I don’t think it’s impossible to bring on along on your own (with help). At least that’s what I’m hoping. Started taking a lesson a week a few months ago on a gelding I bred (Budweiser son) and hoping to at least get to 3’ by late spring. If both he and I can accomplish that much, we’ll try for bigger jumps.
[QUOTE=Madeline;7886513]
I really can’t believe all the fuss over 3". Take out a ruler. Do you think there is a horse in the world who can tell the difference?[/QUOTE]
if you think 3" is the only difference, you are far removed from the rings.
[QUOTE=ChelseaR;7886470]The trouble with telling people to bring their own green horse along is not so much that they don’t want to or that they are afraid to work for it.
The real issue I think is that it is beyond the ability of most amateurs (or most riders in general) to train a horse to do something they have never done. Riders who have previously ridden 3’6" classes can and do often bring along their own green horses. Riders who have never really ridden or shown above 2’9"/3" are unlikely to be successful trying to move a green horse up to 3’6" for the first time.
Green horses need riders who give them confidence. The one horse owner who has never shown or ridden much above 3" is unlikely to be able to provide that confidence or level of polish needed for the A/O hunters without a lot of trainer rides (which defeats the purpose).
That same rider might be able to confidently train a horse up to 2’9"/3’ but the gap between 3’ and 3’6" in the hunter ring is a lot bigger than just 6" of height.
The width and the distances also have an impact as does the smaller tolerance for error and often higher level of polish expected.[/QUOTE]
This. I can do a decent job bringing a greenie along to my level of skill, but since I’ve never jumped 3’ let alone 3’6", I’m not going to cut it. I can’t afford to pay for all the training/showing needed.
FWIW: around here, the 2’6" hunters don’t fill. I am in a hunter wasteland and if I want to show against anyone, 2’3" is the plateau.
Well, it’s tough to make one up if you have never shown the 3’6" Hunters- with all that fill in there those things get pretty big off a 13-14’ stride. And the combinations are most unforgiving of a miss in. I don’t think an owner lacking that experience can get one made up on their own to AA rated course level without the services of a competent Pro rider. That does cost.
People keep saying any horse can get around? Last AA I went to cost me 600 just for stall, drug fee, association fees, zone fees, schooling fees, parking fees, mandatory nite watch, add scratch fee ( I did neither) and one division, that’s pricey to ride around in mediocrity just for personal goals. Add typical trainer charges and it’s nuts to waste that kind of money with absolutely no shot to pin at all.
Cant blame somebody for staying where they have at least a shot.
Probably true but absolutely ridiculous.
It’s not like 30 years ago in the US you had the OTTB horses, bold riders and lesser cost horse shows. The winning round was much different too…
Just watch this.
1982 Maclay -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj6hh5w4Afk
2014 Maclay -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPRqIyU1riE
In life things change regardless what we like 
I like the 1st horse better. Looks like a REAL hunter. Quite fancy as well. Do you know who it is? My kind of horse. :yes:
I think the rider in the second link is excellent and better than the first but her horse does nothing for me. He’s going so slow I thought he would refuse a couple of times or not quite make the height. Unfortunately, IMO, this “horse on valium” look is highly prized in today’s show ring.
Sorry, but the show hunter look is getting to be absurd. If you folks aren’t careful, the tired looking, fat horse that can jump (sorta) look will eventually morph into even further extremes (think AQHA Western Pleasure classes or even the Big Lick TWs). Those folks don’t see anything wrong either.
in those Maclay links, you are not comparing apples to apples… the 1982 ride was not the winning ride, the 2013 was…
So it sounds as if according to this thread the 3’6 division should just fade out and die as there’s no reason to push oneself to make it in the highest levels of this sport as an amateur … Truly, an objective person reading this could easily infer that.
It would be a complete shame for the 3’6 division to cease to exist and I personally believe that the above attitudes are why the numbers are dwindling. I’m not judging anyone who chooses to stick with a lower height but I do admire those who push themselves and want to excel at their maximum capability.
As a side note, I never said it was so simple to bring along your own horse. Especially one with “less scope” as one poster referenced than the buyer initially thought. My opinion is that it CAN be done with the help of a savvy and competent professional and numerous quality lessons, training, etc. Yes that takes money, but a whole lot less money than the proven 3’6 campaigner costs.
