Whining Rat Terrier

[theblondejumper]

So I have a 13 year old rat terrier whom I love to pieces. But the WHINING is driving me NUTS!

We’ve had her since July. The first couple of days she was very whining as she settled in with us. We learned that when she doesn’t like to be picked up or she’s pushed she “squawks” kind of like a mini-bark. She doesn’t have any teeth but her vet visits have been very stressful on her so they always muzzle her.

Anyway, at our old home (we moved 3 weeks ago) she did a LOT of stairs and those plus swimming regularly aggravated an old injury so she was having pain and taking pain pills (Metformin? I think) once a day.

In the last week or so she’s become super whiny. She is my little shadow – she follows me everywhere and when I was out of town recently my boyfriend said she was pretty stressed. We crate her each night and it can take 30 minutes or so for her to stop whining and go to sleep. Just now she’s lying in her bed whining. Our new home doesn’t have stairs so she’s not in pain to my knowledge.

Any other long term terrier owners who have a suggestion? I mostly just ignore it but the late night whining is getting pretty old. She gets taken out probably every 3 - 4 hours during the day for potty breaks as I am in and out during the day.

[Bluey]

13 for some dogs can be very old, maybe she is having cognitive problems?

Where is the crate you keep her in at night?
Do you have a routine to crate at night, with a walk first and then a treat once in there?
Best is starting by keeping the crate by your bed, where you could stick your fingers in there and she knows you are there, like with a puppy.
After she is used to that, start not putting your fingers there, then start moving the crate away a bit at the time, until you have it where you want it.

Would it work for you to fix an X-pen with the crate on one end, but where she can come and go into the x-pen?
See if that helps her settle, not feel confined in the crate.

I have an almost 9 year old rat terrier.
As with any dog, I have always responded when they bark or whine, I see what they want and then moved on.
Every dog I have trained like that has been a minimal barker or whiner, because they understand it is communication, not a way to release frustration or confusion.
That may not work once the dog is really old and “forgets”, we will have to see with this one, it did with the others, but they didn’t have cognitive problems when old.

Keep thinking about this, something may just work, who knows what that may be.

[Nezzy]

i suspect she is in pain or discomfort. i would have the vet check. She might have back pain.

[theblondejumper]

Thanks for both of the replies!

[MustangSavvy]

[QUOTE=Nezzy;7811966]
i suspect she is in pain or discomfort. i would have the vet check. She might have back pain.[/QUOTE]

Agreed! She needs to get checked out by a vet.

[Foxtrot_s]

If she is not in pain, are you inadvertently ‘training’ her so that when she whines or barks you jump up and say ‘how high’? i.e. rewarding her for her communication?

I did with our Bull Terrier - he’s so demanding and high maintenance, dear man.

[Whitfield_Farm_Hanov]

As they get older they sometimes have to pee more frequently. The long night hours in a crate can be stressful if she has to go.
Also, why font you just let her sleep on your bed or beside it? If you’ve just gotten her at this advanced age, no wonder she’s stressed.

[theblondejumper]

Hey everyone. Thanks for the input. I didn’t mean to sound so glib in my original post, I just have a hard time distinguishing between “I want attention” whining and “Hey! Something hurts!” whining.

Here’s some more background on our situation:

Adopted the dog in July. We were told that she was in the early stages of kidney failure and had arthritis. Foster mom whom we met with disputed this. She was on Proin from January - June of this year. We do not have her on medication.

Two weeks after adoption I took her to her required free wellness exam with a vet close by (purely out of convenience for the both of us). She was very stressed at the exam, they muzzled her and determined she had some arthritis in her back left leg. Vet was not concerned about her kidney levels.

We took her canoeing with us one day and she ended up swimming for about ten minutes afterwards. My boyfriend witnessed her slip and bang her left leg (the one with arthritis) on a rock.

She went back to the vet for her follow up lipo vaccine. We saw a different vet. This one also muzzled/had a hard time determining the extent of the arthritis but encouraged us to increase her exercise to strengthen the muscle – “she likes to swim? take her swimming a few times a week!”

That was the beginning of August. We took her swimming a few times a week for about two and a half weeks. We had stairs at our old place. At the end of the month she had one night where she just couldn’t settle down so out of concern for her we took her to the ER vet. He was very adamant that she did not need to swim PERIOD. Bloodwork showed that her kidney levels were in the NORMAL range. He gave us pain medicine, said keep the exercise to a minimum.

