What made you decide to remove soy from your horse’s diet, and what did you use as a protein source instead? Have you noticed any changes in your horse since you removed soy?
No More Soy
I recently took our TB gelding off Soy. He is 15yrs old and we got him in December. We had a hard time keeping weight on him and then a few months ago he started to break out in Hives, which we could not resolve UNTIL we removed all processed feeds. After reading about Soy allergies here on COTH we narrowed it down to this with the help of our vet.
He is now on Soaked Hay cubes and Beet Pulp with some oil, with a small amount of rice bran. Some one on here also recommended Oats.
His condition has improved so much. He has gained weight steadily and his coat looks awesome. He is also less stressed and not as jittery as before. My kids’ trainer saw his this past weekend for the first time in 6 weeks and was pleased at the improvement in his overall appearance:)
GB
I didn’t see that thread, thanks. I don’t venture to sporthorse breeding very often.
Thanks blakesbunch.
I’ve been evaluating my feeding program (I constantly do) and actually came across the thyroid supression/soy link when doing some research for my own health, and then I started to think. I know that equines and humans have different digestive systems but I’ve just felt like my feeding program is not 100% right for my horses.
I have an ancient mini who is probably going on pergolide in the next week or so pending some test results, an old fat paint horse who needs to drop some weight, and an enigma of a TB to try and accomodate. Fortunately I am married to a feed dealer so I have access to a lot of stuff, but unfortunately I am super lazy (I prefer the term efficient) and I don’t want to feed 3 different feeds and 20 different supplements.
When I first got my TB, he was from a very old school barn that fed straight oats. Only oats. It wasn’t long after that he turned into a hot mess and I’ve always just thought that his “meds” must have worn off, but now I’m wondering if my feeding program could be the culprit. I’ve been feeding him a forage based diet for a long time now with a ration balancer as he does seem to need quite a bit of protein to maintain good weight, feet, coat, etc. I’m wondering now if the abundance of processed soy products in his diet have interfered with his horomones via the isoflavones, as well as his ability to digest and utilize nutreints in his diet via the phytic (?) acid. I’ve been reading articles for days trying to figure out what step is next.
I told my hubby I’m changing feeds yet again and he just said what this time. He nearly fell out of his chair when I told him I want him to special mill me a feed. I want to go back to oats (but they have to be ground because 2 of my horses require a mash, and the 3rd prefers it) and try using a soy-free milk replacer powder (whey based) to get the protein and vitamins/minerals balanced out. And I want him to grind it all up and put it in a bag for me so I don’t have to mix it myself. I don’t ask for much, do I? 
I have a horse that cannot eat processed grains due to allergies. We have narrowed it down to either soy or wheat.
He gets haycubes, oil and ricebran, along with his multivitamins. He is gainging weight nicely and has a good coat. He was grouchy and uncomfortable on processed grain and is much happier now.
We had him on oats until I found out about the ricebran. He gained weight with them but got very energetic on them. He is much better with the ricebran.
Well, me, of course 
Alfalfa is my #1 answer for how to replace protein. Alfalfa pellets are convenient and cheapish. But… read on…
First case that made me aware of soy as an issue: 9yo APHA broodie with horrible hives. She was miserable, and pregnant or lactating, so no fancy Rx histamine stuff. Somehow, someone figured out to go back to hay & oats, and voila she cleared up immediately. She kept plenty well on alfalfa mix-hay and oats and a soy-free vit/min for the area. She was not large, and was an easy keeper, even pg or lactating. Protein wasn’t an issue for her at the time, though in retrospect, her topline could have been much better, but she was a career broodie, so you sort of chalk that up…
#2: Norwegian Fjord Gelding. “Sweet Itch” so bad in the summer he’d rub himself raw. Topicals and internal Rx just not working. With mare #1 in mind, says me, “Hay, let’s get him off the (horrible) sweet feed (with soy) and see what happens.” Same as #1, cleared up beautifully, now is a happy camper in summer. As a mature airfern gelding, NO protein issues that oats and hay can’t satisfy. Again, a soy-free mineral supp for the area (we are severely selenium deficient.)
FFWD to #5, the Problem Child. Mature breeding stallion in 2nd/3rd level dressage work. CANNOT have alfalfa. Removed soy 3 years ago as the ‘last straw’ in an almost 3 year battle with chronic ‘scratches’ and cellulitus that defied every topical, internal & external Rx etc. I don’t know why I didn’t try it sooner… :sigh:
He did fine for quite some time on Beet Pulp, Whole Oats or rolled barley or a mix of the two, and vits/mins. Then the following summer the work ramped up. I found him ‘hitting the wall’ at the same time in every ride, rather than improving. I am super careful not to do the same type of work daily, and do conditioning sets similar to eventers or endurance riders… so it wasn’t ringsour etc. He just didn’t have any “bottom.”
