Where are the working students?

[mvp]

@Liz_Steacie

I have a really nice opportunity for a working student here at my stable in Ontario. I have posted the position all over and I am not getting much in the way of responses. I am offering a schooled FEI horse, lessons, 25 hours of PAID work/week and room and board. Is that fair or do I expect too much? I am an FEI level trainer and certified high performance coach with good competitive results and oodles of experience to share.

Or is the whole “working student” experience a thing of the past?

Thanks for your comments!

I don’t know who the kids are who are taking the positions in FL and Europe. But it seems to me that the WS gig is now, properly, limited to kids who know they have the kind of family wealth and blessings that it takes to contemplate becoming a pro. For everyone else (and this was me included way back in the day), it was/is clear that the WS stint is for someone who is very serious about their hobby and can carve out the money and time to do that for a time.

Perhaps, for the OP, it’s that the middle-class pool of WSs is shrinking everywhere? And anyone wealthy/supported enough to do a WS is going to those jobs in Florida and Europe…because they can?

[trubandloki]

@lenapesadie

I read the 25 hrs paid as “paid for 25 hrs and then unknown X# of hours unpaid”. I presume that the unpaid hours are working off the lodging / lessons / etc.

I read that 25 hours paid work (chores type stuff), riding is time above the 25 hours and it not paid, but it is free lessons on nice horses with a good instructor.

[lenapesadie]

@trubandloki

read that 25 hours paid work (chores type stuff), riding is time above the 25 hours and it not paid, but it is free lessons on nice horses with a good instructor

Possibly! The OP isn’t extremely clear. It’s not been my experience that WS deals include salary and housing nor that part time workers are housed so that colors my interpretation.

[Mersidoats]

@Liz_Steacie

I have a really nice opportunity for a working student here at my stable in Ontario. I have posted the position all over and I am not getting much in the way of responses. I am offering a schooled FEI horse, lessons, 25 hours of PAID work/week and room and board. Is that fair or do I expect too much? I am an FEI level trainer and certified high performance coach with good competitive results and oodles of experience to share.

Or is the whole “working student” experience a thing of the past?

Thanks for your comments!

As someone who grew up in a middle class household that was economically devastated by the dot-com bubble, I read this post and thought “omg, what an amazing opportunity.”

OP, I think you are fighting seasonal timing, COVID, and location bias.

That being said, there doesn’t seem to be a pool of good working student candidates. My coach used to have someone every season, and the last few have been disappointing. She doesn’t slave drive them, they get a stipend, board for a horse, room and board for themselves and a pet, multiple lessons a week, daily extra riding, AND she pays their show costs if they show her horses (depending on horse availability). There have been some attitude and communication problems, mainly a misunderstanding that they are there to LEARN, and there are expectations for how they comport themselves with clients and the other employees.

[MsM]

Is the pay for 25 hours per week enough to maintain a car, buy incidentals, etc? You are fortunate to be in Canada in that health insurance is not an issue. I agree that the timing is tough, but if the perception is that the person would not have enough money to buy clothes, get a drink etc, or the time or location for a second job, it is a tough sell.

[trubandloki]

@MsM

Is the pay for 25 hours per week enough to maintain a car, buy incidentals, etc? You are fortunate to be in Canada in that health insurance is not an issue. I agree that the timing is tough, but if the perception is that the person would not have enough money to buy clothes, get a drink etc, or the time or location for a second job, it is a tough sell.

I guess the person would have to weigh what they would be paying for housing, board for their horse and lessons in this mix.

[MsM]

True. But there have been positions that seem reasonable on paper. You add up the value of the lessons and board (horse board not listed by OP) and it seems reasonable. The problem occurs when the person cant afford gas for the car or personal essentials. Sometimes the BNT depended upon a parent or SO helping support the employee so that they can “live their dream”.

It sounds like this position is at least structured to give the person some quality riding time on nice horses. But Canada in the winter… Probably most likely to find a Canadian youngster doing a “gap year”.

[Grey623]

@Mersidoats

As someone who grew up in a middle class household that was economically devastated by the dot-com bubble, I read this post and thought “omg, what an amazing opportunity.”

OP, I think you are fighting seasonal timing, COVID, and location bias.

Me too! I’m over 50, with no plans for a horse career, but I’d jump at this for a few months once warmer weather comes and if I could get into Canada easily. I’d love the chance to work and learn, and maybe move towards my Silver medal.

OP, perhaps if you framed it as straight up employment rather than working student, you might appeal to a wider range of applicants.

Grey

[Guyot]

Employment hell in the horse industry is real. Cannot find anyone for just morning shift on the weekend. Feed turnout and stalls for 15 horses. Had two teenagers over the summer who are quitting because winter is too hard.

Don’t know what we are going to do besides do it ourselves… oh and I pay more then the fast food places and Walmart etc and I pay time and a half on holidays.

