When you Win but Don't Win Champion

[abrant]

[QUOTE=Trixie;7239953]
Yeah, but if you’re always having the credit stolen from you by someone who should’ve been fired three years ago for stealing your work, you’re going to be pretty darn frustrated after a while. I know. I quit a job for that reason. There’s a limit to what “personal satisfaction” can do when you’re regularly passed over for the dude who was not only not playing for the team, but was regularly failing on his own. And in fact? Sometimes that kind of thing takes away from your job security.

It’s one thing to have management take credit for your ideas. My trainer and horse get the credit when I win. But I’m not about give credit to someone who is allegedly on equal footing with me who is consistently being placed above me (in the corporate world or the horse show world) when they don’t do their jobs.[/QUOTE]

But we’re not talking about always. If a show is always giving you the wrong ribbons you may want to find a different show series (like you did in finding a new job). If it happens occasionally and you want the world to stop and praise you, well… I don’t think that’s going to be appreciated behavior at the office.

[Trixie]

I think there’s a difference between asking for fair and correct judging at a horse show and asking everyone to stop and praise you.

[Say_Goodnight_Gracie]

Man, I can’t speak for anyone else but I ALWAYS know where I am in points standings, etc…I want to know where I stand and if I might be able to win! I would speak up and return the stuff myself if I was awarded something I know I didn’t win. (If I was on the other side I’d probably just be silently bitter about it and never go back to that show or series lol)

If it was an indvidual class, however, I probably wouldn’t care unless it was something where a division championship or points for a year-end award or something bigger like that might be at stake.

For kids, if it’s a real, rated show with points and standings I think everyone needs to be held accountable, and EVERYONE participating (children included) needs to understand that things have to be held to official standards and not everyone can win. If it’s a fun class/schooling show, I think some kind and tactful judgement can be used.

[PaintPony]

One day a friend and I got back from a horse trial where we had fun and our horses were great. I don’t remember my score but she was 2nd in her division.

She called me later that night to tell me that she had looked more closely at her dressage score and based on that, it turned out that she actually had won her division. Whoops! I guess we should have checked more closely before we went home.

She never called to tell them of the error because she didn’t really care. She also usually won a lot more ribbons than I did - I wonder what I would have done if it had been me? Been really bummed that’s for sure!

[Fillabeana]

The person who receives an award by mistake must be aware that they did not win it. It’s a pretty shabby act to take a prize you are not entitled to, doesn’t matter how old you are.

If it’s obvious, and you DO know you didn’t win it, yes, I agree.

But sometimes the ‘win’ is open to interpretation, by a judge making a judgement.

Or, in the case of year-end points, there may be a very small difference that is not obvious unless you are at every series-show, writing down every score of every competitor.

And in many non-obvious cases, there may be more sportsmanship, kindness and tact in letting it go. Even if the other party IS a ‘grownup’.

It is a LOT more difficult, emotionally speaking, to take back a prize (and photo, victory gallop, etc) after it has been given out. For this reason, I really like having ‘unofficial results’ posted/announced/given with time to question results/fix errors BEFORE the ribbons are handed over.
Like a horse race- you know who crossed the finish line first. But they don’t take the win photo before they give the other parties time to say, ‘Hey, the winning jockey illegally whipped my horse in the face, so he should be disqualified!’ and then look at the video footage to see if the claim has merit.

[crosscreeksh]

[QUOTE=ElisLove;7238027]
THanks for the reply.
As an add on question. What if the mistake rider was a young kid? Does this make a difference to whether you tell them and/or take the prizes away?[/QUOTE]

Even kids need to learn the facts of life…at least those past lead line!! It is a hard learning experience, but what about the “winner” who was denied the win?? It is a worse lesson to learn that you can get screwed even if you win!! I’d set things straight for all but lead liners and there I’d do a dublicate ribbon.

[trubandloki]

[QUOTE=Say Goodnight, Gracie;7240046]
Man, I can’t speak for anyone else but I ALWAYS know where I am in points standings, etc…[/QUOTE]

How do you manage to keep track of everyone’s points during the day?

[chukkerchild]

It’s funny, cause in this case, I would always agree that if I had erroneously won something and the show committee called me, explained, and requested the prizes (trophy, whatever), back, I would give it back for sure. I wouldn’t feel like I earned it.

BUT, my friend and I work together, and he just received an email from Payroll saying that they had accidentally paid him a bit extra for the last few months, and he could please bring them a cheque for $1600 to make up the difference? I found that appalling. It was Payroll’s mistake and now they want an instantaneous fix that will really put my buddy in a tight spot. He was not aware of the “extra” going into direct deposit every month, it was a small enough monthly amount to not ring any alarm bells. Is this the same situation??

