When a stranger enters your property at night... WWYD?

[Guilherme]

[QUOTE=katarine;7786759]
Our place lights up like Christmas with motion lights on the end of the barn and the cabin (our old house).

I have two spotlight floods on each of the four corners of the house, they are all on the same switch- one switch and BAM it’s lit up.

We are armed, and you asked, so that’s part of my answer. I am not comfortable with every gun in the house, but the shotgun and the 22 target pistol I can manage without thinking.

If a complete stranger rolled up on me alone in the situation you described? I’d call 911 and my neighbor who is closest to me, grab a gun and vanish into the woods, armed, hide & wait. We are snugged down in a wad of trees, I can easily hide.

There is nothing inanimate that I own that cannot be replaced, I’m not going to try to Rambo some meth head (no matter his color - or hers).

Now if they go to loading horses? I’m going to shoot the minute that looks like a possible motive for being there. Everything else? pft. Take it.[/QUOTE]

This plan is about as good as it gets. It’s got all the elements:

Take steps for your own protection
Call 911
Hunker down and let the professionals to their jobs

G.

[Major_Mark]

When I finally move to my new farm in the spring (now dealing with the foot dragging electric company), I intend to deploy my solution to the problem: get the biggest electric radio controlled car I can find, mount an audio/video wireless baby monitor on it, and a speaker/radio, and maybe a remote controlled bearspray gizmo (heh, like the waspspray idea), and when my perimeter sensors detect an intruder, stay in the house and drive the “Security Droid” out to meet them. If they respond by stomping the droid , THEN open up on them with the 30.06 from the house. Is simples. Plus very useful for chasing deer/bears/moose/coyotes from the property. That’s just how I intend to roll at Omega Station, my Science/Engineering/Agricultural research station. Just wait til you see the horse barn. It will be patterned after a Navy shipboard helicopter hangar. Rather advanced features when I’m done fabricating it. Based on years of visiting lots of other people’s barns.

BTW, you’ll have to excuse cssutton. I know him. He’s old. Very experienced. Been around, done everything. You shouldn’t listen to people like him. It’ll deny you the adventure of finding stuff out on your own.

[Guin]

Ah, the “decent blacks.” The ones who smile and say “Thankee, massa”?

[Hulk]

the question When a stranger enters your property at night… WWYD ? Step one… unleash the hounds. I always have a rabble o dogs at hand, so I just open the door. All those rescues I take in gotta be good for something right. Step two… Walk out on the porch with a pump action shot gun rack it and ask what they want. Step three if evil intent is clear let them know just what a bad mistake they have made, and give the dogs the command to have at them. If at this point they want to keep up with evil intent, they will find out super quick like we don’t play that game here.

Call this harsh if you will, but the authorities are over an hour away from here. That’s if they are in. If they get a call in on night shift they don’t fill it. So the wait for the authorities would be 9 or 10 hours. We are very rural here so you better be able to hold your own. We do not luxury of a close by department.

[DHCarrotfeeder]

[QUOTE=GoForAGallop;7783760]

• Nothing says you can’t have a fake gun. Seriously. They make some pretty realistic plastic handguns. Staying safe is always the best choice until the cops arrive, of course.[/QUOTE]

Walther makes some nice pellet gun pistols that are both entertaining to plink with, inexpensive, and quite realistic compared to a Walther handgun.

Should you decide to keep a gun in your home, there are plenty of solutions to avoid curious or misguided fingers from using it. Combination locks work, especially if your mother or any children do not know the code. Now combination locks are a bit burdensome when you don’t have much time and are scared, but in this case that would not have been an issue.

David

[cloudyandcallie]

[QUOTE=mp;7786478]
Hispanics must be illegal to pose a threat. Blacks are threats, no matter what.

