Where to find a saddlebred broodmare

[ASB_Stars]

[QUOTE=Donella;7434431]

I am truly sorry, but I have seen one too may pukes with brands on their asses, in my lifetime, to sit quietly for so obvious an insult. Every respectable breeder is going to breed to the exceptional horse, whatever they perceive that to be. And you know what? They are still going to get a whole lot of average.

So have I. That is my point exactly. There are already enough average horses out there…warmblood or not. You keep taking this as a jibe against ASB’s but as I have explained numerous times already, there are tonnes of average/below average of every breed out there. There are so many of them that there is no respectable reason to produce yet another one.

When you breed for average you don’t produce exceptional horses. That is why the horse slaughter issue exists. It exists because people who bred those horses did not have high enough standards when breeding! When you breed for exceptional, if you know what you are doing, you aren’t likely ever going to produce something of the same caliber found at the meat plant. Obviously it is possible. Anything is possible. But it is unlikely.[/QUOTE]

The mistake that you are making is that you want to believe that someone who is crossing to a breed of horse that you have virtually no real time experience with- as a sport horse- is unworthy, or less than appropriate. As stated, anyone- including the OP, that is looking to breed in this day and age, with an eye toward the market, is going to be attempting to produce the exceptional.

I do not blame you for your ignorance. But I do take exception to your consistent efforts at driving down what you obviously do not understand.

I have walked in your shoes, and I have long and deep experience in the sport horse world, and market, as a researcher, as well as an observer, competitor, and someone who got sent the results of a variety of kinds of breeding programs with instructions to make something of it, and sell it. It is for this very reason that I come to you and say that I have made the ASB my breed of choice. And yes, I have produced horses who could beat what was out there, but the key, as mentioned many times is preparation and training.

[Donella]

First of all, I would like to clear up the idea that I am poo pooing the breeding of amateur dressage horses. In no way do I mean to imply that and in fact I have sold some of my horses to ammy riders and I am super happy to do so. Heck, I am not a professional rider myself and I breed first and foremost for me and my (professional) partner. To me, what separates an amateur friendly dressage mount from a pro ride is temperament/rideability not quality. Lots of ammy riders out there want a super quality horse (even if they don’t need it, most want it). Why should a person breed for less quality simply because an amateur may buy it?? There are lots and lots of competitive ammy riders out there capable of taking a horse to the FEI levels. Some of the highest quality horses in our barn are owned by amateur riders, horses that, in the hands of capable pros could easily be team horses. But to make horses like this you have to aim high as a breeder, you can’t just say “well, most ammys don’t get past training level so any breed or any pretty horse will do”. Far from it.

Obviously , the word “exceptional” and the word “average” are subjective. My point is that if you are breeding for something that already exists in abundance for relatively little money you are breeding for average and for a market that is already saturated.

[silvia]

[QUOTE=Donella;7435213]
Obviously , the word “exceptional” and the word “average” are subjective. My point is that if you are breeding for something that already exists in abundance for relatively little money you are breeding for average and for a market that is already saturated.[/QUOTE]

I personally aim to produce amateur friendly horses that are talented enough to go to upper levels (eg small tour) and be competitive with that rider. I don’t think that is a saturated market.

[Kyzteke]

[QUOTE=silvia;7435227]
I personally aim to produce amateur friendly horses that are talented enough to go to upper levels (eg small tour) and be competitive with that rider. I don’t think that is a saturated market.[/QUOTE]
Really? Did you see the ad of a very nice little filly of very respectable pedigree for $4500 because the owner had no hay.

Do a search on Dreamhorse and you will find dozens of them.

Again, if the OP just wants to breed for herself and plans to keep the mare & foal no matter what, I have no problem with that. however, several of her comments indicate otherwise.

If she is looking for a good-minded horse to do lower to mid-level sport the point is…THERE ARE A TON OF THEM ALREADY OUT THERE…and for the same (more or less) than what she would pay to produce her own. Because even if she pays $4000 to produce the foal, she still has to raise it to a rideable age and that is going to add another $3-5K to the bill.

