What is the physiological reason a horse develops the light white “lipstick” when being ridden correctly? I know heavy foam is from inability to swallow, but what about the lighter foam? Why is it a good sign (as in, what good response is it indicating)? Conversely, what is a horse that does not develop the “lipstick” not doing correctly?
Certainly, some horses naturally have more saliva than others. As an example, some get lipstick easily in a cavesson on the longe line.
It related to the soft chewing/licking motion of their tongue and jaw which means they are not braced/locked against the bit, but rather accepting it. It ties in to their neck and back all the way to their tail. A horse with a locked back may not salivate at all, or may get strings of saliva coming out its mouth without the gentle lipstick. A locked back and locked jaw tend to be paired together, and it lessens a horse’s power and ability to both collect and propel. So in essence, it’s a sign of how saliva represents the whole body. 
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I believe this is a myth and not a sign of anything other than the horse makes foam. I can make a nice foamy mouth by giving my horse an apple and I guarantee she is not really doing anything with her back when she eats it. Some horses get sloppier in the mouth with a bit; some are more active in the mouth; some are more quiet; some horses makes tons of foam when they are nervous. Horses have different mouth physiologies and some have less room for the bit to move around. People give horses sugar BEFORE the horse has worked, often to create such foam, saliva or sloppiness because it makes the bit slide easier. Perhaps I am jaded, but I think this is a bit of a crock.
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You are completely correct. Horses produce about 10 gallons of saliva a day, most of which they swallow. To have excess saliva in the mouth, the horse is either increasing saliva production or not swallowing as much saliva. Simply having an object in the mouth stimulates production of saliva. Then by strapping the mouth shut (which limits jaw and tongue movement) and forcing the horse to carry it’s head in a position where the trachea and esophagus are compromised, you will have more saliva accumulate in the mouth since the horse is unable to swallow normally. Even a basic dressage head position will cause some obstruction. If people want to argue that this is a sign of good horsemanship, go for it.
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I kind of agree! While a totally dry mouth may indicate tension, I do agree some horses just make foam, no matter what. It is kind of like the “swinging tail” myth. People use to say if the tail was swinging, the back was loose and swinging. And I can tell you from experience - years ago, I rode a horse that was HEAVY and TIGHT backed, but he foamed and his tail swung, and I got all kinds of great comments because of it. Several trainers got on him and said they would never have guessed…
ETA - there is too much of a good thing! As several have pointed out - excessive drool, thick foam (it should NOT look like meringue!!!) are generally indicative of tension.
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Like I said, horses are different, but I’ve definitely observed more signs of “lipstick” on horses I’ve ridden as the training improved. And that includes horses ridden without a noseband, so the mouth was not strapped shut.
The lipstick was not a thing when I did western/pleasure riding where we didn’t really think about the activity of the back and hind legs.
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My opinion of the lipstick, first and foremost is a sign of relaxation.
Regardless of if they are in the pasture, on the lunge or under saddle - An anxious, uptight horse will hold tension in the jaw (among other things). If a horse is scared, they will not be grazing in the pasture, but standing with head as high as it can go, all muscles tight ready to spring if necessary. The same can be said when we are working them - a horse that is not submitting to the aids is resisting them, and will not be softly chewing the bit to create the white lipstick.
This will either create complete absence of saliva, or an overabundance
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Foam has become en vogue in dressage in the last decade or so.
How is this foam created? The same way any foam is created… by whipping in air to the liquid.
In a horse’s mouth, this means vigorous working of saliva by the tongue and surrounding tissue. A horse that is truly relaxed and understands/is not trying to avoid the bit does not work their tongue and mouth enough to produce tons of foam. Why? Because they swallow excess saliva, as they should. Simply put, the only way to get lots of foam is to have an excess of saliva and enough tension that the horse cannot swallow and is working their tongue and jaw excessively. You can achieve the above by riding on a heavy contact, strapping the mouth shut, poor or incorrect head position, etc. All of these cause tension, which causes anxiety, which usually causes avoidance to some degree.
