Where to find a Non QH Appaloosa?

[Meggs]

Sport Horse type

Appaloosas are what we have. Even my non-characteristic Appaloosas have way more App blood than what the ApHC is currently registering w/ mostly QH.

Two of my App mares are out of TB mares, but the others are out of a old style App mare…these are the solid ones…go figure.

All are super easy, the 3yo gelding is cruising around small courses…and he doesn’t jump at home! My 4yo filly was RC at her first show this season(flat hunter divison)…straight off the trailer, with about 5-6 rides all year.

JG Appaloosas in Biglerville, turned me onto Appaloosa Sport Horses. The best in the business IMO.

My kids:
www.daveyfarm.com

[NoDQhere]

Thanks everyone for all the suggestions. I actually grew up with Appaloosas before and into the time that the AQHA pretty much ruined the breed. My mother was a successful breeder and owned the stallion Stardance F-1399 for most of his life. http://homepage.mac.com/gretchenlinton/Articles/stardance.html

My family raised performance Appaloosas, not halter horses and this is what I’d like to find. I know they are out there, but I’ve been involved in the WBs for many years now and have lost touch with the Appy folks. I’d like to find a WB quality weanling filly that will get decent size and that has good (and proven) bloodlines.

We are trying to get into the Knabstruppers as well but lost our first foal by Colorado :no:. We will be breeding to him again in the Spring but in the mean time want to look for the “right” Appy filly.

[mitma]

Well, you DO know about the Foundation apps! LOL!

[QUOTE=NoDQhere;5769336]
Thanks everyone for all the suggestions. I actually grew up with Appaloosas before and into the time that the AQHA pretty much ruined the breed. My mother was a successful breeder and owned the stallion Stardance F-1399 for most of his life. http://homepage.mac.com/gretchenlinton/Articles/stardance.html

My family raised performance Appaloosas, not halter horses and this is what I’d like to find. I know they are out there, but I’ve been involved in the WBs for many years now and have lost touch with the Appy folks. I’d like to find a WB quality weanling filly that will get decent size and that has good (and proven) bloodlines.

We are trying to get into the Knabstruppers as well but lost our first foal by Colorado :no:. We will be breeding to him again in the Spring but in the mean time want to look for the “right” Appy filly.[/QUOTE]

So sorry about your loss of your first Colorado baby… :sadsmile:

I had leased a TB mare to use to breed Melyni’s stallion, Halifax Middelsom, but she did not get in foal this year… So, I am now looking for another TB or warmblood mare to use for his breeding next spring…:winkgrin:

But, it warms my heart to hear about your upbringing and that you are now looking for an appaloosa filly like the horses you experienced growing up…

This has been my big focus for the last few years as well… and, it may be too early to tell, but I think I have had my best appaloosa filly born this year; she is the product of crossing one of my Wap mares, who is a daughter of Wap’s Reflection, with a foundation stallion who is of the “Ghostwind” and Solar Flair Eclat line… She is a black based FEWSPOT filly that should easily reach 16.2 HH…:yes:

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/eira+gwen

I don’t mean to tease you, but she is NOT for sale… I hope to take her to DAD this fall, as long as she is doing well and demonstrates she can handle the chaos of that environment…

I do think the other comments from posters are very relevant… I have NO wish to malign the AQHA, but the current breed of Quarter Horses is VERY different from what I was exposed to growing up in the 1970s… and, unfortunately, the other “stock” breed organizations such as the ApHC have followed this trend…:no:

I have concentrated on the known and established lines of sport bred Appaloosas, the Waps of JG Appaloosas, and the offspring of Chocklate Confetti of Confetti Farms… But, also, I have been looking intensely at foundation bred appaloosas that appear to be of a more baroque style with reasonable athletism and movement, etc… And, you should definitely look at Karri Hennings breeding program in AL…:yes: www.altamontsporthorses.com Though I think she had all colts born this year…

I have a large “herd”, including many Wap bred horses, as well as some from the Chocklate Confetti line… I managed to acquire a 6 yo stallion son of CC, out of a foundation appaloosa mare, earlier this year that had been sitting out in a field with some geldings for his whole life…:lol: He is now being started under saddle and since he appears to have some reasonable movement for dressage we hope to have him out showing next year… and, IF, he scores well and seems to have aptitude, I will consider allowing him to have a breeding career… I am under the impression that, currently, there are no breeding sons of Chocklate Confetti out there now??? If anyone knows of any, I would love to be informed…:yes:

I also have a 3 yo stallion, a chestnut snowcap, who is Wap bred (but 25% TB by blood)… Luke doesn’t have that awesome, extravagant movement that is so desired in the dressage arena today, but he is a solid, well built horse with decent movement… He is also starting under saddle and I hope he may have more of a productive career as an eventer, or possibly as a hunter/jumper… time will tell!

