Which Poulin feed for easy keeper

[mfglickman]

Daughter is taking 6 yo ranch/reining bred mare to college. Little mare (14.1) maintains very well at home on about 2/3 of a standard measuring cup of TC Balancer Gold twice per day, plus a smartpak with flax, natural Vitamin E, and MVP In Sync 4 for magnesium and vitamin/mineral. She eats 15-20 lbs of good quality first cut timothy/orchard mix per day.

The boarding facility is offering the following Poulin grains. I can provide my own but would be an additional cost to feed it.

Any input would be appreciated. I did send them a question to confirm they don’t offer any kind of balancer, as that seems surprising to me…

My choices are as follows:
EQUIPRO PerforMAX
E-TEC ONE
E-TEC ONE low carb senior

[islgrl]

I feed Poulin Balancer. The senior has higher fat than the One, the Performax is a pretty high octane feed. I would choose One or, buy Balancer, or see if she can go without grain at all …

[JB]

@mfglickman

E-TEC ONE

The problem is that anything but a balancer will require more pounds, and therefore more calories.

The E-TEC One is minimally .3lb per 100lb body weight for no work, and if she’s going to be in moderate work that/s .5lb/100lb. If she’s 800lb that’s 4lb. That might be ok, might make her heavy

Performax and Senior Low Carb both have a higher min feeding rate

If those are truly your only choices, then go with E-Tec One, at the bare min for her workload, and hope she doesn’t get too heavy. Otherwise, it will need to be the Balancer again.

What will the hay situation be like there? 20lb of a good quality T/O hay is a good bit for a 14.1 horse, unless she’s a tank and is 1000lb+. If the college barn feeds lesser quality, or lesser amount of hay, the higher feeding rate of the One may be beneficial.

What I wouldn’t do is not supply any fortification. The MVP product isn’t a very robust v/m supplement. If you’re using it for the v/m, it’s not that great, especially on top of a good ration balancer. If you’re using it for the Mg, then their Magnesium 5000 is a cheaper option

[mfglickman]

Thanks for your thoughts.

Her hay intake is somewhat variable and I’m estimating because she has a slow feeder net and Porta grazer, so there is always hay available, she’s not always eating. She’s about 850-900 so she is a bit of a tank, but vet and trainer are happy with her condition.

There’s no way she can get 3 lbs of grain without getting heavy; maybe I will bring a balancer. I don’t mind paying for the grain but I hate then paying to have it fed (they probably use a cart so I get it it’s a change and a task for the workers, I understand I just wish it didn’t lol).

What would you recommend as a decent VM supp that I can get in smartpaks? I like this one for the mag and for the natural vitamin E

[JB]

Do you have to pay them to feed supplements too? I ask to try to get a feel for what “inconvenience” it is you’re paying for.

For example, if you used California Trace Pellets, plus a couple cups of alfalfa pellets to mix, would you have to pay for them to feed that, especially if you put it all in a small container to just dump, no measuring/scooping required?

MVP Magnesium 5000 comes in packs

If your horse would eat gel caps of Vit E, microIngredient gelcaps are 1200IU and you could toss 2 of them in the container, for about $.14-.18 (total). SP has Vit E in packs, but they’re all a lot more $$, the cheapest - Elevate Maintenance - would be $1/day for 2000IU

[mfglickman]

Last year’s paperwork said $25 a month to feed supplements and they had to be smartpaks. This year’s has no charge for feeding supplements (has to be smartpak or in ziplocks) and it says see additional costs page for providing your own grain, but there is no charge listed there. (Clearly they just re-did this paperwork, and didn’t dot all the i’s and cross all the t’s…)

She would probably eat the capsules. I’d have to look into whether they would wet pellets for me.

[JB]

ok, so a pelleted forage balancer - California Trace and High Point Grass are the only 2 I know come in pellets - plus 1-2c hay pellets + 2 of the microIngredient E gelcaps, would fit in a 3c capacity container, and then the SP with pelleted magnesium, no wetting needed

[mfglickman]

Don’t the hay pellets need to be soaked? They seem hard as rocks and are pretty big.

[JB]

How well does he chew? It depends on which kind of pellets you get. Lots of them are no bigger or harder than a pelleted feed

[candyappy]

Is she still going to get all the supplements? If she is, then just choose a feed they provide but just give her a cup or so, so in her mind she isn’t missing out on anything.

Sounds like she get all the vitamins/ minerals she really needs and doesn’t have to have feed. If her work load or weight changes just adjust the amount she gets to match her needs.

[JB]

@candyappy

Is she still going to get all the supplements? If she is, then just choose a feed they provide but just give her a cup or so, so in her mind she isn’t missing out on anything.

A cup of a regular feed doesn’t in any way replace the nutrition in the ration balancer the horse is currently on.

@candyappy

Sounds like she get all the vitamins/ minerals she really needs and doesn’t have to have feed.

the MVP v/m product doesn’t have a whole lot of the things most needed, certainly not to the level the Balancer Gold is providing.

