When even a six-figure salary isn't enough to compete

[LakeEffect]

This is it, really. I think sometimes we of the significantly-more-priveleged-than-most sometimes forget that we are comparing ourselves to the real 1%.

We see photos on social media of stunning arenas and six-figure horses that shine from the efforts of the best grooms in the country/world; we know people who know people who spent the winter showing in Florida; we are encouraged by our trainers who make it seem like it’s what one does, no questions asked. Hell, from day one, when someone told me I could trade scrubbing and hauling buckets for a 20-minute hack at closing time (as long as I picked the arena after), I thought I had a chance. We are made to believe in this sport as much as in this country that we CAN get ourselves there, only to realize it’s not worth compromising your child’s entire college education (sic) on bringing your worth-it’s-weight-in-gold but not nearly competitive enough 3’ horse to Florida for a single season.

Sure, someone might find that journey valuable and pursue it at all costs. But it is far from easy and far from commonplace.

[Scribbler]

Over the past decade the USA has seen the biggest gap in incomes since the robber baron days of the 1890s. Much of that gap is powered by new fortunes in emerging fields like tech and finance, also by the out size payoffs in entertainment. And international capital. The top has gotten dizzyingly far away. This is impacting everything, not just horses. It’s more obvious in some areas, less so in others until a tech billionaire buys a ranch and everything changes.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

@LakeEffect

We are made to believe in this sport as much as in this country that we CAN get ourselves there, only to realize it’s not worth compromising your child’s entire college education (sic) on bringing your worth-it’s-weight-in-gold but not nearly competitive enough 3’ horse to Florida for a single season.

The education is an interesting point. When I was at a largely hunter show barn–not a super-high-end barn, but a show barn–there was a group of young riders going to shows every weekend, and occasionally to away shows. Not an insignificant expense. Yet when some of them went to college, the parents were very adamant that they go to schools where they could get scholarship aid of some sort (because they were academically much more competitive than the rest of the students, or that the college was a state school, or they could commute from home and save on board). As a child, going to college was considered the focus of every financial decision made by my (divorced) parents. Even when they shelled out for pricey summer programs, it was only for stuff they were convinced would improve my chances of getting into the best school that I could.

It was just weird to prioritize horse showing to me more than college, based on how I’d been raised. I guess I can understand for a child who really isn’t fired up about college and wants to make a stab at going pro in the horse world, but that wasn’t the case for these kids (they definitely were recreational riders).

[soloudinhere]

The thing with college today is at least undergrad has become basically like “second high school” in that you need a bachelors to get into most jobs. As such it matters a lot less where you went except in a few very small sectors, such as if you want to get into investment banking, your path will be a lot harder from Joe Schmoe State than from a big name school with good connections.

Given how (IMO, overpriced) college has become, to me, prioritizing spending $200k on a college education isn’t worth the return since once you’re in the job market for more than a year or two, your undergrad becomes basically irrelevant. If I had a child, I’d tell them to find ways to go inexpensively/for free too. Student debt is a waste of time and I’d rather fund my local barn owner than some mega-university’s new football stadium and dorm with jacuzzis.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

I agree that not going into debt for college is certainly preferable, to put it mildly. Despite going to name brand colleges myself. College costs are out of control.

But as wonderful as the lessons are horses teach us, unless a child is seriously thinking of making horses a career, blowing the cost of a college degree on horse showing when you can’t really afford to do so and hoping the kid gets a scholarship or telling the kid to go to a state U (regardless of what the student wants to study) doesn’t seem like a great plan, either. And, TBH, while staying out of debt is always better, going into debt for degree is better than for horse showing (in cold, practical terms).

[soloudinhere]

But that’s exactly my point. The average student should go to a state u, or even community college with guaranteed transfer, because an undergrad degree is so ubiquitous you should get the one that costs you the least.

[clanter]

@soloudinhere

The average student should go to a state u, or even community college

maybe a Trade School? Where they actually learn a trade that pays money would get you into the six figure plus class.