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/waps+limited+edition

And, finally, I have a 2 yo stallion, who is a son of AF Pisko Hunka… I was so excited to find this boy for sale as a fugly yearling, since his sire had done so well in the dressage arena… but, I am not sure where this boy’s career is headed yet… He is still intact only because of his pedigree and he will have to distinguish himself in order to stay intact…:lol:

Good Luck with your search and please keep us posted on what you find…

Martha

[Sonesta]

mitma, sounds like you have a nice program going!

[NoDQhere]

mitma, you sure seem to be on the right track! Please keep me up to date on your program!

[OveroHunter]

Mitma, I love you Appaloosa stallion, and I got a real kick out of his height! It’s amazing how many horses are 16.1 on a hill, with shoes done 8 weeks ago, and only using a certain stick!

ETA: Sorry I didn’t read your entire post. I was actually looking at that link you posted with the Appaloosa/TB cross stallion.

[Appsolute]

@mitma;5769611

I am under the impression that, currently, there are no breeding sons of Chocklate Confetti out there now??? If anyone knows of any, I would love to be informed…:yes:

Is Butterwap Confetti (Wap x Chocklate Confetti lines) not breeding any more?

Butterwap Confetti

Who is your Chocklate son?

Love that you are breeding the kind of Appies that we love!

[bdj]

[QUOTE=Daydream Believer;5768892]
I had a lovely three year old dun snowflake gelding but we lost him this summer to an aneurysm. :-([/QUOTE]

Oh no, DDB - was that Twister? I’ve “watched” him grow up on your site and always thought that he was a really nice looking colt!

[Equinoxfox]

Ok I have to ask. Has the OP said what she wants to do with so said Appaloosa. What discpline are you going to concentrate on. That should be the area you focus on when looking at breeders.
seems like this should be first and foremost. I have a lovely Appy and he is a SHOW HUNTER all the way .
but of course he is from the well known JG Waps line.
Go FIgure. Gotta Love A WAP …:yes:

[FLeckenAwesome]

I was going to mention Confetti Farms, Rugby Creek (still has Wapuzzan!), and Altamont Sport Horses too!

I just bought the CUTEST Irish Sport Horse/Appy baby from them… I hope he wants to event

They are out there… you’ve just got to sift through. Kinsch show horses also has some very TB-y looking Appies out there.

Also, the ones the others mentioned are all lovely too. I think I’ve bookmarked about 500 appy sites while I was on my search… Not all “non-QH” but… the ones I bookmarked were closer to the sporty types

[Beentheredonethat]

Mitma–I’d love to see some video of your boys to see what kind of movement you’re getting. You should be able to get some on a digital camera and put it on Youtube. Please. I love the TB/Appy cross. That’s what my boy was, and I think they make phenominal sporthorses.

[sportnhorse]

This is a dilemma which many true Appaloosa lovers face, but one which isn’t as insurmountable as one might initially presume! Depending on what your criteria are, if you search really hard you will find a handful of breeders who believe the Purebred Appaloosa has a lot to offer. You won’t find the quantity you will with Warmbloods or Thoroughbreds though - these are rare commodities indeed

Speaking for ourselves, we are a small stud concentrating on purebred Appaloosas which have the size and ability to perform in the Olympian equestrian disciplines. There aren’t that many purebred Appaloosas with the size, conformation and movement to be able to do this, hence our operation is kept small and extremely select. We have combined the very best Appaloosa bloodlines from the USA (www.jgappaloosas.com) with ours and are very happy with the result. You can see some of our horses at http://www.facebook.com/pages/Appaloosa-Sport-Horse/123691814380086 and click on our website link from there. I think you’ll agree they bear no resemblance to spotted Quarter Horses whatsoever:yes:

We don’t dissount every single foundation horse in the same way we do halter horses as being unsuitable for the Olympic sports, it’s just that the majority of foundation horses are not big enough nor do they have the conformation necessary to perform at high level.

Appaloosas aren’t going to have the exact same movement as a grand prix Warmblood nor the same conformation because, quite simply, they generally aren’t as heavily built and do not originate from the same ‘type’ that WB’s do, but there are those that can move beautifully. Digressing slightly from the QH angle, I feel if you want a Warmblood buy a Warmblood, if you want an Appaloosa Sport Horse, the same applies. Not every WB is going to have decent movement regardless of its pedigree anyway.