Melyni at LinPro patiently worked with me quite a bit. I was feeding LinPro at it’s highest level, Whole Oats, BOSS, Flax and Beep. He was better. Over the next winter I added Rice Bran, which helped add a little more weight without hot. Still, topline seemed lacking. For a working/breeding stallion, it just nagged at me that there wasn’t enough protein… I couldn’t really up the oats if I valued my health, however… :uhoh: :lol:
Cherry, from here, had posted many times about Lysine. I did some research. Asked a couple questions, and ordered. When it arrived, it says right on the label, “Useful for horses who diets don’t include alfalfa or soy.”
And it has made the most dramatic difference. The combo of rice bran, flax, BOSS, Whole Oats and Beep… the Lysine seemed to be the missing link. He put on about 250lbs, almost entirely in topline and haunch. Fabulous muscling. Outgrew yet another saddle (at age 13! 
) The work really stepped up. Last fall he was the fittest and strongest he’s ever been. We were playing with 1/4 pirouettes and really doing a ton of work, lots of sit and collection and work and fun.
I’m now having second thoughts about Flax as a routine feed. It has therapeutic benefits, to be sure, but also has some counter indications on a long term basis. He’s on Beep, Oats, Lysine and vits/mins.
The rest of the herd–all growing or pg or lactating–get an additional 3-5lbs of alfalfa pellets a day, plus the same Beep, Oats, Lysine and vits/mins.
I’m considering Uckele’s Tri-Amino, but waiting for my hay analysis first. Might end up being cheaper just having them do a custom mix for me. We’ll see.
Hope that novel helps.
He’s since been out of work for the majority of this year… due to ME, not him. I’ve kept
Hey, PintoPiaffe, are you feeding the amino acids at the recommended level on the pot, or have you increased it?
Oh, and yes, I have removed all soy from my horse’s diet. Remember that you have to include such things as horse cookies and you must check the base for any supplements you feed if you are removing it because of an allergy or sensitivity issue.
For the soy-free-'falf free stallion I’m doing a double dose.
Everyone else gets a single dose, regardless of age/size/etc.
<shrugs> not really scientific… I’m really interested to see how my hay comes out this year–I haven’t done it in about 5 years now. Same local hay, different farmer, he’s pretty high-tech.
Amino Acids
PLEASE, folks-beware of supplementing single amino acids! They are NOT innocuous and giving too much lysine (or any other single amino acid!) will interfere with absorption of other amino acids and cause major muscle/protein metabolism problems! I know of one experienced, respected endurance rider who found out the hard way-feeding 2 to 3x the recommended amount of lysine resulted in SEVERE tying up problems!
It would be lovely if we knew as much about horse’s amino acid requirements as they do about pigs and chickens Which, by the way, will never happen since horses have so many different demands put on them whereas all the pigs and chickens have to do is grow meat! But we don’t-and mucking about trying to extrapolate from other species and supplementing micros when we really don’t even know macros will get you into trouble (not to mention the poor house). There are many out there with stuff to sell that would like to think they have the answers but I prefer scientific evidence based decisions.
Yes, Soy protein can be allergenic-but that is not a reason to pull all horses off it! It IS a well balanced, excellent quality source of protein for most horses, based on the SCIENTIFIC evidence!
Dr. Ralston,
Can you link us or guide us to any studies on the possible effects of soy on horses? I am particularly interested in thyroid effects as well as isoflavones and phytoestrogens. So far I have not turned up anything on google or net searches…lots on people and other species but very little seems to be out there specific to horses. Thanks.
Dr. Ralston, thanks for the PSA regarding lysine. I also find it frustrating that there seems to be so little research out there regarding the protein requirements of horses, and what there is often seems to be funded by a feed company (not necessary bad, but you have to beware of ulterior motives). I have read 2 articles recently on the importance of threonine and methionine in early equine development that hopefully will lead to further research.
Are you personally aware of any research done on the use of whey protein in an equine diet?
Thanks for the heads-up Sarah! That’s why I asked…
And I pulled this particular horse of soy because he colics on it. The rest of my herd eat it and have eaten in for years quite happily.
But it really IS quite a problem to find a decent feed that isn’t soy based for those horses that do have an issue.
I’m going to tell Mr. MO to hurry up and mill my mixture! He can market it as a soy-free feed for those who have equines with soy allergy/sensitivity. If we hurry we can get ahead of the big feed companies on this and maybe turn a profit!
[QUOTE=Daydream Believer;3497362]
Dr. Ralston,
Can you link us or guide us to any studies on the possible effects of soy on horses? I am particularly interested in thyroid effects as well as isoflavones and phytoestrogens. So far I have not turned up anything on google or net searches…lots on people and other species but very little seems to be out there specific to horses. Thanks.[/QUOTE]
There is not-no one funds horse research on this type of topic! Plus it has been used with good results for overt 30 years…Why waste money looking for gremlins? Even the work in other species documenting “effects” (Ie: mice, rats, pigs) were using WAY higher intakes than we would even consider in horses (Ie: 7 lbs of PURE soy protein a day!).
[QUOTE=meaty ogre;3497406]
I have read 2 articles recently on the importance of threonine and methionine in early equine development that hopefully will lead to further research.
