When you Win but Don't Win Champion

[mscho]

[QUOTE=ElisLove;7239339]
But they didn’t tie so you would be lying and taking something away from the true winner?[/QUOTE]

You’re right. And depending on the age of the kids, this wouldn’t be required. If you’re child is old enough to explain this situation to, and have them understand and be disappointed, but still understand, thats one thing.

On the other hand, a lot of Children won’t take this as well. Why take the fun out of what is suppose to be a positive, fun experience? The parent of the child that had truly “won” could certainly explain this to their child. But to tear away that sense of pride and accomplishment from a child who thinks she’s done a good job, based on some math is pretty cruel in my eyes. Why can’t they both come out winners and make a bad situation positive, instead of making it overall bitter?

call me an idealist…

[Release_First]

[QUOTE=ElisLove;7238030]
So there was a rule or standing procedure at that show that if given incorrectly it is taken back and given to correct rider? Is there or do you think there should be a rule in regards to this at all shows?[/QUOTE]

The kid was 12 in this instance and no I don’t believe that there was a rule but if your didn’t win it how can you keep the prizes? This was a losing situation all around. My student felt terrible and the child who won it didn’t get the recognition at the show.

[Pennywell_Bay]

[QUOTE=mscho;7239353]
You’re right. And depending on the age of the kids, this wouldn’t be required. If you’re child is old enough to explain this situation to, and have them understand and be disappointed, but still understand, thats one thing.

On the other hand, a lot of Children won’t take this as well. Why take the fun out of what is suppose to be a positive, fun experience? The parent of the child that had truly “won” could certainly explain this to their child. But to tear away that sense of pride and accomplishment from a child who thinks she’s done a good job, based on some math is pretty cruel in my eyes. Why can’t they both come out winners and make a bad situation positive, instead of making it overall bitter?

call me an idealist…[/QUOTE]

I totally understand what you are saying, and am not the cold beast my post is going to make me seem…but it’s about sportsmanship. Yes, even to a child. Not everyone gets an A, not everyone wins, and people make mistakes that affect others.

It is a situation that stinks. I feel for everyone involved and I’d be mad as a hornet if it happened to my kid. But if someone else really won- it’s our jobs as adults to guide the child- yes , be disappointed- but you were still 2nd out of X!!! What an accomplishment!! It’s NOT all about the ribbons and it shouldn’t define their sense of accomplishment. A moment of disappointment- yes.

Now it’s ME being an idealist!!!

[Jeito]

It happened to friend at a horse trial several years ago. The person who was named first (and won a nice prize) had a stop on cross-country that somehow didn’t get recorded. My friend who was named second was really first, and it was her first win. The other person left by the time my friend figured it out. My friend loaded her horse and went home without saying anything, but fretted about it all night and called show management the next day. To me it seems a no-brainer. I don’t think it should be any different if it’s a child. Most kids are pretty smart and resilient.

[BAC]

[QUOTE=Release First;7238025]
I had a rider win a local medal finals. Ribbons, trophy, victory gallop, the whole bit. I got a call the next day that there had been a mistake and she did not win it and she had to give everything back. It happens.[/QUOTE]

I think this was the correct way to handle the situation although I have no idea if there are rules in place to cover this type occurrence.

[SSacky]

I had it happen. Technically by ribbon points it was a tie, but I had more weighted points because I had won the flat which had many more riders, so they gave me the champion ribbon and cooler (non embroidered, this was a small show). They were supposed to calculate ties by who won one of the o/f not who had more points. So I was actually reserve champion and reserve champ had won.

Luckily, neither of us had left yet and everything was swapped. Kinda sucked since the champ prize was way nicer :p, but rules are rules

[eclipse]

So if we decide not to hand the ribbons back to the rightful winner, or let both keep the ribbons (you know “self esteem and all that”) where do we draw the line, where does it all end and isn’t this just part of the bigger problem with the whole “oh, can’t let some some kids not win it will hurt their self esteem” issues that are so prevelent in today’s society.

Case in point (not related to horses but it so could be and is timely with this post): One of our local jr high schools has decided that it will no longer have an honour roll, as it’s hurtfull to the self esteem of those kids that will not be getting an award. What the ??? So, to relate this to riding…are we now going to let mediocre rounds win are we now going to teach our children that “it’s ok pumpkin, you didn’t really win or earn that championship but here you go anyway” or even worse, do we totally take these away…sigh…

[trubandloki]

I think there is a big difference between not being willing to give accolades to those who do well (no honor roll) and making a huge scene when the office has made a mistake.

