Where are the working students?

[Texarkana]

@BigMama1

Happily things have changed in the 21st century and most working students don’t accept the abuse and indentured servitude they used to.

The OP has an excellent position on offer, with pay, accommodations, instruction and riding opportunities. I don’t think she needs to sweeten the pot necessarily, just perhaps to look farther afield.

I don’t think anything has changed except a percentage of former working students now calling BS on what the working student model has become.

It kills me that every two bit, nobody, wannabe “trainer” offers a working student position anymore. I find it even more hilarious when they are shocked and insulted no one wants to perform slave labor for the gift of being in their presence.

I don’t mean this towards the OP. The OP sounds like he/she is offering a position that is more fair than average. I think the market is just flooded with WS positions these days and you have increasingly less people wanting said positions.

Honestly, you may get more bites advertising it as a groom’s job with the same responsibilities and benefits.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

I agree. I think the issue is more the name of the position than the actual terms (which are great). I know it’s Canada in the winter, but Canada isn’t winter all year round, and some people don’t mind the cold. Especially if the barn is set up properly. I mean, winter is AWFUL to work outside, sure, but the worst barns I’ve seen in winter have ones that just make no preparation for keeping water moving/keeping horses systems healthy, and it sounds like the OP’s program isn’t like that.

Although there’s a lot that’s not great about online culture, one good thing perhaps is that I’ve seen more calling out of flat-out abusive programs, or challenges when people post the “why does no one want to work for free and perhaps one (mediocre) lesson a week in exchange, I have so much knowledge to give” FB ISO ads. Also it’s obvious something is amiss when the same programs (even with BNTs) post the same help wanted ads and never can keep help.

[anon67413619]

Also, some riders looking for working student positions find them from word of mouth or asking a trainer they previously ridden with in a clinic (for example). They may not have looked online at ads.

[Dee-Vee]

I’m in your area and I know that you are trying to reach a broader audience, but in general the dressage community has really shrunk over the last couple of years. Covid hasn’t helped. More barns have closed down, than opened. The EVH1 outbreak had a big impact in this area. In general, people are just scrambling to find decent board. Horses are expensive and a luxury, and people aren’t investing.

I think it is the sign of the times. The sport is under a lot of strain right now.

It’s not the way it used to be.

[BatCoach]

@anon67413619

@Maude

In today’s world many people don’t want to work hard for anything. When things are handed to you why work. I’m from a different generation. I wish I’d had this opportunity when I was younger. I’d jump on it!

That’s not necessarily true. Part of the younger generations realized they don’t want to be exploited and look towards avenues that will give them better financial opportunities and not be burned out. And I don’t blame someone for not wanting to work in the horse industry. It’s hard on the body and mind (at times) and doesn’t pay enough in many jobs. How many people on this board would recommend to get a job that pays for your hobby?

So much this. I’m an ‘elder millenial’ in my mid 30s and wow am I tired of hearing older generations griping about how young people (or maybe I no longer qualify as young? haha) want everything handed to them. With inflation and cost of living sky rocketing, we have had to work HARDER to just pay rent, pay for gas and pay for school. My FiL went to UC Berkeley in the 70s. His annual tuition was around $600. It is over $14,000 now. Think of how much a bale of alfalfa cost ‘back in the day’ and compare it to what it cost now.

I’m sure there have been threads of the middle class getting priced out of horses. Hell - its even happened to me, and not for lack of hard work. In my early 20s I was working full time, going to school part time, and being a ‘part-time’ WS at a small barn on the weekends.

This arrangement worked since I worked 4 10 hour days, consolidated my class load and took online coursework and the barn was very local to me. However, it was a small operation with 1 trainer and her 8 stall barn, so it did not always present riding opportunities. No money was ever exchanged, and I learned a lot about barn management, young stock, rehab and a little about dressage. However, looking back it was not a financially wise thing to do. I should have spent that time taking more courses so I could have graduated sooner, or taken an internship to purse a career path, rather than moving stall mats and fixing fences for the chance to take a lesson on an old broodmare or hand-walking a boarders horse.

The knowledge is valuable, but unless you are independently wealthy or planning on becoming a Pro, the WS path is a hard one. I think times have changed and people know that in order to support this passion, one needs to make a decent income to do so. being a barn-rat when you live at home and don’t have any expenses is very different than devoting your life to horses when you have a retirement account, savings, and real-world expenses to think of. Not everyone is in a position where they can afford to do it.

[sportyspicepony]

Very much agree with all of this. Honestly, being a working student is a privilege because it generally means you don’t have any other expenses outside of your day to day living expenses - no debt, medical bills, car payment, etc. that you would need a real salary to pay for. I often fantasize about dropping everything to go be a working student and dedicate my life to horses, but it’s literally a fantasy lol. It has nothing to do with me not wanting to work hard.

[eightpondfarm]

not really what i was talking about. I just have been wondering if there were still any coming up. I think that the phone has replace most nature-related things for those coming up during smart phones.

[Speed2727]

Yep they have no idea how hard you really work. Just want the title and no responsibility that goes with it. To tired to work after riding 3 horses? Give me a break. This person is lazy.