There are plenty of dressage riders who will vehemently disagree and try and justify why their horse is different… but it’s all baloney.
A very light “lipstick”? In some horses, yes. But we are talking light, as in not perceivable from a distance and not dripping all over the place. Otherwise, the horse’s mouth is truly no different than it is at any other moment in his day.
The one instance I would say I might expect to see foam is in the very beginning with a high anxiety type horse the is first learning the bit and doesn’t really get it yet. He might fidget with it just trying to figure it out and so might whip up some foam, but that period shouldn’t last long as he gets more educated and OK with it.
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A light lipstick cannot be a result of acceptance of the bit, as a horse will get that white lipstick being ridden bitless. but yet bits are sold in special metals to increase salivation? If it is a sign of relaxation, why does it not develop when the horse is sitting relaxed in turn out?
It must be something postural. What I am curious about, is what that posture is, and is it really a good thing? What actually happens in their mouth to make them create that light foam? If it is that the posture is compromising the ability to swallow, then why is this something desirable?
Again, I am not talking about copious foam, or clear drool, I am just talking about the lighter white lipstick.
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Yes, the foam is a result of friction of the lips which are wet with saliva because the horse has a bit in it’s mouth, swallows less, and has it’s mouth strapped shut.
My mare gets a nice foamy mouth at a show, when she is more nervous and chomps; at home, we get tons of saliva slopping everywhere in long strings, but not a lot of foam. My mare does have a very small throat latch area for the jaw and I like her nose more IFV because conformationally she is not built to have her face comfortably on vertical. I think that she gets the foam when she compresses too much, or when she chomps more nervously, but when she is correct, for her conformation, I just get drool. (And, btw, in addition to the short throat latch, she has a narrow chin, a giant tongue and a low palate). Her mouth is so filled with tongue, I bit her with a reverse angle port bit (Neue Schule Pacifier) so that the port never scrapes the palate or puts pressure on the tongue when engaged). Tongue pressure will make her chomp and create foam, but also open her mouth to relieve the pressure.
I know people who show or judge internationally and there is always a new fad for helping to create foam: a certain kind of pear fed just before getting on; a certain number of sugar cubes; a handful of grapes, etc. It is desirable, but not necessarily something that all horses can easily produce or produce when they are correct. I challenge you to find pictures of Nuno Olivera, for example, with his horse’s mouths covered in foam. Ok you might find ONE horse ridden by Nuno to have that foam. It might be connected to the horse’s conformation, or to their temperament, or to their level of mouth activity.
Or maybe its marshmallow fluff?
I’ve had horse’s who wore lipstick and some who never did. I think it’s an individual thing like some horses pooping when relaxed and others when they are nervous.
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The term “accepting the bit” is deceitful. I think of it more as a horse not tensing against the bit. In this case it would be the horse not tensing against the rider. I have one horse that gets the lipstick in a hackamore if ridden correctly. outerbanks77 made a point of this at the beginning of this thread, and I have found this to be correct as well.
When the horses are turned out they are typically grazing, so swallowing any excess saliva.
When the horses have the lipstick under saddle it is a sign that they ARE swallowing, or else it would be a slobbery mess. The lighter amount indicates that the horse is relaxed, moving over the back, not tensing against the bit and swallowing.
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If you’re getting strings of saliva, then your horse is still not swallowing. How she goes may look correct, but she’s still not able to get rid of excess saliva by swallowing and so it’s coming out her mouth.
Based on your report of her conformation and mouth I’d still be looking for a better bit or diving further into assessing if she’s truly going correctly. Sounds like the bit may be impacting her ability to swallow.