I am not sure there is a right or wrong way to deal with the cases mentioned here.
I mean really, how is it any different than that class where you got a much better ribbon than you thought your ride deserved because the judge did not see you blow the lead in the corner and fix it before the judge looked your way? Should you refuse the ribbon in line up or do you just take it as you did well in the ribbon lottery that day?

People make mistakes. Deal with it the best that it can be dealt with and do not turn it into something more than that.
If the rider who got the champion ribbon when they should not have has already left then sweep the fact that they got an extra ribbon under the rug, find a ribbon for the person who should have gotten it and move on. The office messing up should not become a logistical nightmare for the rider who only accepted what the office said was theirs.

[Equibrit]

The person who receives an award by mistake must be aware that they did not win it. It’s a pretty shabby act to take a prize you are not entitled to, doesn’t matter how old you are.

[overthemoon]

[QUOTE=mscho;7239353]
You’re right. And depending on the age of the kids, this wouldn’t be required. If you’re child is old enough to explain this situation to, and have them understand and be disappointed, but still understand, thats one thing.

On the other hand, a lot of Children won’t take this as well. Why take the fun out of what is suppose to be a positive, fun experience? The parent of the child that had truly “won” could certainly explain this to their child. But to tear away that sense of pride and accomplishment from a child who thinks she’s done a good job, based on some math is pretty cruel in my eyes. Why can’t they both come out winners and make a bad situation positive, instead of making it overall bitter?

call me an idealist…[/QUOTE]

Bolding is mine. I firmly believe that this a fundamental issue with today’s youth. People are afraid to have “losers”; everybody wins! Being treated like this just sets children up for failure later in life because that is not the way the real world works. Short of a leadline class, where it’s generally very small children who cannot be properly judged anyway, there SHOULD be a clear winner. Not winning shouldn’t have children crying and pouting in the corner; it should have them determined to do better. Granted, hunter judging is subjective, but WE - as adults, peers, parents, coaches - are the people that
need to teach children this!

I am so tired of hearing about the mindset that everybody needs to win. Do a little research and you’ll find sports and academic banquets getting cancelled because it’s “unfair” to those who don’t receive awards… ties being given out in tournaments everywhere for fear of stepping on toes and upsetting darling children who didn’t win… it’s just ridiculous.

Let’s teach our children to excel in sportsmanship, be gracious winners AND losers, and use a loss as motivation to do better.

/rant

[Equibrit]

Most sports were instituted to teach the character traits required to be a gracious loser, not a spoilt winner.

[overthemoon]

@trubandloki;7239657

I think there is a big difference between not being willing to give accolades to those who do well (no honor roll) and making a huge scene when the office has made a mistake.

I’ve not read a single post stating that the rightful winner made a “huge scene” over a mistake, or any posts that supported that kind of behaviour.

[trubandloki]

[QUOTE=Equibrit;7239674]
The person who receives an award by mistake must be aware that they did not win it. It’s a pretty shabby act to take a prize you are not entitled to, doesn’t matter how old you are.[/QUOTE]

Unless the division is small I can imagine lots of people have no idea where they stand. Maybe wrongly, they assume the office is not going to announce them as champion or reserve unless they earned it.

I won reserve champion once when I had not won a single blue ribbon. I actually questioned it and was shown the numbers. I had consistently gotten 2nds and a 3rd, the firsts were all over the board so in the end my points were higher.

I never knew where I stood for year end awards.

[AffirmedHope]

I don’t see this as a “everybody needs to be a winner” situation. There is a difference between giving everyone a blue for the sake of sparing feelings and giving someone a blue ribbon but then yanking it away because of a clerical error.

A child crying because they (rightfully) didn’t win is bad sportsmanship. A child crying because they we’re told they did great and won a class/division but then having it torn away is understandable and, IMO, justified. These are CHILDREN, they don’t fully understand the “life isn’t fair” concept yet, of course they are going to be visibly upset over such a situation, and I think that they have the right to be. There ARE some situations where children are rightfully allowed to have their feelings hurt without being called “soft” and “spoiled.” I think this is one of them. It’s a bit much to ask a 6 year old stop crying and suck it up, in this situation.