I DO breed for top level…because even if you breed for the top, most horses aren’t going to get there…for a variety of reasons.

However, until just recently most of my horses have been sold (as foals or yearlings) to ammies. They plunk along at 1st or 2nd level, doing their job, making their owners happy. Could they do more? Of course! It’s the owner/rider who restricts them.

And that is generally the case.

The point being, since we know nothing about the OP’s ability in this area, it really doesn’t matter what sort of horse she gets…it will only rise to her level…it can’t go beyond that, no matter what it’s breeding.

This is where buyers get into trouble…they think a $30,000 WB will make them a GP rider. Nope…in fact, there is a better chance of a GP rider making an “average” horses into a solid upper level competitor than there is of an ammie rider making a $30K WB into the same.

THE RIDER MAKES THE HORSE…no matter what the breed or what the discipline. Once people finally “get” this, they will spend more $$ on learning how to be good horsemen and less $$ on chasing some perfect horse who they think will take them there.

[fizzyfuzzybuzzy]

@Kyzteke;7435250

Again, if the OP just wants to breed for herself and plans to keep the mare & foal no matter what, I have no problem with that. however, several of her comments indicate otherwise.

If she is looking for a good-minded horse to do lower to mid-level sport the point is…THERE ARE A TON OF THEM ALREADY OUT THERE…and for the same (more or less) than what she would pay to produce her own. Because even if she pays $4000 to produce the foal, she still has to raise it to a rideable age and that is going to add another $3-5K to the bill.

I disagree with your statement. I am breeding with the INTENT of keeping the mare and foal forever. But in life, it would be unwise to think that situations don’t change and therefore plans have to change. So for me to think about if the mare and foal would be marketable to an ammy audience (the vast majority of my discipline) at a fair price…I don’t think I should be demonized for that.

And the “TONS out there” of horses under 5K? They are not what I am looking for. And that is my right…to not be in the market for what YOU are or would be in the market for. It’s what makes the world go 'round.

[FairWeather]

Bayhawk, since you’ve stated over and over again that you breed for the top of the sport, where can we find the products of your breeding program?

[Texarkana]

[QUOTE=FairWeather;7435360]
Bayhawk, since you’ve stated over and over again that you breed for the top of the sport, where can we find the products of your breeding program?[/QUOTE]

Mars. :lol:

I kid, he actually is a legit Holsteiner breeder. But not one I’m ever interested in doing business with after seeing his, er, “professionalism.”

[Bayhawk]

[QUOTE=FairWeather;7435360]
Bayhawk, since you’ve stated over and over again that you breed for the top of the sport, where can we find the products of your breeding program?[/QUOTE]

I’ve bred an approved stallion , champion mares , mares who have produced approved stallions , best foals in the country ,horses in sport , including one George Morris recently tried to buy and they are still coming. One of mine hasn’t reached the top of the sport yet ,but as a few of us keep saying , the aforementioned successes are a result of breeding for it.

[saje]

I generally love Holsteiners. Who are your top horses?

[Bayhawk]

[QUOTE=Texarkana;7435473]
Mars. :lol:

I kid, he actually is a legit Holsteiner breeder. But not one I’m ever interested in doing business with after seeing his, er, “professionalism.”[/QUOTE]

Don’t really care about your opinion of my bulletin board professionalism. If you judge me based off of direct ,blunt and strongly opinionated comments on an internet forum, then so be it.

I supply some of the biggest breeding and sporthorse farms in the country and they think my professionalism is just fine. I won’t have a client that needs to be coddled and sugar coated.

[FairWeather]

[QUOTE=Bayhawk;7435494]
I’ve bred an approved stallion , champion mares , mares who have produced approved stallions , best foals in the country ,horses in sport , including one George Morris recently tried to buy and they are still coming. One of mine hasn’t reached the top of the sport yet ,but as a few of us keep saying , the aforementioned successes are a result of breeding for it.[/QUOTE]

Names, photos or results anywhere? Someone shopping for your horse doesn’t really mean anything. I mean, if you’re going to have this giant ego about producing horses for the top of the sport, shouldn’t you have at least ONE on your resume?