[QUOTE=Goldie locks;7886462]
The horses that do the 3’6" + up these days are few and far between and cost $100,000 and up.
It’s not like 30 years ago in the US you had the OTTB horses, bold riders and lesser cost horse shows. The winning round was much different too…
Just watch this.
1982 Maclay -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj6hh5w4Afk
2014 Maclay -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPRqIyU1riE
In life things change regardless what we like :)[/QUOTE]
Pretty sure that is not the 1982 winning ride, and for sure you are wrong about 2014. Lillie Keenan, whose round you posted, won last year (in 2013). Tori Colvin was the 2014 winner.
[QUOTE=APirateLooksAtForty;7887131]
So it sounds as if according to this thread the 3’6 division should just fade out and die as there’s no reason to push oneself to make it in the highest levels of this sport as an amateur … Truly, an objective person reading this could easily infer that. [/QUOTE]
Then you are reading a different thread than I am.
I do not think anyone here is saying or even thinking that 3’6" should go away. And no one, even scared me does not think that people should not strive for the highest level. The difference between my thought on that and yours is clearly I think people should strive for their highest level of this sport, not the highest level that someone else thinks is a must.
I would rather the timid older rider with a great horse go out and safely enjoy the 2’6" division for years to come than force them into 3’ or 3’6" where they are more worried/scared and not having a fun show experience.
I know it is hard for brave and talented people to understand but there are lots of us out here that are not brave and talented and are willing to accept our limitations in ability and pocket book.
Those upper levels are for the people who have more talent and/or money to enjoy. We (general we) will enjoy our level.
[QUOTE=APirateLooksAtForty;7887131]
So it sounds as if according to this thread the 3’6 division should just fade out and die as there’s no reason to push oneself to make it in the highest levels of this sport as an amateur … Truly, an objective person reading this could easily infer that.
It would be a complete shame for the 3’6 division to cease to exist and I personally believe that the above attitudes are why the numbers are dwindling. I’m not judging anyone who chooses to stick with a lower height but I do admire those who push themselves and want to excel at their maximum capability.
As a side note, I never said it was so simple to bring along your own horse. Especially one with “less scope” as one poster referenced than the buyer initially thought. My opinion is that it CAN be done with the help of a savvy and competent professional and numerous quality lessons, training, etc. Yes that takes money, but a whole lot less money than the proven 3’6 campaigner costs.[/QUOTE]
I would hate to see the 3’6" AO division die off, but I think you are wrong to criticize others as “not pushing themselves.” There are numerous other reasons why the typical ammy may decide to stay in the 3’3" section, including money, lack of time, and what about those who chose to move down because it is in the best interest of their horse to step down. I don’t understand your superior attitude. Maybe you should just ride at the same shows where Betty Oare and Jane Gaston compete, that way you will be sure to have some competition.
I’m not speaking to the average amateur; I’m speaking to those out there specifically who are NOT pushing themselves, as I alluded to in my first post. Believe me they are out there and I thought I made that clear in my initial post.
[QUOTE=APirateLooksAtForty;7887172]
I’m not speaking to the average amateur; I’m speaking to those out there specifically who are NOT pushing themselves, as I alluded to in my first post. Believe me they are out there and I thought I made that clear in my initial post.[/QUOTE]
Unless you live in their brain you have no way of knowing if they are or are not pushing themselves.
You’re right, but I can form am opinion based on what I’ve observed. Again I think not one person is trying to put themselves in the shoes of those of us out there, doing it, keeping this division going.
[QUOTE=REH;7886757]
No one is keeping them from showing–ammies can show a horse in the performance hunters if they like.[/QUOTE]
…great if we actually HAD performance hunters in Alberta…we don’t! If you want to show 3ft6 hunters here you have to be an A/O!
Who says people aren’t pushing themselves? I ride at 2’9" when I’m lucky. I bought a horse that I believe can do 3’6", but I’m doing 2’ on her right now as I’m struggling a bit with her. I’m not safe at a full course and do not want to ruin my good horse, so we are keeping it small. It’s disappointing to say the least. I sing a little song to her most days about my goal of doing the A/As. It’s what I work towards every.single.ride. But the reality is that my budget affords me one lesson a week and an occasional trainer ride. I can go to about one schooling type show a month. There are other constraints aside from just budget.