[Scribbler]

@Impractical_Horsewoman

@LakeEffect

We are made to believe in this sport as much as in this country that we CAN get ourselves there, only to realize it’s not worth compromising your child’s entire college education (sic) on bringing your worth-it’s-weight-in-gold but not nearly competitive enough 3’ horse to Florida for a single season.

The education is an interesting point. When I was at a largely hunter show barn–not a super-high-end barn, but a show barn–there was a group of young riders going to shows every weekend, and occasionally to away shows. Not an insignificant expense. Yet when some of them went to college, the parents were very adamant that they go to schools where they could get scholarship aid of some sort (because they were academically much more competitive than the rest of the students, or that the college was a state school, or they could commute from home and save on board). As a child, going to college was considered the focus of every financial decision made by my (divorced) parents. Even when they shelled out for pricey summer programs, it was only for stuff they were convinced would improve my chances of getting into the best school that I could.

It was just weird to prioritize horse showing to me more than college, based on how I’d been raised. I guess I can understand for a child who really isn’t fired up about college and wants to make a stab at going pro in the horse world, but that wasn’t the case for these kids (they definitely were recreational riders).

We don’t know that the parents wasted money on horses that they would otherwise have spent on college. These very practical suggestions about funding college could be the parents thinking about how much debt the kids start life with. And what else could be done with the money. Also getting and keeping academic scholarship to college is in fact a plus on your lifetime resume for grad school or professional school.

Maybe the parents are looking down the road at law school or medical school where you are more likely to have to pay your own way. As far as PhD, though you should go somewhere that wants you enough to fully fund you.

Did 4 years of riding in high school cost $200,000 or $50,000 a year like full tuition at a top school?

[paw]

@Scribbler

Did 4 years of riding in high school cost $200,000 or $50,000 a year like full tuition at a top school?

Either, quite possibly, depending on the level…

And yes, whether the money spent for the junior was wasted or not depends on the kid, their prospects, and their individual selves - does making sure the child is at the barn (showing or not) at 8am on a weekend morning mean that they’re not out partying with friends the night before? Does it give them some reason to get up every day?

The calculus for a parent may not be straightforward.

[clanter]

@paw

whether the money spent for the junior was wasted or not depends on the kid, their prospects, and their individual selves

we spent a Lot of money on our four kids showing their horses across the country but we were using the horses to teach the kids how to deal with life. It is very disappointing for a child to have an entry where they did all they could only to come out without being tied in a class.

We would go back over just what was done, how things were to help them understand. Then plan for the return.

Their were some judges that we just learned that they did not prefer our horses so we stopped showing before them.

Horse world is a microcosm of the real world, being such it allows a parent to have a little more control on how to deal with failures. The kids learned to recover from a disappointing class/show and come back.

They do not teach that at universities.

All of our kids learned how to recover from a failure, they are all successful in their very competitive careers today

[findeight]

Hunter/Jumper is, generally, the most expensive discipline to seriously persue. And WEF, closely followed by the mega circuit shows, are the most expensive venue of this most expensive segment of the overall show horse population.

Dreams are fine but have seen so many aiming too high get so discouraged trying to attain that apex that they walk away from all horse involvement in disgust. This comes at the cost of enjoying any involvement in horses. Its kind of an all or nothing deal.

ALL horses and disciplines are expensive in varying degrees but most can be enjoyed more reasonably. If you really do love being around horses and competitions your goals there are other alternatives. If you just want to compete in the elite level shows in a discipline rooted in tradition and (at least) perception of social status, it might not be attainable within your means.

Hey, I showed Hunters and I’m solidly middle class, could not afford much elite level showing or Florida, I get it. But I love horses so enjoyed what I could do. If I ever get back into it though, will go back to QHs. They ain’t cheap but nothing like a Show Hunter.

[IndysMom]

@soloudinhere I agree. Having been at both a state school and a expensive school, I feel that I got as good or better an education at the state school!

[vxf111]

I’d like to go back to QHs too. But it’s hard to find one nowadays, at least in my area.