Good to know.[/QUOTE]

Well, we all know how “they” are, don’t we? After all, in my neighborhood in Atlanta, we had the guys who shot up my neighbor’s house over a dispute with her 2 sons (one race car driver’s team vs. another race car driver’s team); the creepy teen who put socks on his hands and over his shoes to peep in the windows of the house rented by flight attendants; and oh yeah, the guy who got 2 of his friends from other neighborhoods to go with him to the south of Atlanta to shoot and kill 2 men and rob them and torch their house. Oh wait, all of the foregoing criminals were all WHITE MALES, all indigenous to the metro Atlanta area except the main instigator in the murder case…he was a WHITE MALE from NYC. We had more white crime in my neighborhood too. The WHITE TEENS who burglarized people. (not me, I had aussies and mixed breed dogs and even old alley cats in the house who would all scream at the windows and doors if anyone came up to the house. And yeah, I had the reputation of being a gun toting tough prosecutor, so my house was pretty safe.)

The responses remind of of when I was a kid, grew up on a peninsula on a salt river, so to ride my horses out of the neighborhood I would ride through an area a quarter mile down the road. About 30 or 40 black families had houses there. They all looked out for me, young girl on pinto horse, usually bareback in short shorts. I was never told to fear them. However, my mother refused to let me ride on one road as there were some really rough white people who lived there. Mother called that road “Tobacco Road.”

I guess a lot of people didn’t grow up with Jews and black people living right next to them (I did, right next door) and we all do tend to fear the unknown or different people. But you can educate yourself about minorities and other people.

[Emilia]

[QUOTE=Gloria;7784709]
Wait - so you shoot to kill, but never say you shoot to kill? And never say you shoot the air, or the ground, or you are “brandishing” the gun - so what exactly do you say?[/QUOTE]

Yes, it is confusing, isn’t it.

I have read Cssutton reply and other comments and I appreciated the summary on gun use in self-defense very much.

This sounds crazy, but, apparently, in recent years, criminals have gained a lot of rights and measures are being taken in some states so that the citizens do not overdo their right for self-defense.

As a consequence, there is a discrepancy between theoretical advice and practical one you get from the cops and other law enforcement personnel (sometimes on the site right after they arrive).

So, I would like to add, what I have been taught about “real life” self-defense issues by various cops, agents, and lawyers with vast experience.

I am using generic “you.”

In many places, you cannot start any sort of defense until a person enters house, so backyard does not count (= unleashing hounds in the yard can get you sued, if they hurt anyone and this includes the criminal).

As Cssutton already stated, if using gun, you have to be scared for your life (and you will have to be able to prove it later on), hence, you cannot shoot it in the air or ground, since you are shooting to stop the attack- you have to aim at the perpetrator.

Repeatedly, cops and agents told me that, if you are not prepared to aim a gun at a living person, you should not pull it.

One of the reasons is that many criminals know that ordinary people are not used to operate guns, let alone hurt anyone in this manner, and will exploit it (such as, take that gun away from you).

Even, if you are ready to aim and shoot, you should first, if possible, put more obstacles between you and the perpetrator, such as barricading yourself in a room, as this will strengthen your case later on (=You did everything you could to prevent one-on-one battle).

If you end up one-on-one with someone, do your best to stop the attacker to the point of killing him/her, so there is only one story to tell.

Awful, not?

You are probably going to get sued by criminal’s family members anyway, but, again, your case is going to be much stronger that way.

It is a perplexing issue and not the one I would like to tackle for real!

A story to exemplify the “mixed up” state of affairs:
A woman shooting an intruder (notorious criminal with an awful intent) on her porch, i.e. before he got in. Cops arrive and … pull his dead body in the house, before proceeding with the official business.

Another one:
A 911 call recording of a woman, who barricaded herself in a room with her child and a gun. She got on phone with the dispatcher. The perpetrators found the room and started to dig in and she pleaded the dispatcher for the support. She repeatedly asked, if she could shoot and the dispatcher repeatedly advised her to do whatever it took to keep herself and child safe. She did not seem to get it, so she kept asking, whether she could shoot. It was horrible. For both, really, because dispatcher could not say it out loud. In the end, the dispatcher said her “do whatever it takes” mantra in such a manner, she finally got it and, when the guy got in, she shot him dead. Never charged and, thanks to that call, never second-guessed.