[ASB_Stars]

[QUOTE=Bayhawk;7435664]
Don’t really care about your opinion of my bulletin board professionalism. If you judge me based off of direct ,blunt and strongly opinionated comments on an internet forum, then so be it.

I supply some of the biggest breeding and sporthorse farms in the country and they think my professionalism is just fine. I won’t have a client that needs to be coddled and sugar coated.[/QUOTE]

What do you supply them with?

[Kyzteke]

[QUOTE=fizzyfuzzybuzzy;7435314]

And the “TONS out there” of horses under 5K? They are not what I am looking for. And that is my right…to not be in the market for what YOU are or would be in the market for. It’s what makes the world go 'round.[/QUOTE]

Well, there is a wide variety of horses available. You never really said what discipline you are buying for (or if you did I missed; my apologies). Or why it must be a ASB/WB cross.

Did you own a ASBx prior or something? Just wondering why you are so positive that this cross is perfect for what it is you want to do…which is?

[MysticOakRanch]

Really, anyone who posts with such vigorous opinion as an expert should include their farm name. Their would be less bullying on the internet if everyone included their real identity.

[_Tradewind]

[QUOTE=MysticOakRanch;7435899]
http://sparlingrock.com/index-holsteiners-sparling-rock/

I’m guessing this is Bayhawk. Really, anyone who posts with such vigorous opinion as an expert should include their farm name. Their would be less bullying on the internet if everyone included their real identity.[/QUOTE]

Sparling Rock Holsteiners is owned/operated by Tim Kammerer (RyTimMick, on this forum), although he is a colleague of Reece’s (Bayhawk). I believe Bayhawk’s place is called Bayhawk Stables, so technically he has posted his farm name.

[Stoney447]

[QUOTE=MysticOakRanch;7435899]
http://sparlingrock.com/index-holsteiners-sparling-rock/

I’m guessing this is Bayhawk. Really, anyone who posts with such vigorous opinion as an expert should include their farm name. Their would be less bullying on the internet if everyone included their real identity.[/QUOTE]

I was not going to post again on this thread, but I just wanted to say that Tim Kammerer is not Bayhawk and should not be drawn into any of this. I don’t think it is fair to just assume you know who someone is and post a random farm.

[_Tradewind]

Posting at the same time, Stoney!

[MysticOakRanch]

[QUOTE=Stoney447;7435930]
I was not going to post again on this thread, but I just wanted to say that Tim Kammerer is not Bayhawk and should not be drawn into any of this. I don’t think it is fair to just assume you know who someone is and post a random farm.[/QUOTE]

Apologized and deleted the link - if you google with “bayhawk” and “Holsteiner”, this is the first result that pops up. Bayhawk should make his identify known based on his strong and outspoken opinions.

[Stoney447]

[QUOTE=MysticOakRanch;7435940]
Apologized and deleted the link - if you google with “bayhawk” and “Holsteiner”, this is the first result that pops up. Bayhawk should make his identify known based on his strong and outspoken opinions.[/QUOTE]

No problem, just don’t want ole Tim to get any hate mail resulting from this thread

[stoicfish]

[QUOTE=MysticOakRanch;7435940]
Apologized and deleted the link - if you google with “bayhawk” and “Holsteiner”, this is the first result that pops up. Bayhawk should make his identify known based on his strong and outspoken opinions.[/QUOTE]

I don’t agree that to have an opinion, you should list your personal info. There are some real odd people out there. My first couple of months on this board got me a PM from Doug Spink, lesson learned.
Information or opinions should stand on there own merit whether is it from an expect or being recited by a dog with a keyboard.

I guess the only exception is when people use their personal experience as an argument. But personal experience is very limited, regardless of who you are.