Breed shows were always surpassingly inexpensive compared to open shows, at least in my experience. Same venues, often equally good judges, half the price.

[Paint_Party]

@vxf111

Breed shows were always surpassingly inexpensive compared to open shows, at least in my experience. Same venues, often equally good judges, half the price.

These same reasons are why, for the last few years of showing hunters, I stuck to the larger county circuit shows in SoCal. Same judges, same venues, same jumps… and a big soiree at the year-end championship shows.

Now I’m in Arizona doing Paint breed shows. I have laughed, honestly, at the lower cost of showing Paints vs. the typical multi-day hunter show, even county-level ones.

Yes, I know. I know! Not the same pond, not the same fish. But I still have an opportunity to aim for goals with my nice horse, enjoy a competitive setting with my horsey friends and get all dressed up in clothes I’d normally never wear. And it’s an affordable adventure!

[FLeventer]

I make six figures now. I live in one of the highest cost of living areas.

I used to ride full time in FL where I had my own farm, rig, two trucks, and taught lessons while bartending three to four nights a week. I prob brought in 35k to 50k a year after expenses. I lived in a fairly rural area that was still within an hour of ocala and had about four to six horses at any given time. It was a different life than what I have now.

Now I have two, boarded 20 mins from home. I work strange hours and I’m always on call and though I technically have the professional job my mother always told me would make me financially secure in life, it sucks to know that I’m paying for two more than what I used to pay for six horses. Im also paying double my farm mortgage on rent for a 1500 sq ft apartment bc the price of living means that ill never be able to afford a house in this area.

I feel you and I’m sorry. Im sorry to all others who don’t have the money to compete but honestly we are lucky to have horses. Heck I want to be able to show again every other week and bring my horses along but right now, I’m a bit stuck up here for the moment. I am buying my time and then ill make a break back to my farm. The five year plan.

Priorities are key though. Maybe having the goal of showing at the level you want isnt realistic at the moment. I know for me that I cant keep an UL horse going anymore due to time. But for 3’ and below with some schooling jumper shows and dressage I can have them fit for that and they are usually one day and cheap.

I’m not doing four day long events anymore but instead I’m taking a lesson 3x a month and showing below my capabilities where I’m comfortable and my horse can get worked 4x a week and still be safe and healthy. Some rides are 20 mins because I worked a 12 hour shift and it’s 830pm when I can get to the barn. Just prioritize what makes sense and what you can financially and mentally do.

[McGurk]

You must be in the UK? Or another part of the world where live hunting is banned?

In the US, many hunt clubs still hunt live fox and coyote, a few brave Mid-west hunts hunt bobcat.

Yes, all the hounds are doing is tracking a scent. That’s true whether it’s live prey or a drag line laid with a scent bag.

What makes it NOT like hunting is that there is no intent to capture or kill the prey. The sport is in watching scent hounds work a line and solve the puzzle the quarry has left and in the challenge of keeping up with the hounds on horseback while they work.

My favorite parts are viewing the unruffled and unworried quarry looking back at the hounds or leisurely strolling along, knowing the hounds are well back and confused and the “mark to ground” - the hounds are so pleased with themselves for solving the scent puzzle and the huntsman dismounts and wades into the pack dispensing praise, pets and cookies.

I like to imagine the fox sticking his head out of the earth and blowing a raspberry as we all ride away.

[PonyPenny]

This is an interesting topic. My adult daughter was fortunate to receive a full ride scholarship for riding at Oklahoma State. She then did an accelerated BSN program. She has no debt at all and being a nurse has made great money. If she needs extra cash, she works extra shifts, especially when the weather is bad. She does not own a horse (her old horse became mine and we now do dressage), but rides regularly through lessons and shows when she can. She is banking her money for a CRNA program which is her ultimate goal. She has no significant other to worry about and her rent is $1200 for a studio. She lives in NC, but previously lived in MO. Not owning a horse right now has been a lifesaver and a lot less stressful.

[MrsFitzDarcy_amp_Feliks]

@FjordBCRF

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[Mander]

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