So, while I’m “pushing” myself, with what I am realistically able to dedicate to this hobby from a time and money standpoint means someone else might judge me as not doing so.
Unless I’ve completely lost all ability to comprehend (which could be possible), don’t these two comments completely contradict each other?
You’re not talking about the average ammie who is pushing themself, but not one of the average ammies you compete against is pushing themselves?
[QUOTE=eclipse;7887228]
…great if we actually HAD performance hunters in Alberta…we don’t! If you want to show 3ft6 hunters here you have to be an A/O![/QUOTE]
Yup. And as of this year we no longer have hunters above 3’0" in Saskatchewan. They offered a 3’3" division at one show this year - and received one entry. She opted to do a jumper class instead, I think.
But then again we only have Bronze-level hunter shows here (I think equal to a C show in the US?).
Amateurs do this for fun. I do this for fun. If competing 3’6 isn’t fun but doing a lower height is, then show in the lower height! If you enjoy jumping 3’6, then jump in the 3’6 section. Regardless of riding skill, it’s about where you are comfortable and how much you want to push yourself while still having a good time. I don’t pay multiple $1000s to not enjoy myself at horse shows.
If the 3’3 and 3’6 sections are combined there are both advantages and disadvantages for both the 3’3 and 3’6 horses. Although, maybe it would be a better option to combine the 3’6 Jr/AO and the 3’3 Jr/AO? I am not sure how that would be conducive for national points but just another idea to throw out there. Similar to the jumpers…The Low AO and High AO Jumpers aren’t combined if it doesn’t fill. The Low Jr and Low AOs are combined while the High Jrs and High AOs are combined.
Whoever said take the “owner” out of “amateur owner” as a possible solution hit the nail on the head IMO.
I’m sorry you’re disappointed, OP. I often wonder if people posting links to horses for sale for a forum critique work against their own interest. Someone may have seen your link and nipped in there ahead of you.
[QUOTE=RugBug;7887307]
Who says people aren’t pushing themselves? I ride at 2’9" when I’m lucky. I bought a horse that I believe can do 3’6", but I’m doing 2’ on her right now as I’m struggling a bit with her. I’m not safe at a full course and do not want to ruin my good horse, so we are keeping it small. It’s disappointing to say the least. I sing a little song to her most days about my goal of doing the A/As. It’s what I work towards every.single.ride. But the reality is that my budget affords me one lesson a week and an occasional trainer ride. I can go to about one schooling type show a month. There are other constraints aside from just budget.
So, while I’m “pushing” myself, with what I am realistically able to dedicate to this hobby from a time and money standpoint means someone else might judge me as not doing so.
Unless I’ve completely lost all ability to comprehend (which could be possible), don’t these two comments completely contradict each other?
You’re not talking about the average ammie who is pushing themself, but not one of the average ammies you compete against is pushing themselves?[/QUOTE]
I think they’re referring to the situation where competitors would rather collect blue ribbons at one level over and over again than to progress to a higher level. I hear this complaint among folks who go to Arab shows who see the same people showing at training level (and winning) year after year after year.
Exactly. Rampant in my area, unfortunately. Thank you for explaining better than I could.
[QUOTE=SportArab;7887431]
I think they’re referring to the situation where competitors would rather collect blue ribbons at one level over and over again than to progress to a higher level. I hear this complaint among folks who go to Arab shows who see the same people showing at training level (and winning) year after year after year.[/QUOTE]
but how do you know that blue ribbons are why they are staying at a level year after year? You are just making assumptions unless you are intimately involved in that person and their horse’s life.
There are some many reasons, other than collecting blue ribbons, to stay at a level.
I’ve been riding at 2’6" for YEARS…still always pushing to do more, still with goals and have just never been able to make it happen for one reason or another, some my fault…some out of my control, that has nothing to do with collecting blue ribbons.
Honestly, I find that minding my own business is the best option. If someone perpetually stays in crossrails, it’s no skin off my teeth. I don’t like that my divisions don’t fill, but it just means I have to travel to someplace where they do…or decide to solve the problem another way. Being judgemental about my fellow competitors is not one of those ways.