[Liz_Steacie]

Just to clarify, the 25 hours are paid barn work, the riding and lessons are on top of that and not paid. A normal work week would be expected (40 hours) when the riding is factored in. The pay comes to roughly $750 every two weeks, so not, not a living wage but enough for gas, phone, personal needs, etc. Accommodations and meals (and I am a good cook!) are included in my house on property, so no driving required except to get into town for recreation & shopping.

We have other staff as well, and they would also do barn work, so it’s not like a WS would be slaving away and too exhausted to ride. There is one full time person and 1 part time person for 21 horses in addition to the role of the WS. The horses are nice, a fancy Lusitano stallion (PSG) and an older Grand Prix horse who was reasonably competitive in his day and still good enough for national level competition with scores into the high 60s. A minimum of 2 lessons/week on each horse, usually more as well as incidental/casual coaching when I am on a break and just watching. But people need time also to figure out the lessons, so at least one day a week of ride on your own experience. 2 days off /week.

And yes, there is a career path if one wanted to pursue it. I am not a youngster anymore and the could be opportunity to take over parts of the business when I am ready to step back and do less. Or just go to full time work here in any number of roles.

My former working students have done really well for themselves when they finished here (and most were with me for at least 3 years); they have their own training/teaching businesses and are fairly successful.

[lenapesadie]

Thank you for clarifying! That really does sound like a decent position. Presuming your ads include those clarifying details? Good luck in your search.

[eightpondfarm]

i have been wondering lately if the little girl who loves horses thing is gone now? I live rurally and there are maybe three other farms that even have a horse! What’s more, the men i encounter, when horses are mentioned (by me of course) seem to kinda …sneer. That they are money burners/not money earners…like cattle. I suppose living in a poor red part of a red state colors that thinking quite a bit. But i have never had a mother around here even hint at maybe me giving their daughter a ride, or lessons or any of the things i would have BEGGED to do when i was a horse-crazy little girl. Maybe there aren’t as many horse crazy little girls anymore?

[SillyHorse]

A horse-crazy little girl is not working student material.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

I agree, that sounds very fair and attractive! I am curious if that’s all in the ad? It might simply be that the wording wasn’t clear, if there were no takers. The only other factor might be where you are advertising. Facebook? Yard & Groom? You might just need a different site.

[Weezer]

Post the ad at an agricultural school that has an equine program, like Olds College or University of Guelph

[BigMama1]

Liz have you tried advertising overseas? As I said above, that’s the only luck I found trying to get working students who truly wanted to learn to ride and train. The only issue is the visa process, which is probably backlogged due to Covid. However you may qualify under agriculture for temporary foreign worker visas, which are easier to get.

Compared to what other groom / working student positions often entail, your job is a dream come true. Not to mention the value of it being with a reputable trainer and the position and horses actually being as described.

I’ve met so many former working students who were lured with promises of riding upper level horses and having lessons from an advanced trainer, only to discover too late the “trainer” has never developed a horse past First Level, the horses are all lame or sore, or there never seemed to be enough time in the day to fit a lesson in. I wish they all could have found an opportunity like yours instead.

I wonder if you advertised it as looking to train an assistant farm manager / trainer, rather than a working student position, that you might get applicants who are serious about a career? Especially knowing that there is a path to build their own training business there / take over parts of the business from you as you look to scale back. If you could somehow word the ad that way, so people see it as a career building opportunity and not just a short term working student position, maybe that would help.

[B-burg_Dressage]

That clarification makes it sound a lot more appealing and makes a lot more sense. It does sound like an overall nice opportunity.

Only two things that would make me less excited. Sounds like housing is shared with you? Could be a non-issue or could be that I can never get away from my boss to decompress.
And board on a horse. Also could be a non-issue but would certainly sweeten the pot.

I agree with others to make sure wording is super clear in the add and perhaps advertise it as something other than working student to make it sound more career-oriented.

Can’t help the Canada in winter part though.

[Maude]

In today’s world many people don’t want to work hard for anything. When things are handed to you why work. I’m from a different generation. I wish I’d had this opportunity when I was younger. I’d jump on it!

[anon67413619]

@Maude

In today’s world many people don’t want to work hard for anything. When things are handed to you why work. I’m from a different generation. I wish I’d had this opportunity when I was younger. I’d jump on it!

That’s not necessarily true. Part of the younger generations realized they don’t want to be exploited and look towards avenues that will give them better financial opportunities and not be burned out. And I don’t blame someone for not wanting to work in the horse industry. It’s hard on the body and mind (at times) and doesn’t pay enough in many jobs. How many people on this board would recommend to get a job that pays for your hobby?

As a former working student, this opportunity sounds great (better than the 60+ hour week, non paid, no breaks during the days working student position I had years ago.) Agree with the above posters that many riders are looking towards a warmer place to work now.

[Scribbler]

In Canada for the first time ever there are more people over age 65 than under age 14. The supply of young people is getting smaller. More adults are focusing more resources on fewer children, except for those parents with no resources. Anyhow there will just numerically not be the big supply of young folks to do all kinds of service and entry level jobs. That’s having an impact on many fast food outlets already.