Where does the prize money come from in a Grand Prix Jumper class?

[Fox_Wood_Farm]

Please forgive the dumb question from a former foxhunter and eventer. DH went with me to watch the $50k Grand Prix class at the first weekend of the show at the new Tryon Equestrian Center. On the drive home, he asked me where that $50k purse comes from? We figured out really quickly that entry fees didn’t come close to that number. No admission fees for spectators. No parking fees for spectators. Yes, there are sponsors with their names on various jumps. (Rolex, Horseware, etc…) And I know from an exhibitor’s view, showing costs a fortune, but that much?

The partners didn’t sink millions into that place just to lose money. So where DOES the prize money come from?

Please be kind! Inquiring minds want to know…

[PNWjumper]

Read the name of any Grand Prix and you’ll have your answer, e.g. International Gems $10K Grand Prix, Purica $55K Grand Prix, etc. Also, the entry fees are much higher for the big grand prixes, typically in the $350-$800 range for that one class. So the entry fees can bring in a much greater amount of money than an average class.

[ybiaw]

It’s sponsors. However I can see where the confusion comes from for the Tyron prixs. Their prize list isn’t naming a sponsor. I’m guessing it’s TEP or Salamander that sponsored it though.

[Fox_Wood_Farm]

[QUOTE=ybiaw;7669866]
It’s sponsors. However I can see where the confusion comes from for the Tyron prixs. Their prize list isn’t naming a sponsor. I’m guessing it’s TEP or Salamander that sponsored it though.[/QUOTE]

Yes - I picked up the absence of a sponsor listed on the prize list.

And PNWJ - I looked up the entry fees while we were driving home. $550 (yikes!) and minimum of 20 entries required. There were 22 entries in the Prix we watched.

So, that’s $22,100 in entry fees and no sponsor for the class that paid out $50k. I guess that is the “cost of doing business” when you are starting up a new, big-time show facility. I assume the longer term business plan requires sponsorships for these big classes. Kinda what I thought, but DH was skeptical!

BTW - it is a fabulous facility. I could not believe how big, nice, fancy, etc… it is already. And big plans for more. Sure hope all y’all H/J people support it! Thanks for the info!

[findeight]

There’s also nomination fees before you even get to the entry fees and usually a requirement to compete in a Welcome class of some sort as a qualifier, which pays less and has a separate entry fee.

Theres a ton of lower level jumpers paying that nomination fee and entry fees in classes that don’t give much of a payback, some nothing at all.

[Fox_Wood_Farm]

[QUOTE=findeight;7669967]
There’s also nomination fees before you even get to the entry fees and usually a requirement to compete in a Welcome class of some sort as a qualifier, which pays less and has a separate entry fee.

Theres a ton of lower level jumpers paying that nomination fee and entry fees in classes that don’t give much of a payback, some nothing at all.[/QUOTE]

Thanks F8 - I saw that “nomination fee” ($200) and wasn’t sure what that meant. I looked for - but never found - qualification reqs. I’m sure I just didn’t look in the right place!

[findeight]

The nomination fee “entitles” you to pay the entry fees for each class you enter.

Used to only pay a nomination in the upper level classes that paid back well but it has been creeping down ever lower to classes that don’t pay well or at all. They also collect entry fees for those red/blue schooling classes that pay nothing. You get 100 in there for those, that’s a heck of a lot more in entry fees then the cost of the ribbons.

[Soaponarope]

Don’t forget stall fees and non-showing horse fees.

[Soaponarope]

And grounds fees if no stall.

[PNWjumper]

[QUOTE=Fox Wood Farm;7669980]
Thanks F8 - I saw that “nomination fee” ($200) and wasn’t sure what that meant. I looked for - but never found - qualification reqs. I’m sure I just didn’t look in the right place![/QUOTE]

Around here you pay the nominating fee simply for the honor of riding in a particular ring. For example, the nominating fee at Thunderbird Show Park for riding in the Grand Prix field is $175 (regardless of what classes you’re in and whether you ride in one class all week or 2+ a day), the nominating fee for the middle jumper ring is $75 or $100, and the fee for the little jumper ring is $50. It used to be that the nominating fee served the purpose of allowing people to add or scratch without an add/scratch fee, but most of the shows up here still charge add/scratch fees (though my example, Thunderbird, still does add/scratches up to the start of the class free of charge).

[Gorgonzola]

[QUOTE=Fox Wood Farm;7669941]
Yes - I picked up the absence of a sponsor listed on the prize list.