[overthemoon]

[QUOTE=abrant;7239966]
But we’re not talking about always. If a show is always giving you the wrong ribbons you may want to find a different show series (like you did in finding a new job). If it happens occasionally and you want the world to stop and praise you, well… I don’t think that’s going to be appreciated behavior at the office.[/QUOTE]

I find it really ironic that the poster who wanted to keep their first place ribbon when they didn’t win would say something like this.

[Fillabeana]

One point to consider is that if you realize there was a mistake, that the photographed, galloped, prize-coolered and gone-home winner didn’t win but you did: If you are going to go to show management/officials, you are asking them to do something unpleasant and uncomfortable. Even more uncomfortable if the mistake was really subtle or not at all obvious, in other words the ‘winner’ would very unlikely to realize the mistake.

So going in and insisting the mistake be rectified, may be putting a whole lot of pressure on people even without considering letdown/tears/disappointment of the non-winner.

I let a win go once- the $100 and belt buckle was not worth making friends/clients uncomfortable, and there was absolutely NO way the ‘non-winner’ winner could have known he didn’t really win unless the judges told him.

Points/considerations for a ‘big deal’, like USEF team status, qualification for a championship show, big year-end award? Yeah, go to the show officials. The DID sign up for the job.
Smaller shows can get duplicate ribbons and awards if and when it is appropriate. Show officials in ‘the small time’ often volunteered, or got volunteered.

Heck, I once placed a schooling-show class full of 16 up-downers with lots of ‘ties’ for third, fourth, fifth and sixth. The ‘real’ winner and second place kid got the blue and red ribbons. The 16th ranked kid got 6th. Some of the kids figured it out, others not so much. But lots of smiles and thank-you’s anyway.

[SSacky]

If you’re old enough to compete, you’re old enough to graciously accept that mistakes happen.

There’s a reason its common to give all firsts to the leadline class. These riders are small and all the class does is encourage their efforts.

I was 13 when it happened to me and no tears were spared. I was just ecstatic about winning anything! Yes, its very hard to give someone something then have to take it away, but if you cannot handle that, you should not be competing.

I’m always stunned that so many young kids show in A circuit hunter divisions so early and from the very beginning. That’s not an easy atmosphere to get into. My first year I competed at ‘show clinics’ where after the pinning of each class the judge went over why she’d pinned how she did with us. I was riding a green horse and we got I think 2 or 3 ribbons in an entire summer. It was a hard enough lesson to learn in a very relaxed atmosphere, I can’t imagine learning it in a much more hectic atmosphere with mush more competitive people.

[abrant]

[QUOTE=Only By Night;7240177]
I find it really ironic that the poster who wanted to keep their first place ribbon when they didn’t win would say something like this.[/QUOTE]

Bahaha! Obvious I, like everyone else, have not changed one bit since I was 9 years old. LoL!!

Some of you guys are super adorbs.

[ElisLove]

THanks for the replies. I am a bit surprised at the wide variations of opinions.

[Say_Goodnight_Gracie]

[QUOTE=trubandloki;7240110]
How do you manage to keep track of everyone’s points during the day?[/QUOTE]

I don’t mean over a day or a weekend show, that WOULD be super tough. But over the course of like a full season for a division? Yeah, I know at least generally where I am in the standings (at least far as the results and points have been posted) and if I’m close to the top (which I’m not often!) or hanging in the back somewhere (and likely not paying attention anymore lol).

[RS]

This happened to me once.

I was 12, at my first big recognized horse trials, winning going into stadium jumping (or so I thought, given my dressage score and double clear XC)…after jumping double clear I was ecstatic waiting for the results, knowing I won. Went into the ring for the awards ceremony and victory gallop, only to very awkwardly sit there while I was the only one NOT given a ribbon.

Turns out, I’d been so excited about winning the dressage and running double clear on XC, I hadn’t bother to check my XC time penalties. Although I had been plenty fast according to my watch, they mixed me up with the girl in front of me that got eliminated and never came across the finish line…and gave me several whole minutes of penalties.

Because it was outside the window of protest time for the XC penalties, and because they’d already awarded the ribbons, the mistake was not corrected. Management politely told me that I did indeed have the winning ride, but would not be going home with a blue ribbon, I cried a few quiet tears and patted my pony, and life went on.

It was a good learning experience, no hard feelings, and I NEVER forget to check my score within the 30 minute inquiry period.