Self-defense might become a tricky issue even here in the US (it is already a tricky issue in Europe, as far as I know).

[Cabaret_SK]

[QUOTE=cssutton;7786263]
Where in Canada do you live?

What percentile is black?

What percentile is illegal Hispanic?[/QUOTE]
I can’t answer for vandenbrink, who lives in a different part of Canada.

But I will try and answer you for my city, with data I could find from 2006.

I live in Regina. Highest crime & murder rates per capita in Canada.

Percentage black? 1.1%
Percentage hispanic? .04%
*NOTE: Not separating out your “illegal” descriptor. Why.

(As an aside, how do you count/collect data on if someone is “illegal” or not - I’m assuming if someone is in a country illegally they aren’t taking the census. And why would it matter illegal vs legal in the context of this thread.)

[QUOTE=cssutton;7786534]A clever reply, but clever does not equal informed.

All you need to do is look up the crime statistics.

No, not all blacks are threats. But the percentage involved in crime is huge.

Even the decent blacks admit it.

I eat in one of the best places in town twice a week. Most of the staff is Hispanic. Nicest most polite people you will ever meet.

However they are legal. The statistics in our jails show the difference.

I asked the lady in Canada a question. If you know the answers, feel free to educate us.

I certainly have no intention of starting a argument or even a discussion on race.

The lady in Canada indicated that there is some difference in our two countries.

I suspect that persons living along the southern border with Mexico or those living in Detroit could explain to her why they want to keep a gun close to them.

There is a difference according to where you live and the makeup of the residents.

That said, there is no area in the US where one can ignore the need to take precautions.

And anyone who lives in the country and owns barns, outbuildings, property easily stolen is a potential target. That does not mean be afraid…it means be smart and alert.[/QUOTE]

According to your theory on who commits crimes, that 1.14% of my city’s population must be REAL busy! :rolleyes:

But anyway, murder/crime capital of Canada again this year (3.8 homicides per 100,000 people - so fewer than 10 a year). The only people I know who own guns hunt, live in rural areas, or target shoot. Except for the target shooters (3 people), they all own rifles/shotguns/long guns.

We have what was deemed Canada’s worst neighbourhood a few years ago. Have I ever felt unsafe in that part of town? Yeah. Have I been worried I was going to get shot? No. Stabbed would be much more likely, but since most of the murders here are gang-related I’m not particularly worried.

Unless I lived in a rural area, I personally see no reason why I would need or want to own a gun. And even then, it would be mostly for the purposes of putting down livestock if needed or stopping coyotes.

There, I provided you with the data you asked for. Can you do the same for the comments you are making?

[Major_Mark]

According to your theory on who commits crimes, that 1.14% of my city’s population must be REAL busy!

Don’t be so snarky. You know very well who’s responsible for the mayhem in Regina, and it ain’t whitey. For those playing along at home, Google “Regina gang names”

Sutton’s point still stands. You have to evaluate personal safety in relation to location, and one of the leading indicators is the percentage of minorities. Pointing out the glaringly obvious does not make one a Ku Klux Klanner…

[Calamber]

[QUOTE=Alex and Bodie’s Mom;7786418]
Quotes from the original post:

Last night as I parked the trailer to unload my horse in the dark after a lesson up at my trainer’s, someone drove past our place into the desert, drove around there some, turned around and parked outside our (latched, not locked) property gate.

We went inside, locked the doors, and soon saw him on our property walking around with a flashlight in the dark, wandering around the house and near the arena which is at the front of the property (barn is at the back and had lights on - he stayed out of the lights.)

Guy was pounding on the door a few times and continuing to walk around our property as if looking for a way in,

I see where you might have gotten confused by the statement that she had been at her trainers’, but she was at home. I still don’t buy the “my phone was broken” thing.[/QUOTE]

Indeed I did misunderstand, it sounded like she went inside the trainer’s place and locked the doors and was watching their property from the trainer’s location.