In my opinion, the best outcross for a foundation-type Appaloosa is the Thoroughbred. It adds refinement to what can often be a small horse with a lot of resemblance to a native pony and the exaggerated movement usually consists of tail over back and high knee action - neither of which are desirable in a dressage horse.
That way you also have more of an idea of what you will produce than if you cross breed to for instance a WB. My personal feeling is the majority of WB x Appaloosas I’ve seen is they are ‘neither here nor there’ and often seem to inherit the ‘worst’ traits of both breeds. Obviously there are exceptions but IME they’re very few and far between. The Thoroughbred enhances the Appaloosa, it doesn’t detract from it or alter it into simply another ‘spotted’ horse. I’m referring to the very best quality of each breed here, not just any old horse. Since the first colonials to see the original Appaloosa thought they were comparable to fine English horses (Thoroughbreds with a lot of Arab influence) you can imagine how far the modern ‘Appaloosa’ has strayed from that.

It is lamentable that the most prominent Appaloosas in the USA seem to be QH’s with spots (usually without spots actually!) and they’ve kind of given the modern Appaloosa a bad reputation as being nothing but halter horses which doesn’t even need to be sound to win in in hand classes. There are a handful of breeders who try to stay true to the Appaloosa type and breed athletic horses with intelligent dispositions which can compete against the Warmbloods and Thoroughbreds. Not many of them about though, as those two breeds are the epitome of a sport horse.
The one thing which separates true Appaloosas from other spotted breeds is temperament. Apart from the obvious, this is what attracts most people to the breed. Not dissing the original QH though, which was a beautiful, useful and very nicely put together horse.

[HorseBreederDirect]

[QUOTE=Appsolute;5770214]
Is Butterwap Confetti (Wap x Chocklate Confetti lines) not breeding any more?

Butterwap Confetti

Who is your Chocklate son?

Love that you are breeding the kind of Appies that we love![/QUOTE]

Butterwap Confetti is still standing at stud at Confetti Farms in Bakersfield, CA. Crossing beautifully with warmblood mares.

[ToTheNines]

Excellent post sportnhorse. I love the breed, and I can understand the desire to breed magnificent spotted horses. But it is not fair to the horses to breed them without a market, and people want to buy for specific disciplines.

Sorry, but a loud high stepping appy is not going to win hunter classes. I cannot speak as well to the other disciplines, maybe the loud ones will do better in dressage or eventing. Breeders, if you are hoping to sell hunters, I agree with sportnhorse, that the TB blood gives them the look and movement they need.

I have three hunter type appies, all registered ApHC, that have the look and movement to perform as hunters AND the appy personality we all love. However, they all have quite a bit of TB.

My older one has a very Andelusian head (from his App heritage), which I adore the look of. Not a big head, but gives him a very wise look that judges seem to love (at least at open h/j shows where he does not have to suffer the stupidity of QH judges). He is an excellent mover, and wins over fancy warmbloods at open shows. He is definitely Appy, and no one would mistake him for either a TB or a QH, but he was bred for hunters.

I also think the ApHC is not doing the breed any great service, but I do love the TB blood in the Apps, and they do well in the ApHC hunter classes.

Edited to remove videos.

[mitma]

Butterwap Confetti is breeding…

[QUOTE=Appsolute;5770214]
Is Butterwap Confetti (Wap x Chocklate Confetti lines) not breeding any more?

Butterwap Confetti

Who is your Chocklate son?

Love that you are breeding the kind of Appies that we love![/QUOTE]

Question 1: I believe he still is, though I have not spoken to Mel in a while… but, Butterwap Confetti is a grandson of Chocklate Confett (sired by Wap Spotted out of an AWESOME CC daughter)… so you can tell by my comment that I really love the CC daughter, LOL!

Question 2: Well, here is his allbreedpedigree, but I am in the process of changing his name, something I would NOT normally do, but I just need something else, and since he’s never bred a mare, nor shown, it can be done “legally” with the ApHC…

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/chief+cherokee+chock

Thanks!!!

[mitma]

Thanks!!!

[QUOTE=Beentheredonethat;5771526]
Mitma–I’d love to see some video of your boys to see what kind of movement you’re getting. You should be able to get some on a digital camera and put it on Youtube. Please. I love the TB/Appy cross. That’s what my boy was, and I think they make phenominal sporthorses.[/QUOTE]

I am SOOO very behind with photography and the likes… I haven’t even posted my 2011 foals to my facebook page yet… :lol:

I will work on it, but I will also be fair, this issue of appaloosas in “sport” is a tough nut to crack! Trully! The modern warmbloods with their incredibly lofty and exagerated movement has the set the bar pretty high for our beloved spotted horses! :yes:

I have a lovely appy/TB mare of the JG line that was VADA (statewide) reserve champion at training level last year (but, ALL horses should be able to do training level well!), but this year at first level, she is struggling a bit… leg yields are a bit of a challenge for her… her scores have ranged from 58 (:() to 72 (:winkgrin:) at first 1 and 2… and she hasn’t done a first 3 test yet…:lol:

She would probably do better as a hunter (yes Maurice, aka Equinoxfox, I have admitted this on the record! :lol:) but there are reasons that she should probably not jump…

My Chocklate Confetti boy may be one to go the distance in dressage and as soon as he is under saddle reliably, I will get and post some video… :yes:

But, fingers crossed, my most exciting prospect is the fact that I do have a great mare, Waps Blizzard, who is in foal to the (now deceased) TB stallion, Stravinsky, aka Trachit (FEI dressage to Intermediare in the EU and sire of many approved warmblood sons…) And, she is a snowcap, so the baby should have characteristics, at least! :yes:

Will keep you posted!

Thanks!

Martha

[Cataluna]

^ Fingers crossed this results in a fantastic baby, imagine what he/she could do for the Appaloosa breed! If a colt (dare I say, stallion prospect?) I may possibly be first in line to book a mare to him. :lol:

Best of luck, again!

[Beentheredonethat]

ToTheNines–Sorry–that looks like a QH Appy to me, and not what I think most people in here are looking for. We’re looking for horses for the Olympic disciplines. Hunters may be a big money industry, but anything that does well in that is not what I would call a sporthorse. My 1/2 TB loud Appy has MUCH more fluid, balanced movement than that, and had the ability to collect instead of fall on the forehand. (And the one open hunter show I did he place well in a huge flat class with his “loud high stepping” self.) What I, and I think most others, are looking at is more athletic horses who can sit and collect, whether it be to do the upper level dressage, jumpers, or stay sound on a cross country course. My Appy had a wonderful ability to collect AND be quick (which can be hard w/straight warmbloods) and had fabulous half passes, tempi changes (through the ones) and pirouettes.

I don’t think the Appy sporthorse market is not there, and that there are people not looking. Nor do I think the Appies can’t have the correct movement. We may not get the fancy harness movement in fashion right now, but that’s not the bulk of horses really out there. The bulk of dressage horses that do well are good, fluid movers that are quiet and steady. That I think is very attainable in the Appy. The one thing I see in general in Appies lack in the free shoulder, which is a lot connected to the hind end. Horses have “free” shoulders when they can sit and collect behind instead of falling on the forehand. The thing that Appies DO have the is a HUGE problem with most other horses is soundness. Besides the intelligence, athleticness and personalities, that can’t break 'em soundness is invaluable.

Ah. I wish I’d bred my crazy, super athletic mare this year, because she shows SO much better pregnant, and I would have that spotted foal next year. Maybe I’ll try Oreo again. I’ve seen him in person when I visited Mellanie, but couldn’t really look at his movement and she doesn’t have much that shows it. I saw a lovely, cheap filly on warmbloods-for-sale by him pretty cheap that has some pretty nice trot on her. I’d be buying her if she weren’t so far away. Maybe someone in NC?
http://www.warmbloods-for-sale.com/HorseDetail.asp?HorseID=25961&UserID=10709
For a two year old (who are usually about as butt ugly and butt high as you can get) and not the greatest video, she is showing some good ability to use her shoulder and step under behind. (I look for the separation of the hind legs–the farther they separate, the better I like it.)

[TrakHack]

I like a plain, dark colored horse and am in love with a solid bay yearling filly by one of JG’s Wap stallions out of a TB mare, bred by an acquaintance of mine. I like the type and temperament of sport Appaloosas, and this particular girl is going to be a beautiful sport horse with a very smart but ammy-friendly mind.

[HorseBreederDirect]

[QUOTE=Beentheredonethat;5772678]

I saw a lovely, cheap filly on warmbloods-for-sale by him pretty cheap that has some pretty nice trot on her. I’d be buying her if she weren’t so far away. Maybe someone in NC?
http://www.warmbloods-for-sale.com/HorseDetail.asp?HorseID=25961&UserID=10709
For a two year old (who are usually about as butt ugly and butt high as you can get) and not the greatest video, she is showing some good ability to use her shoulder and step under behind. (I look for the separation of the hind legs–the farther they separate, the better I like it.)[/QUOTE]

I’ve been watching this filly and her price has dropped over the last 6 months or so. I love my Butterwap mare, who’s all Appy, but I’d also love a ButterwapXwarmblood and this filly’s dam has some good warmblood breeding. I know she’s far from you, but I think this is going to be a nice sporthorse.