My daughter had this happen twice this season! First time, she should have been Champion, and they awarded her nothing. After checking, they changed the ribbons. It was really awkward since the riders awarded the prizes were barn-mates and had already taken pictures together, etc.
Second time was for a series cooler. Same facility. Organizers were quite snotty about it (had the feeling it had been happening a lot). They had an extra cooler so gave that to my daughter, but no announcement was made noting the correct winner (they had made a splashy announcement for the other rider and did a presentation in the ring). Left a bad taste.
I wish they would get someone who is at least competent at that kind of thing to do the tabulations. Sure it can happen. But twice in one season to the same person? Seems like they were making way too many errors.
Apparently this “once in a lifetime thing” didn’t even happen the first time. How awful of the person to keep the cooler.
The way I read it, nobody TOLD the person they didn’t actually win the cooler.
So I can’t see judging the person as ‘awful’ if they had no idea.
I think the point was, there are occasional situations in which people may choose to let sleeping dogs lie rather than tell them hey, you didn’t win, give the cooler back. I’ve been in that situation with a belt buckle and $100. If someone TOLD the ‘non-winner’ that he didn’t actually win…yes, it would have been pretty crappy if he kept the belt buckle. But nobody told him the scores got mixed up, the ‘non-winner-but-really-the-winner’ (me) was supportive in letting the whole thing go. I don’t see anything ‘awful’ in that.
I think that in a very few special situations, the ‘sportsmanlike’ thing can be to let it go.
[QUOTE=ElisLove;7238027]
THanks for the reply.
As an add on question. What if the mistake rider was a young kid? Does this make a difference to whether you tell them and/or take the prizes away?[/QUOTE]
That happened to me when I was about 8 years old. They said I was champion in Short Stirrup but then they said “oops.” My mom just said it was a mistake and the other girl did better that day, so she deserved the big ribbon and whatever they were giving out. I don’t recall getting upset… I didn’t deserve the ribbon, no matter what age I was at the time.
[QUOTE=Fillabeana;7239069]
The way I read it, nobody TOLD the person they didn’t actually win the cooler.
So I can’t see judging the person as ‘awful’ if they had no idea.[/QUOTE]
I read the last part (“I don’t think they got the cooler back”) to mean that they asked for it and didn’t get it. If they didn’t ask for it, there would have been no reason to point out that they likely didn’t get it. But you could be right.
I can’t begin to understand what kind of grown up this person was that no one wanted to be the one to tell her she didn’t actually win the cooler.
I think it depends on the show and the situation… how a show would handle a mistake in championship vs show series/year end award; and it would also depend on the level of the show - i.e. rated vs unrated riding club/organizations. The organizations I belonged to would also have extra championship ribbons and trophies in the event of a tie. If a mistake was made and the rider left, we would let the rider keep the trophies and then award the rightful rider the loot and then the year end points would be adjusted accordingly. For us it would’ve been too much of a headache to try to get the prizes back but would let them know about the mistake in the points.
At my first hunter jumper tiny schooling show and my first class as a kid I won my Novice Equitation flat (there were two of us in the class). They pinned me and then after photos and my mom proudly writing the details on the ribbon, they announced the mistake and took the ribbon back. I wasn’t a terrible greedy kid…but it stung. In fact, my family was fairly limited in budget and I was riding a green OTTB. I still don’t understand why the show handled it this way. And maybe the parent’s of the older girl with the finished show horse could have used it as a lesson for her rather than pursing the rectification of the mistake. I’m sure she went on to earn many more blues in her life than I did.
This is why I no longer offer “math” as part of my judging services. I’ll pin the class but YOU do the math!
It’s pretty hard to approach a young kid to tell them about a point mistake.
I’ve sponsored the high point hunter award at a local horse show series for several years, and when there’s been a mistake, or there were two kids who helped a horse get points, I’ve just ordered an extra ribbon and sent it along with a note of congratulations. I remember being a kid and proudly putting that big long ribbon in just the right space on my bedroom wall, no matter the color.
[QUOTE=abrant;7239138]
At my first hunter jumper tiny schooling show and my first class as a kid I won my Novice Equitation flat (there were two of us in the class). They pinned me and then after photos and my mom proudly writing the details on the ribbon, they announced the mistake and took the ribbon back. I wasn’t a terrible greedy kid…but it stung. In fact, my family was fairly limited in budget and I was riding a green OTTB. I still don’t understand why the show handled it this way. And maybe the parent’s of the older girl with the finished show horse could have used it as a lesson for her rather than pursing the rectification of the mistake. I’m sure she went on to earn many more blues in her life than I did.[/QUOTE]
I’m not sure I get what you’re saying here. You would have rather they let the other kid who won the class keep the 2nd place ribbon? And why should the other child learn a lesson? Why isn’t an opportunity for you to learn a lesson? Ie, mistakes are made, not everybody wins, fair is fair, etc… Furthermore, you don’t know that the parents of the class winner kicked up a fuss about it.
I’m sorry, I just can’t get behind you saying that it was an opportunity for the other child to learn a lesson. You could maybe argue sportsmanship, but in reality it’s just a lesson that life isn’t fair, and even when you win, sometimes you lose…? This besides the fact that it isn’t in the child’s control how the show decides to fix the mistake.
Also, the other kid winning more ribbons/your green OTTB are non-factors here. But FWIW, my “fairly limited budget” meant I didn’t get to show as a kid. Period.
Interesting thoughts everyone.