And PNWJ - I looked up the entry fees while we were driving home. $550 (yikes!) and minimum of 20 entries required. There were 22 entries in the Prix we watched.

So, that’s $22,100 in entry fees and no sponsor for the class that paid out $50k. I guess that is the “cost of doing business” when you are starting up a new, big-time show facility. I assume the longer term business plan requires sponsorships for these big classes. Kinda what I thought, but DH was skeptical!

BTW - it is a fabulous facility. I could not believe how big, nice, fancy, etc… it is already. And big plans for more. Sure hope all y’all H/J people support it! Thanks for the info![/QUOTE]

Looks like a typo, but entry fees would’ve only been 12,100

[findeight]

Don’t forget another 4k in nomination fees. Close to 17k.

[Fox_Wood_Farm]

![](orgonzola wrote:

Looks like a typo, but entry fees would’ve only been 12,100 [IMG]http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif.pagespeed.ce.ghlfFXOmmD.gif)

LOL - yes, gorg, that was a typo. I can multiply, just can’t type worth a damn!

[QUOTE=findeight;7670729]
Don’t forget another 4k in nomination fees. Close to 17k.[/QUOTE]

And F8 - That’s still 33k without an obvious sponsor. And they had another 50k prix this past Sunday and the next one is $75k.

I realize that entry fees from lower level classes, stall fees, etc… would contribute to the prizes, but I kind of wrote those fees off as paying for the facility costs, staff, etc…

Of course the whole conversation was started by my DH, who is NOT horsey, but is content with me feeding hundred dollar bills to my own horses. LOL. In reality, I think he was surprised that all those people came to watch and it’s totally free entertainment. No tickets, no parking fees, etc… It’s not like the crowds who pack the stadiums during the college football season.

[ybiaw]

It was likely Salamander Resorts or Tryon Equestrian Partners for the one you watched. Its just not listed on the prize list. Costs from stall fees, entries, spectators don’t go toward prize money for a big class. Nominating fees and entry fees for this SPECIFIC class - yes. Stall fees, no.

FWIW Horseware Ireland is sponsoring this week’s $75k prix at TIEC.

[ccr052700]

Thanks for asking this

I was looking at the same prize list. I had the same question as well as wondering where the $ came from for the Hunter paybacks? Just doesn’t seem like it all adds up…at least it doesn’t add up to a positive profit margin.

The pictures of the Tryon facility look gorgeous -but again, I hesitate and think…all of that expense must be recouped somehow…and given the size and scale of the place, the expense must be significant. As I understand it, it will not be leased out to organizations, etc, for use…that’s a lot of expense to recoup incrementally through show fees. Outside the lack of available lodging, that sort of facility would be ideal for any of larger national events for any discipline bringing in volumes of both events and participants. However, I get the feeling that it’s built for a select clientele with a certain checkbook dimension. (of which mine is not! )

On another note - isn’t Salamander owned by the Johnson family…as in owners of BET and Salamander Farm and parents of former junior standout Paige Johnson?

[ybiaw]

[QUOTE=ccr052700;7676918]
On another note - isn’t Salamander owned by the Johnson family…as in owners of BET and Salamander Farm and parents of former junior standout Paige Johnson?[/QUOTE]

Yup.

[Melissa.Van_Doren]

Horseware sponsored the $75k Grand Prix yesterday.

[hype]

Another piece of the equation is that in order to be rated nationally they need to offer a certain amount of prize money among other qualifying criteria. Shows are rated for hunters and jumpers and this is found in the prize lists.

In theory if a show offers good jumper money and hunter money the trainers will come for a piece of the pot and bring their clients, many of whom are not showing in any money classes and in effect subsidizing the classes which are paying out prize money.

[Linny]

The hundreds of sub-3’ competitors, from W-T through Rusty Stirrup and Modified Somethings are all pitching into the horse show’s coffers. All those people and their stall fees and grounds fees and ring fees and office fees are footing the bill not only for their own trainers but putting up the money made available for the top hunter and jumper classes.

[ybiaw]

See, I disagree on this. It is my understanding that stall fees, grounds fees, office fees, etc. go toward running the show, not toward prize money for bigger classes (namely, grand prixs which is the subject of this thread - not sure about for lower hunter/jumper classes that offer prize money, although from what I recall that comes from the entry fees for that particular class, but they also usually have a sponsor).

Prize money for grand prixs comes from the class sponsors. Those people with their names on the jumps and their name in the name of the class? That’s where the money comes from. Not little Sally Shortstirrup’s stall fee - that goes to Mr. Joe Showmanager to pay the staff and pay the facility costs.