[anon68314200]

In addition to the all ready mentioned problems with the WS systems historically, I think people are overlooking the tremendous educational content available online. Plenty of people are dedicated to horses, but they are not ‘talented.’ They will not shine in the meat grinder system that WS has traditionally been. If someone has access to horses, there is tremendous information available for free all over YouTube. And honestly, if you have the grit to put in a 50-60 hour/week horse job, you probably have the grit to take the horses you can access, and educate yourself.

As for horse professionals who need cheap help, and have been relying upon WS to provide that, well the internet age may require you to step up your game. I am enrolled in an online program where I can see hundreds of videos of previous student moving up through the program. I can see very average people with very average animals making very solid progress. I don’t have to put myself into a position with very little compensation , control, not to mention dignity or workman’s comp, and get worked to death.

The WS system has a bad reputation that is well deserved, and the internet offers a bottomless cornucopia of education that is potentially much more current. And it is much easier to switch it up the system if you decide the program is not a fit for you.

For folks who really want the ‘circuit’ WEF, etc experience then there will always be WS type positions available. But if you want good classical horsemanship. If you love horses more than you love Dressage Under the Lights, and if your dedication far out weighs your talent, then staying home, with the horses you can access, and availing yourself of the tremendous offerings the interwebz brings, can be a far more successful option.

[HorseAlter]

This is so true. I’ve lost track of the number of people I’ve spoken with in the last 2-3 months who can’t find workers for anything, whether it be someone to clean stalls, groom horses, be a working student, a farm manager, or anything else. Even when the pay and opportunities are exceptional, many people are finding it extremely difficult to attract people who want to work.

I know someone who offers incredible opportunities to working students, even going to Florida and they too are finding it a challenge to fill the opening(s). Imagine being given the chance to take lessons on a GP schoolmaster and the comment comes back from the WS candidate: “this is too much work”.

OP, here are a couple of things I think could be going on:

1. As others have said, it may be a location issue. If multiple people I know can’t find WS who would love to go to Florida for the winter, what chance do people have up north to find someone, unless they get lucky?

2. A lot of people simply don’t want to work right now. In some areas, there’s enough of a payout that it’s not worth getting a job. That may not be the situation in Canada, but it is in other places.

3. A lot of young people don’t have the work ethic that previous generations had. Some of this is due to the instant gratification that people are used to from the internet, and social media in particular.

4. With all the bad situations regarding pervy trainers, fewer parents are probably willing to let their kids take a WS gig regardless of who the person is.

@Guyot

Employment hell in the horse industry is real. Cannot find anyone for just morning shift on the weekend. Feed turnout and stalls for 15 horses. Had two teenagers over the summer who are quitting because winter is too hard.

Don’t know what we are going to do besides do it ourselves… oh and I pay more then the fast food places and Walmart etc and I pay time and a half on holidays.

[MapleBreeze]

I was a working student. It sucked and I would never take that abuse again. I was better off finding an older trainer that needed their horses worked and told me how to ride them.

I tell committed kids they are better off having a real job buying a horse and taking a lot of lessons.

I have a friend that IS a working student and moved to Germany for the gig. She has financial backing from her family and has Olympic goals. She’s running 4 stars…

I have 2 young horses I would offer free ride time/lessons on because they need puttered with and like 2 hours of time per week and can’t find someone consistent.

It is almost 2022 and you have to be paranoid about safesport too.

I’m sorry you can’t find someone but I think it’s a thing of the past. Life is too expensive.

[anon67413619]

@HorseAlter

. Imagine being given the chance to take lessons on a GP schoolmaster and the comment comes back from the WS candidate: “this is too much work”.

Depending on the situation, it really is too much work. Also, it’s better that the working student finds out sooner than later that the job is not for them. It is, however, unfortunate for the trainer as they have to look for someone else. Some young people don’t realize what they are getting themselves into until they actually do it. And it’s ok….maybe they will excel in a totally unrelated field.

[BigMama1]

@HorseAlter

A lot of young people don’t have the work ethic that previous generations had. Some of this is due to the instant gratification that people are used to from the internet, and social media in particular.

This gets repeated often but I honestly don’t think there’s truth to it. As the parent / step-parent of kids ranging in age from 14-30, this isn’t what I see from them and their peers at all.

It’s not lack of work ethic; it’s an unwillingness to be exploited by an employer and to sacrifice work / life balance, health, and happiness.

“Being around my brilliance and learning from me is your payment” simply doesn’t fly anymore, the way it used to once upon a time. They expect to be adequately compensated for their work and don’t think they should work 80 hour weeks for free.

[skipollo]

@BigMama1

his gets repeated often but I honestly don’t think there’s truth to it. As the parent / step-parent of kids ranging in age from 14-30, this isn’t what I see from them and their peers at all.

It’s not lack of work ethic; it’s an unwillingness to be exploited by an employer and to sacrifice work / life balance, health, and happiness.

“Being around my brilliance and learning from me is your payment” simply doesn’t fly anymore, the way it used to once upon a time. They expect to be adequately compensated for their work and don’t think they should work 80 hour weeks for free.