That scared us pretty good.

I didn’t feel like she was getting a conclusive exam at the old vet and I didn’t enjoy muzzling her in the least – it was very stressful.

We booked a ($$) appointment with our local mobile vet who came out to our old home. He spent about 20 minutes with her medical records. He was concerned that the most recent bloodwork stated that her LIVER levels were high and was annoyed that the ER vet did not discuss that with us. His exam was thorough. He asserted that it is not arthritis but an old injury that may have been aggravated. And he encouraged us to work on helping her stay calm when handled (which we have been doing). Bottom line: stick with 20 - 30 minute walks daily, limit jumping/climbing/stairs (new place has that covered), and help her lose another 5 lbs. We would re-test levels closer to December.

So, long story short, it’s been a little over a month since her last vet visit. She was having much more visible pain (hopping, limping on her bad leg) up until our move here. Right after we moved I was out of town for a week. I try to keep her routine as much as I can: 6:30 - 7 am feeding, 6:30 - 7 pm feeding. In addition to the whining she’s had less energy around the house the last few days. When she needs to go out she hangs out by the door. We take her out every 3 - 4 hours. Last night we were up every few hours taking her out. That was rough. She sleeps in her crate in our kitchen.

I appreciate anyone who reads all of that! We adopted an older dog because we wanted to give her a good home in her older years – I’ve accepted that we will probably just be “managing” her condition, not finding a concrete solution. She is a very friendly, loving and generally sweet natured dog so I am very aware if anything changes.

Thank you for all of the replies and suggestions. I guess I just came on here to vent…

[Bluey]

How many hours is she in the crate at night?

Try putting the crate in your room, that may help her be happier, settle and not whine, being closer to you.

If you were leaving her in the kitchen, could that be closed where she didn’t need to be in the crate?

Our minpin lived to 17, slower but still healthy and sound, even if at 2 years old he broke his hind leg.
Age is different for each dog, she may be an old dog, or just one with health problems, not as old as a really old dog may be.

I expect you will over time find a way to handle whatever comes.
Too bad you had to go thru all that with different vets.
That each one had a different opinion didn’t help matters any.

[wendy]

I think she’s in pain. Exercise, particularly swimming, is very good for arthritis. There are many things you can do do for arthritis- but first you need an actual diagnosis.

[theblondejumper]

[QUOTE=wendy;7813222]
I think she’s in pain. Exercise, particularly swimming, is very good for arthritis. There are many things you can do do for arthritis- but first you need an actual diagnosis.[/QUOTE]

Thanks Wendy!

We’ve had conflicting advice – two vets felt that it was moderate arthritis after physical examination. One encouraged the swimming. The ER vet we saw said the next step was X-rays but he didn’t they would tell us much. He highly discouraged the swimming. And the last vet we saw examined the scar on her leg and did the most thorough physical examination and felt that in addition to arthritis it was actually an old injury – and that we didn’t need to aggravate.

She is a VERY strong swimmer for her age and would happily swim for 10 - 20 minutes if we let her. Always in shallow water and my boyfriend (this being summer) would swim with her and keep her close.

So…I’m a bit at a loss. We were out for a few hours tonight and came home to her barking (she was in her crate for 5 hours – the most we normally keep her there aside from sleeping). I gave her some of her pain medicine and I’m letting her sleep in our room in her own bed tonight to see if that helps her.

Thanks again for the replies!

[alto]

I can’t imagine why one of the vets discouraged swimming

Try to sort out a vet that dog can see consistently, this is much more important with an older dog.
Take dog into vet office for treats & just “visting” the waiting room etc, try to arrange for a less busy time so that staff/vets might have a moment to offer dog a treat etc.
Also treat train dog to happily accept the muzzle.

Last night we were up every few hours taking her out. That was rough.

Check back with the rescue/foster mom re the Proin - this may be related.

In the last week or so she’s become super whiny

In an older dog with suspected health issues, this would be reason for me to call the vet.
You might check thyroid levels (Hemopet is the gold standard of thyroid testing).