[Whitfield_Farm_Hanov]

We have a saying about helping people now, whether on the road or if they are at the door; “they might be Jesus or Ted Bundy”! Be on the defensive always, NEVER open your doors even in broad daylight to someone you don’t know. If they truly need help, you can make a call for them keeping a locked door between you.
Remember, Ted Bundy was a good looking, clean cut, charming guy.

[FalseImpression]

[QUOTE=Preposterous Ponies!;7784412]
Reading these types of threads makes me so glad I live in Canada. Not that bad things don’t happen in Canada, but I sure as hell do not feel the need to keep pepper spray / guns / bats / ect. on hand.[/QUOTE]

Exactly…even in the countryside!! I hope I never have a car breakdown or an emergency anywhere in the States… wow…

[FalseImpression]

[QUOTE=onthebit;7785667]
Mr. Onthebit is Canadian and when we married and he moved here (to the U.S.) he had about 30 rifles. Maybe he and his friends are just oddball Canadians but they ALL have guns in their homes.[/QUOTE]

yep… I don’t know anyone either who owns a gun of any king. My retired police officer friend NEVER took his home. Plus in Canada, you are not allowed to keep gun and ammo in the same place and it has to be underlock… so, by the time, you get one and then the other…
I asked my BOs if they had a gun and felt the need for one. They said if needed, the farmer across the road is a hunter and has one, but no they don’t have any and sure don’t feel any need for it. They are on a fairly busy road, but quite a way from the road too.

[FalseImpression]

[QUOTE=onthebit;7786170]
I am married to a Canadian. He does not share your views, nor do any of his friends or family members whose homes I have visited. Many do live on farms but not all of them. All have rifles. When he lived on his farm in Canada Mr. Onthebit slept with a loaded rifle by his bed every single night. He saw nothing odd about it nor did his friends and family who had the same practice. He DID think it odd when I refused to let him do that after we were living together. I finally consented to let him have an unloaded rifle by the bed with some rounds stored in his bedside table. Now that we have a three year old son obviously even that isn’t an option and the unloaded rifles live in the locked gun safe along with the ammunition.[/QUOTE]

Definitely ODD!!! Paranoid much?
I guess it’s a good thing he moved to the States where he can enjoy his guns and may have a need for them…
and how many times did he even have an “opportunity” to use his loaded rifle by his bed??? I think it was basically a good old boys club… sure is NOT common…

[Horsegal984]

[QUOTE=FalseImpression;7795059]
Exactly…even in the countryside!! I hope I never have a car breakdown or an emergency anywhere in the States… wow…[/QUOTE]

The polite thing to do in this situation is to approach the front door, ring the bell or knock, then step back out off the porch or stoop. If someone comes to the door you say “Hello, I had XYZ emergency can you please make a phone call for me?”
I have found that while all my impromptu knocks on random people’s doors have been during daylight hours most are quite accommodating and friendly if you follow common societal norms.

My elderly neighbor had her alarm triggered one night about 11pm. The alarm called the cops, she called my father. He picked up his handgun and a flashlight to do a perimeter check. When the police pulled into the drive he set the gun/flashlight in the grass and stepped back with his hands up while they checke him and his story out. Thankfully it was a false alarm that just cost everybody a little sleep.
I grew up with guns but didn’t own one until after I was attacked by an acquaintance and realized that in the event of a repeat attack I could not possibly out muscle him, even if by some chance he wasn’t armed. This attacker also has my address, both home and work. He lives and works quite far away, there’s no good reason for him to show up around here. The minute I saw him the 911 call would be made and I would back myself into a corner and fight with everything I have. He will not hurt me again. He will never have the opportunity to cause my daughter a fraction of the pain he caused me. I don’t want to fight, but if I have to I’ll fight like a cornered cat.

