about in the yard of someone else with a flashlight. Yes, hang near my car. Yes, maybe walk to their door to ask for a tool or phone, but wander around the yard, not so much.”

You were talking about why anyone would be wandering around your property at night.

I gave an example of just why someone would.

You are correct that in that case calling the cops would have had a better outcome.

[QUOTE=cssutton;7785009]
I don’t remember if the shooter was charged, but we had a sad case near here in Charlotte, NC, a year or so ago.

This huge black guy showed up on the shooter’s front porch, banging on the door and yelling. A dark night.

The home owner shot and killed him.

He had reason to be scared. The guy was huge and there is a lot of black crime in CLT.

It turned out that he had wrecked his car and probably had whacked his head and was what in a woman we would term hysterical.

And he was either a football player or ex player. I forgot which, but that would account for him being big enough to scare.

He also was a good guy, according to those who knew him.

People who own barns, farms, outbuildings, etc., need to think about what they will do when and if they find someone sleeping in their barn, farm truck, tool shed, etc.

You need to think about how you would determine whether the guy is hiding from the cops, caught in the act of stealing, or just trying to get in out of the cold.

Even catching a guy in the stall with your $500,000 race horse is not justification for shooting him.

Even so, the fact that you caught him is potentially a serious danger to your life and you can’t take your eyes off him for even a second.

Decisions, decisions, decisions.[/QUOTE]
http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-detroit-porch-shooting-20140807-story.html