This x 10000. All of the lessons and fancy UL horses in the world will not put gas in your car or pay your other bills. You’re better off getting a regular type of job that has less hours and pays more.

But what do I know, I’m a spoiled lazy entitled millennial who has become accustomed to having food to eat

[Mersidoats]

Let’s be careful not to lump all working student programs together. The one I participated in paid me enough to make my car payment, buy gas, buy food and enjoy a night out. We worked 5.5 days a week, and alternated evening care. And I know several trainers who fairly compensate their employees, working students included.

I guess the next question is how do we reconcile horse industry work; animal care that requires odd and long hours with work-life balance expectations?

[Badger]

It sounds like a great opportunity and perhaps your market isn’t the young kid on a gap year, but someone older who wants a dressage immersion experience that comes with housing and a stipend. When I was laid off in 2009 in my 40s, I loaded up my horses and headed off to be a working student for an eventer who was a top clinician and had been on the team years before. Worked my butt off along with a few fairly worthless kids (but having kept my horses at home for years it was NBD, par for the course), slept on the floor of a gross mobile home, took 2 lessons a day most days of the week, and improved my riding and my horsemanship and LEARNED. I was already Eventing at the old one- star level but it was worth all the long days and exhaustion. I didn’t get a penny and I paid 1/2 price boarding for taking the extra horse. Worth it. Your position with pay, schoolmasters, a real house and food is like a dream-come-true for an AA with FEI aspirations if they also get to bring their horse as part of the learning experience. Market it to them.

An adult who can pick up and leave (I had a supportive husband), who perhaps is not working during covid, could immerse themselves for 3-6 months and make game-changing improvements in their riding. Assuming your barn is heated and your version of doing-horses-in-Canadian-winter is civilized, this is the perfect immersion experience for a 3rd or 4th level rider who wants to transform their riding and make it to FEI.

[sportyspicepony]

@HorseAlter

• A lot of people simply don’t want to work right now. In some areas, there’s enough of a payout that it’s not worth getting a job. That may not be the situation in Canada, but it is in other places.
• A lot of young people don’t have the work ethic that previous generations had. Some of this is due to the instant gratification that people are used to from the internet, and social media in particular.

I’m sorry but I’m so freaking sick of hearing this when it’s simply the opposite of true lol I don’t know a single person who doesn’t want to work, who gets “instant gratification” from the internet and that prevents them from getting a job??? Many people get PAID using social media, maybe that’s what you’re referring to?

EVERYONE needs money right now, and the horse industry is simply not the place to get it. Even whats considered “fair” compensation in a barn job is just simply less than other types of jobs, and honestly taking care of other peoples animals is exhausting compared to just a regular job. The labor standards are very low in the horse world and have not caught up to other industries. In my opinion

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

I think there’s also a certain level of being shellshocked from previous bad WS positions reducing the labor pool. Even if a position sounds great on paper, lots of people who might be a great match for the OP might have had an experience with one of “those” trainers, and they’re leery of trying another one.

I totally agree with what @BatCoach says. I haven’t worked in the industry in any professional capacity other than as a writer. But almost every WS or long-time barn employee I met was so focused, dedicated, and could be trusted to be on time and give 1,000% percent every day. If I were an employer I’d hire them in a second. Yet lots of employers don’t appreciate this when they see such work on the resume.

Something I have encountered personally is employers increasingly want specialized experience for jobs. I can write, but even I’ve gotten pushback in interviews that I’ve written about horses, which obviously means I cannot write about anything else.

I have a non-horse friend who rejected someone purely because she had horse experience on her resume. Yes, I tried to convince him of the error of his ways. But regardless, I think as fewer people ride, and become more disconnected from horses, the less respect there is for horse experience outside the industry, and young people feel they’re better off focusing on other professional areas of their lives. The few people I know who are still doing the WS route part-time while in college are doing stuff like getting into veterinary medicine/pharmaceutical research.

[Texarkana]

@HorseAlter

3. A lot of young people don’t have the work ethic that previous generations had. Some of this is due to the instant gratification that people are used to from the internet, and social media in particular.

Work ethic has nothing to do with social media and instant gratification from my viewpoint.

I think younger generations have started calling BS on working hard for the sake of working hard.

They have watched boomers and gen X be exploited by employers and gain nothing in return.

They have seen the fallout from a total lack of work/life balance.

So when a barn job says, “I need you to work 12+ hour days, 7 days a week, for little to no pay, no health insurance, no retirement, no PTO, a high risk of bodily harm… but you’ll get the benefit of learning by osmosis,” much of the younger generation says, “you’re a fool.”

The horse industry is something you learn immersively. You do need boots on the ground. But barns also can’t exploit their workers and expect to keep them.

Again, not directing any of this towards the OP, who has a position written to not exploit the working student.

[lenapesadie]

@eightpondfarm

not really what i was talking about. I just have been wondering if there were still any coming up. I think that the phone has replace most nature-related things for those coming up during smart phones.

I imagine it varies by community, but in my area the kid friendly stables can’t keep up with the demand for lessons, boarding etc for kids and their horses. There’s plenty of interest from the kids.

There’s probably fewer young adults suffering under the delusion that horses are good career choice than there used to be.