[mfglickman]

She’s young and teeth are fine…I’ve had Standlee and one other brand…Dumor maybe? And found them both big and hard as rocks. I wish someone made them in a little pellet the way so many supplements that use alfalfa as a carrier are made.

[JB]

Dumor straight alfalfa pellets ARE big and hard. You could try the Dumor Alfalfa/Bermuda pellets, which do have some other things in them, they’re very lightly fortified. They’re bigger still, but they’re also a lot softer

Do you have anyone who sells AlfaGreen alfalfa pellets? They’re small and soft, like a normal pelleted feed.

[candyappy]

@JB

A cup of a regular feed doesn’t in any way replace the nutrition in the ration balancer the horse is currently on.

The barn doesn’t offer a RB and with the supplements and her being an easy keeper, sounds
like she doesn’t need supplemental feed at all.

@JB

the MVP v/m product doesn’t have a whole lot of the things most needed, certainly not to the level the Balancer Gold is providing.

Then why would you feed it? I ask because it seems people are feeding both feed and a V/M supplement? Seems like a waste if they are supposed to be getting what the horse needs if feeding the recommended amount of one or the other?

[JB]

@candyappy

The barn doesn’t offer a RB

I"m aware, but she can provide her own if she wants

@candyappy

and with the supplements and her being an easy keeper, sounds
like she doesn’t need supplemental feed at all.

My last comment went into detail on this. The current supplement isn’t nearly as robust as a ration balancer, or even a forage balancer, and IMNSHO, every horse needs reasonable supplementation beyond forage. So IF the route is to not use the barn’s feeds, and IF the barn won’t charge extra to feed Smart Packs and/or supplements in handy ziplocks, THEN a nice option is 1-2c of some hay pellets + a forage balancer in pelleted form, easy peasy. But IF the barn would charge to feed the ziplocks, THEN I would probably go with the convenience of a ration balancer of her choice, as that’s usually cheaper than a good forage balancer anyway.

@candyappy

Then why would you feed it? I ask because it seems people are feeding both feed and a V/M supplement? Seems like a waste if they are supposed to be getting what the horse needs if feeding the recommended amount of one or the other?

And per my first comment on this post, that’s exactly what I said - I wouldn’t bother with that v/m supplement. it seems she’s using it pretty much for the magnesium and the Vit E, and I gave her alternatives, both of which come in Smart Packs, both of which can be supplied separately.

[candyappy]

@JB

I wouldn’t bother with that v/m supplement.

Not just the OP or the supplement they chose, I was asking why so many owners feed expensive V/M supplements in addition to a full serving of RB or fortified feeds?

[JB]

@candyappy

I was asking why so many owners feed expensive V/M supplements in addition to a full serving of RB or fortified feeds?

There are some valid reasons, including low quality hay, and a total diet analysis showing that a specific product is what it takes to balance things.

But in general, I do see a lot of people adding some popular brand v/m supp on top of a fully fortified diet, and either the v/m has so little of everything in it it’s just wasted $, or there are significant amounts of some things to the point it’s potentially a problem.

[Chief2]

Poulin makes an excellent Ration Balancer. I would suggest going up on their website, getting the telephone number, and having a talk with the company’s nutritionist. If the barn can order in the other three Poulin products, chances are good they can order in the RB for you and you can reimburse them if need be. That would make it easier. Good luck with your horse!

[RhythmNCruise]

In place of the ration balancer AND v/m supplement from MVP, I’d suggest getting a good forage balancer (CA Trace was mentioned, I personally use KIS Trace…which does come pelleted as well if you’d rather). Add MVP’s Magnesium 5000 to that (I feed this as well). This will take care of all of her nutritional needs and then if she doesn’t hold her weight on the forage, you could have them add a little bit of their grain as well. I know diddly-squat about Poulin feeds, but I’d go with the lowest carb option.

[mfglickman]

Update, I was able to visit the barn this weekend. Didn’t see the barn manager, but wandered the aisles and didn’t see a single stall with balancer on its sheet. The easy keeper type ponies and Haffies were all marked with anywhere from a handful to a cup of the ETEC ONE, so I am guessing that balancer isn’t an option. I can ask?

@candyappy to respond to your question about why I would feed a V/M supplement, this horse is 6 years old and in work 5 days a week and showing a good portion of the summer. She would get fat off of 1-2 lbs of balancer; she gets about 0.5 lbs a day give or take.

My daughter is on board with mixing something up in ziploc containers if I ship it all to her dorm so I may go that route. I ordered one of the Mad Barn pelleted (Amino Trace) , MVP Mag, and Vit E capsules. I want to be sure she’ll eat a Mad Barn product before delivering her on campus. Since the barn seems open to doing small servings I can ask them to do a handful or so of the etec one of that makes it more palatable for her.

FWIW it’s a wonderfully supportive equestrian community and beautiful facility, and my daughter is so excited to be able to bring her girl. She even requested and got the dorm next door to the stables (and farthest from the rest of campus) to be nearer to her friend.