Should they pout and refuse to return the prize if asked? Of course not, but I would not fault one a single bit for crying over it.

[red_mares]

[QUOTE=ynl063w;7239093]
I can’t begin to understand what kind of grown up this person was that no one wanted to be the one to tell her she didn’t actually win the cooler.[/QUOTE]

Per the poster, it was a once in a lifetime moment for the “winner”, not likely to happen again. This wasn’t an 7 yro at a schooling show who could try again next week, but someone who’d been working hard & the stars finally appeared to align in their favor. I don’t blame the trainer for not wanting to be the one to break the news. Nothing like snatching victory from the jaws of defeat, only to have defeat come back & bite you in the @ss.

I didn’t read it as them anticipating her reacting badly, but that this was the one time things went right & her trainer didn’t want to be the one to ruin it.

[Mayaty02]

totally off track here, but can anyone point me to how the points are tallying for champion and reserve at USEF rated shows?

[Trixie]

Filing a complaint to have the class “correctly” pinned, I’m sorry, will always be something I will consider to be extremely tacky.

Really? So what you’re saying is that I should have let a rider who was eliminated beat me when my horse won?

I think we should hold our shows to a higher standard than that. Otherwise, why have rules? I mean, I might as well not do my hair, wear dirty breeches, and do whatever course I please because it doesn’t matter.

Disclaimer - I don’t especially care about the ribbons themselves. But they’re nice to have for photo ops, or to give to the owners of horses I’ve ridden in the past. Plus they make my trainer look good hung from her stall or banner. At shows where there are actually useful prizes, I’d be annoyed if I lost a perfectly useful cooler or nice halter to someone who I beat. (not so much on the ill-fitting and absolutely hideous shirt with the farm name on it, though. Someone else can have that).

[abrant]

[QUOTE=AffirmedHope;7239817]
I don’t see this as a “everybody needs to be a winner” situation. There is a difference between giving everyone a blue for the sake of sparing feelings and giving someone a blue ribbon but then yanking it away because of a clerical error.

A child crying because they (rightfully) didn’t win is bad sportsmanship. A child crying because they we’re told they did great and won a class/division but then having it torn away is understandable and, IMO, justified. These are CHILDREN, they don’t fully understand the “life isn’t fair” concept yet, of course they are going to be visibly upset over such a situation, and I think that they have the right to be. There ARE some situations where children are rightfully allowed to have their feelings hurt without being called “soft” and “spoiled.” I think this is one of them. It’s a bit much to ask a 6 year old stop crying and suck it up, in this situation.

Should they pout and refuse to return the prize if asked? Of course not, but I would not fault one a single bit for crying over it.[/QUOTE]

Agreed!

Also, as far as life lessons go. If you think that you are always going to get credit for what you do and think that no one should ever suceed over you while doing less… The corporate world is going to be a HUGE shock, lol. I know for a fact that the management over me takes the credit for a lot of what I do. If I do something tremendous, I don’t always get “the ribbon”, I get the satisfaction of doing my job well and job security. In short, learning to be a good winner is just as important as being a good loser.

[Trixie]

Yeah, but if you’re always having the credit stolen from you by someone who should’ve been fired three years ago for stealing your work, you’re going to be pretty darn frustrated after a while. I know. I quit a job for that reason. There’s a limit to what “personal satisfaction” can do when you’re regularly passed over for the dude who was not only not playing for the team, but was regularly failing on his own. And in fact? Sometimes that kind of thing takes away from your job security.

It’s one thing to have management take credit for your ideas. My trainer and horse get the credit when I win. But I’m not about give credit to someone who is allegedly on equal footing with me who is consistently being placed above me (in the corporate world or the horse show world) when they don’t do their jobs.

[Clear_sailing]

Wow… Im not even sure how this is a question. You didnt win, you dont get to keep it, whether its a lotto ticket or a blue ribbon. Child or adult. Guess what, it was a once in a life team year for me, and no one handed me a blue ribbon at Washington, or Harrisburg because it’ll never happen again. What is that? Who thinks that way? and as a kid, I dont think I won anything. EVER. Not even by mistake. And guess what? It doesnt matter in life.