Thanks for adopting this girl :yes:

[Whitfield_Farm_Hanov]

First a BIG HUG & THANK YOU for adopting a senior pup.
Have you contacted an Eastern Medicine vet? Mine has made a huge difference in my senior. Also chiro & accupuncture have helped a lot.

[Foxtrot_s]

Our 14 y.o. Bull Terrier is on a very affordable monthly shot called Cartrophan and she is a new dog when she’s had the shot.

Squish the Bunny also has told us of a similar shot but since Cartrophan works for us I’ve not tried it.

[Chall]

Doesn’t one (human or dog) need X-rays to determine arthritis?
I thought that would have been done after seeing three vets. And it’s not expensive.

[theblondejumper]

Thanks everyone.

I’m really curious about trying acupuncture for her – I think it could really help her relax when being handled. When muzzled at the vet she is a squeeling, squirming, growling mess.

My SO and I are going to talk about what might be the best next step. I don’t think it would hurt it to put her back on Proin and I will ask our vet about Cartophan.

The mobile vet we saw (who I found to be the most thorough but I wasn’t crazy about his bedside manner – I felt more that he was judging us rather than guiding us towards what may be most appropriate for her) discouraged the swimming because in his opinion, assuming it is an old injury it is just being pounded on when swimming.

Since we moved across town there may be another vet that is better suited. I know it sounds like we’re playing musical vets here, feels a bit dumb but I’m particular and I don’t mind being so.

And thank you to everyone who is being supportive about adopting an older dog. She is so sweet and cute and we try to take her out and try new stuff without stressing her out – she is super curious and very trusting.

[theblondejumper]

Did some quick googling and I found a different mobile vet who also practices acupuncture in our area. That is the next person we’ll call.

[Nezzy]

good luck. my dog with anal gland surgery had acupuncture to get her nerves working again, and it helped a lot. i know with horses, if they stand around with arthritis, they get stiff. If they keep moving they do better. i would think it is similar with dogs.

[Romany]

Another NO on the swimming! Just, you know, for a bit of variety and contrariness on COTH.

Seriously, though: when a dog swims, it uses its tail as a rudder. If it doesn’t swim particularly often, or is a bit energetic and enthusiastic in its swimming, this can wreak havoc with the joints in the spine at the base of the tail, causing AGONIZING intermittent pain.

Reason I know this is we took our middle-aged enthusiastic terrier swimming at a friend’s cottage a few years ago. Dog had a BLAST, swimming with glee all day, obviously madly in love with the idea, but omg a day or two later he was in so much pain, it was just awful. He would cry and whine if he took a wrong step…fine for 10 minutes, or an hour or two, but then suddenly crying with agony for no obvious reason.

Fortunately we had the equine chiro (also a DVM) coming to see the horses, and she did some work on the sore points of his spine, and it was like night and day, he was so much better afterwards. She was the one who explained to me about lower back pain precipitated by swimming.

Good for you for taking on an older dog with issues - it’s not easy, but they are just so rewarding, and too-often bypassed for the younger flashier ones at the pounds. We’ve had a few, and I haven’t regretted one. Sure, they come with baggage, but who cares, they get a loving retirement, and we get to enjoy their mature company.

[Romany]

Another NO on the swimming! Just, you know, for a bit of variety and contrariness on COTH.

Seriously, though: when a dog swims, it uses its tail as a rudder. If it doesn’t swim particularly often, or is a bit energetic and enthusiastic in its swimming, this can wreak havoc with the joints in the spine at the base of the tail, causing AGONIZING intermittent pain.

Reason I know this is we took our middle-aged enthusiastic terrier swimming at a friend’s cottage a few years ago. Dog had a BLAST, swimming with glee all day, obviously madly in love with the idea, but omg a day or two later he was in so much pain, it was just awful. He would cry and whine if he took a wrong step…fine for 10 minutes, or an hour or two, but crying with agony for no obvious reason.

Fortunately we had the equine chiro (also a DVM) coming to see the horses, and she did some work on the sore points of his spine, and it was like night and day, he was so much better afterwards. She was the one who explained to me about lower back pain precipitated by swimming.

Good for you for taking on an older dog with issues - it’s not easy, but they are just so rewarding, and too-often bypassed for the younger flashier ones at the pounds. We’ve had a few, and I haven’t regretted one. Sure, they come with baggage, but who cares, they get a loving retirement, and we get to enjoy their mature company.