I would like to think that I, as an adult, would say in this situation “let the kid have this one”. This was a fun show for god’s sake. It’s a hell of an introduction to the sport. The competition was close, the incident had to do with a missed and corrected lead.
Champion at a rated show? Yeah, that’s a big deal. Definately fix it. Kids at a schooling show? Don’t be a jerk under the guise of teaching “life lessons”.
I assumed the partents were involved because it was the girl’s mother who took to ribbon away from me. I don’t know if I was a parent I would have the balls to do that to someone else’s kid.
I think learning to be generous is a life skill? The reality of life is that it’s not all about winning. Call me whatever you want but in the office its not a cutthoat battle of winners and losers 
I competed against that girl the entire show series and she won every class until the final class of the season, I beat her. Looking back as an afult, I’m pretty sure it wasn’t a clear win, it was a pity win. Didn’t ruin the moment for me though and it certainly didn’t turn me into a degenerate adult. It was an act of kindess, though I admit somewhat misguided.
Can I ask, why should they not correct the winner abrant? The girl who did won I’m sure wanted to win just as bad as the girl who got the ribbon but did not actually win so why should the true winner get stiffed out of a ribbon she earned?
TO add>> Was it b/c it was your first show that they should have left it? If so, how would the judge/other girl/other girl’s trainer/mom know that it’s your first show?
Is it cause of your age? I imagine the other girl was roughly of the same age, so why should she lose out of what she truly won?
Just trying to understand people’s thoughts on this. Most I understand but I’m a bit confused by this stance.
[QUOTE=ElisLove;7239307]
Can I ask, why should they not correct the winner abrant? The girl who did won I’m sure wanted to win just as bad as the girl who got the ribbon but did not actually win so why should the true winner get stiffed out of a ribbon she earned?[/QUOTE]
Yeah exactly. As an 8 year old I was told to give the ribbon back then go and congratulate the other girl who actually won. I was happy to do so. She deserved it.
Because it’s a moment in time. A small schooling horse show 15 years ago. Because I’ll remember that forever as my first horse show experience when really the importance to the universe of correctly pinning a 2 entry novice equitation flat class at a fun show is almost nothing. Like the others have posted experiences of making it right for the winner while retaining the dignity of the others involved. That seems like the right thing to do, especially when it’s judge/show office error.
But really now, thinking about it, with a horse doing AA hunters, all I really care about is the round. If he puts in good round I couldn’t care less about ribbons. He’s actually put in some solid rounds where the judges haven’t used him. That’s horse showing, you win some you lose some. You just keep moving forward. You certainly don’t ask to see the judges card because you’re sure you beat someone else 
[QUOTE=abrant;7239317]
Because it’s a moment in time. A small schooling horse show 15 years ago. Because I’ll remember that forever as my first horse show experience when really the importance to the universe of correctly pinning a 2 entry novice equitation flat class at a fun show is almost nothing. Like the others have posted experiences of making it right for the winner while retaining the dignity of the others involved. That seems like the right thing to do, especially when it’s judge/show office error.
But really now, thinking about it, with a horse doing AA hunters, all I really care about is the round. If he puts in good round I couldn’t care less about ribbons. He’s actually put in some solid rounds where the judges haven’t used him. That’s horse showing, you win some you lose some. You just keep moving forward. You certainly don’t ask to see the judges card because you’re sure you beat someone else :)[/QUOTE]
Agreed. That’s my point I guess - you don’t remember the ribbon from that first show, you remember the experience!
[QUOTE=harrisburgrules;7239323]
Agreed. That’s my point I guess - you don’t remember the ribbon from that first show, you remember the experience![/QUOTE]
Well the ribbon thing is kind of tied in with the experience. I remember really just being thrilled to be there and I loved the horse I was riding. I would have been thrilled to lose every class. What I’m saying that the better thing to do and what I would do today is say " huh, judge must not have seen the lead, good ride though" and move on! Filing a complaint to have the class “correctly” pinned, I’m sorry, will always be something I will consider to be extremely tacky. And as far as the show organizers, giving away a spare blue and adjusting points would have been a much more discreet way of making the correction, especially at that level.
I think it’s also pretty important to note that a lot of people working these shows are volunteers, who are short handed and very busy. In my experience, Judges don’t often deal with the “math” as one poster put it.
In order for many of these events and shows to even take place, a lot of people give up their own free time to help out, and their not always pros in the relm of horse show points etc. Unfortunately these mistakes do and will happen, and occasionally come with the territory.
That being said, I think some understanding on the parent/riders behalf is warranted. I also think judges/stewards could handle this with a bit more tack in some situations. Instead of a “We were wrong, you’ve lost you’re placing” how about a “We mis-calculated and you tied for place with other rider congrats, heres you’re same place ribbon”
I realize this won’t work in all situations, but being a bit more tactful as both a rider/parent, as well as a official, is always a viable option.
[QUOTE=mscho;7239335]
.
That being said, I think some understanding on the parent/riders behalf is warranted. I also think judges/stewards could handle this with a bit more tack in some situations. Instead of a “We were wrong, you’ve lost you’re placing” how about a “We mis-calculated and you tied for place with other rider congrats, heres you’re same place ribbon”
I realize this won’t work in all situations, but being a bit more tactful as both a rider/parent, as well as a official, is always a viable option.[/QUOTE]
But they didn’t tie so you would be lying and taking something away from the true winner?
Abrant, how do you know this also wasn’t her first show? Just because she was on a seasoned show horse and then had a successful show season doesn’t mean it wasn’t her first time at that level either! Are you saying that they should’ve known it was your first time and so ignored the mistake?