OP, your answer is this: if foam is achieved by excess saliva pooling in the mouth and then being whipped up by excess movement of the tongue and jaw, which it is, then ANY amount of foam is caused by this. Thus, “some foam” or a “light lipstick” is not “ideal”, and should not be sought after and as prized like it is in the dressage world. If your horse is developing enough of a foam that it is clearly visible every ride from a distance, of should question why. If everything else is germaine, if the horse is lifting the base of the neck, soft in the hands and is not mentally bothered, there isn’t any issues with the teeth and the bit fits well, then it probably nothing of concern. But it’s not an “ideal” that everyone should be working towards: that’s what got the sport to the point where people give their horse soap chips or sugar cubes before tests.
Several horses I ride develop very minimal lipstick with most of their rides. But I can pinpoint what I did in those rides that caused the horse to fuss or brace on the bit, get anxious or mobilize the bit more than usual, and it’s usually when I’m asking for something hard, or the horse gets anticipatory about a request. Once they understand what’s being asked, the mouth goes quiet and the tongue stays still.
There’s a number of things that can contribute to foam and posture is one: horses that go broken at C3, go in a false frame where the head is on the vertical and the horse is poll high but the base of the neck is dropped, horses that are forced into a fixed position via draw reins or unyielding hands, horses that go in a bit that uses mostly tongue pressure and are ridden “on contact” (ie heavy in the hand)…all of these will cause the horse to assume a posture that can compress the pharynx and/or base of the tongue and make it difficult for the horse to swallow.
But foam can also be caused by malocclusion of the teeth, poor bit fit, a mouth wound…or just if he’s nervous and harboring anxiety.
Regarding bits meant to encourage salivation, save your money. The horse lubricates his mouth plenty with or without a bit in it: the only time he may not is if he’s scared, and that’s a normal physiological response. Don’t work your horse scared and a steel bit will do you just fine.
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Being on the bit is the phrase which , to me, even more has a failure in the English language. I feel that accepting the bit (vs trying to spit it out or bracing against it) is important when you have a bit in the horse’s mouth, but actually being on the bit can happen without a bit - throughness, correct use of the topline, relaxation, effects actually frequently not seen out and about because the focus is on the bit and not the body of the horse.
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Actually, no. The saliva starts as soon as the bridle is on, before bits are engaged, even before I give her a peppermint for being nice to bridle. I believe that it is a reaction to having something put in her mouth, and perhaps a bit of a reaction to the copper metal in the bit.
There is an old school classical based judge on one of my fb groups that always states the various types of foam quite nicely. I wouldn’t even know how to find it at this point. I’m kind of hoping someone is able to step up and give a brief description of how the various types of foam and saliva are created in regard to tension and relaxation.
Different types of foam can mean different things, depending on what is happening in the horse’s mouth. And of course all horses are going to be a little different.
When the jaw is relaxed and the horse is accepting the bit, you should see a light lipstick on the lips, and it should drip down the front of the lip. Not too thick, not too thin.
And this is what I generally see after a rewarding ride.
I question some of the comments stating it is bogus.
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My question is WHY. Most answers I receive are vague like this and based on observation and not science/understanding.
But…it must be postural. Disciplines that reward a flatter/longer neck do not have the same infatuation with foam even though they value relaxation into the bit as well.
Tighter flexion at the pole? How the jaw lines up when “on the bit”?
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Probably Kierkegaard. Her comments on foam/lipstick here:
https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/forum/discussion-forums/dressage/207649-lipstick-foam-opinions
One can find numerous discussions on this topic many places and comments from some respected authorities not all of which are in agreement.
One point I think we would all agree with is that in order to get foam (or even lipstick) the tongue has to whip it. So, the more chewing and tongue thrusting, the more foam, assuming saliva is getting produced.
I do not buy into the thinking that is there is tremendous foam that is negative. I’ve seen many a supple, relaxed horse have it.
Sadly, I have one that just has a little bit of bubbles on his bit when I take off the bridle. I would love to have foam.
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We were posting at the same time. As to ‘why’, I recently read an article that says it is due to the rounded supple back. That is something horses other than dressage don’t have. Food for thought.
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