“It is better to avoid than to run; better to run than to de-escalate; better to de-escalate than to fight; better to fight than to die. The very essence of self-defense is a thin list of things that might get you out alive when you are already screwed.” ~ Rory Miller in Meditations on Violence

[vandenbrink]

[QUOTE=cssutton;7786263]
Where in Canada do you live?

What percentile is black?

What percentile is illegal Hispanic?[/QUOTE]

forgot about this thread until now. I will use average statistics for the Province I live in. I travel extensively for work and feel just as safe in almost every area of Ontario as I do at home. According to Wikepedia 4% Black 1.4 Hispanic.

Several other Canadians have already answered with similar answers. We don’t carry guns, and most don’t have guns, and don’t have them ready as a method to defend themselves…they are for other purposes.

I never feel as safe when travelling through the US, and a number of these comments confirm I should be worried.

[onthebit]

[QUOTE=FalseImpression;7795069]
Definitely ODD!!! Paranoid much?
I guess it’s a good thing he moved to the States where he can enjoy his guns and may have a need for them…
and how many times did he even have an “opportunity” to use his loaded rifle by his bed??? I think it was basically a good old boys club… sure is NOT common…[/QUOTE]

What a nasty and unproductive comment FalseImpression.

[JanM]

My first line of defense is retreat if possible. You won’t help anyone by confronting a person. I’ve known a couple of people who came home, and the front door was open, and they assumed the kids left it, or it blew open. Both had burglaries occur, but fortunately the burglars had left. If you suspect someone is in a barn or your house, retreat first, call the police. I’m sure the police would rather go out to a hundred calls that didn’t have a break in, over having to bring a body bag for the person who barged in, and ran into an intruder.

After Hurricane Ivan landed, and trashed my entire town, I had no power for days, so I did open the windows at night until it cooled off. Because of the trash that the drug dealer across the street attracted, I had a shotgun on the table next to the bed, until I closed the windows. Some situations you do what you have to, to protect yourself. And where I live now is a new subdivision, but on former farmland. So if I need help my neighbors will be there long before the Sheriff’s deputies arrive. Fortunately, my neighbors are all combat vets, and many have very special training, so my neighborhood is very quiet.

[FalseImpression]

[QUOTE=onthebit;7795315]
What a nasty and unproductive comment FalseImpression.[/QUOTE]

Maybe, and I am sorry, but come on… I think he and his friends were watching too many American movies. I cannot imagine where in rural Ontario you would need to sleep with a loaded gun… no where!
Would a coyote/wolf come into his room to attack him…

And if he really did…I would not brag about it… it says more about him than about Canada…

[onthebit]

[QUOTE=FalseImpression;7796917]
Maybe, and I am sorry, but come on… I think he and his friends were watching too many American movies. I cannot imagine where in rural Ontario you would need to sleep with a loaded gun… no where!
Would a coyote/wolf come into his room to attack him…

And if he really did…I would not brag about it… it says more about him than about Canada…[/QUOTE]

My goodness you aren’t exactly coming across as a non-judgemental Canadian. Thanks for the “apology.” How rude. Who ever claimed he kept the rifles for personal protection? That isn’t why he has them here in the states either. But thanks for the assumption. So yes, pretty much all of his friends and family in rural Ontario have rifles in their house. I am so sorry to disappoint you on that topic. But maybe you will get lucky and they will all leave the country too? Would that make you happy or make you feel good about yourself?

To explain further he lived on a 1500 acre farm. He raised livestock which meant he had baby animals, which meant he had more than his share of bears and wolves trying to eat said baby animals. In his opinion that’s a pretty damn good reason for sleeping with a loaded rifle. And clearly you don’t realize there is a specific statute in Canadian law that exempts you from having to keep guns and ammunition separate if you keep them for livestock protection/predator issues.

Goodness if you were the typical Canadian being so nasty it would make me glad I don’t live there. But thankfully I know you are not a typical Canadian. Are you capable of having a pleasant conversation or no?