Are you personally aware of any research done on the use of whey protein in an equine diet?[/QUOTE]
The studies on Methionine and Threonine were good ones BUT note that they were using grass hay as a base for weanlings!! Well documented not to be adequate! I do not know of any studies of Whey for anything but foal milk replacer. With alfalfa and Soy proteins being so good for weaned horses why go to the expense of whey?
If you all have so much extra money to spend on supplements -donate it to research (done by equine nutritionists in Animal Science since there are NONE that I know of currently in any vet school who specialize in horses, instead of surgeons, general practice vets, or researchers that own feed/supplement companies!) so we can catch up with knowledge in other species rather than contributing to really expensive urine, vet bills and envirtonmental pollution due to excretion of all the excesses being fed!
Thanks for the answer. I was afraid you’d say that no horse specific studies exist. :no:
So it’s a waste of money “hunting for gremlins” in doing studies that will show if soy can have a negative effect on horses? That just sounds very cavalier to me. Now I am more convinced than before to avoid feed with soy in it. 
Sorry if you meant to make me feel better about soy based feeds, you failed.
Dr. Ralston was stating that the studies on other species used far greater amounts of soy than we would ever feed a horse. She was not trying to sway you into feeling better about soy feed.
We get it. You hate soy. Your herd has an issue with soy products.Your herd is not like most horses. It is great that you brought this subject up, because there ARE horses with soy issues, whether it is a true typical allergic reaction or a digestive allergy.There are so many feedstuffs that horses can be allergic to it is amazing. I almost lost my horse to a severe corn allergy.
There are also different parts of the soy plant that are used.There is also the GMO issue, in all plants, and grass seed- check into that.
You stated yourself that you feed your boarders Strategy. I do believe that it contains soy products.17 of the horses on your property were OK-Roughly 2/3 of them.
I am really sorry for your herd’s issues, and I am extremely sorry that Lodi is going through such a horrible time. I can’t imagine the pain she is in.
You need to be spending your energy on helping your horses get better. I would be going CRAZY trying to find out what the problem was.
If a company wanted to come test & find out if my water or grass was the culprit, by God, I would have them there in a heartbeat. Look up what too much fluoride can do. You might think twice about it.Especially if it were on their dime.
BTW-I would already have had my grass & soil tested, with even one unexplained laminitic horse. THOSE are cheap tests compared to the vet bills.
You know, soybeans don’t hold a monopoly on phytoestrogens. Phytoestrogens are found in many other feeds commonly fed to horses, particularly flax (even higher in phytoestrogen than soy), but also oats, barley and alfalfa.
I’m sure some horses are allergic or sensitive to soy. But I’m more inclined to think there’s something about the content of the processed feeds, and not necessarily just the soy products they contain, that some horses have trouble with. Switching to whole grains might be the key there?
As always, everything in moderation.
ridenslide…I KNOW what the problem is…and if I ask for your advice, I’ll let you know.
You are a feed dealer aren’t you? Let’s make sure everyone here knows your “interest” in the topic. Got to keep people happy and buying horse feed. Don’t worry…I seriously doubt people are going to quit based on a few discussions here on this forum.
On soy…I am sure dismayed that no one has ever tested it specifically on horses. Let’s let feed companies use our horses as guinea pigs…you gotta love it…and then blame any negative problems on grass, water or hay…what a racket. You got to love the feed industry…a by product industry mostly…if people think their horses are eating top quality wholesome ingredients…think twice…and now we know some of the ingredients have not even been thoroughly tested…just assumed “safe.”
Yes my herd had issues and yes I believe it was the soy. No I don’t think it an “allergy” either. From the shocking number of replies and emails I have gotten, I hardly think my experience was unique either.
I asked Dr. Ralston for her “scientific proof” as she mentioned earlier about the safety of soy and then found out there is none specifically for horses. Draw your own conclusions.
Yes, Strategy has soy but not as the primary and main ingredient. It’s a wee bit different from the RB I had trouble with if you hadn’t noticed.
Larkspur…there is a lot more than phytoestrogens that are “wrong” with soy. Do some research on it.
I wish I did have money to fund equine nutritional research, but even if I did, in this economy with people barely scraping by, I’d probably still be sending it to the shelters and food banks!
I can sit on google scholar all day long and find articles confirming both the detrimental and beneficial effects of soy. All I’ve learned is that soy both protects from heart disease and cancer and increases heart disease and cancer. Apparently more research is needed!
I’m not falling into the trap of “oh, the Asian countries consume lots of soy and they’re healthy.” They also consume a heavily starch-based diet which is naturally lower in fat than the american diet and they don’t eat red meat, and lfew animal proteins. They’re also genetically different. But I’m sure it’s the soy. I urge you all to use your “scientific” part of your brain when these things come out!
I hope that people will learn to use moderation in equine diets. For some reason it seems that in the horseworld, people grab onto something and run with it. When the research about fats in the diet came out, people started pumping their horses full of it. Most people couldn’t tell you what the omega3/6 balance should be or why additional vitamin e would be necessary. Everything now is low starch, gotta worry about NSC and stuff them with fiber. The pendulum keeps on swinging and new fads are popping up all the time.
I’m not trying to start a fad. I’ve got a 24 year old paint with hives and itchies that I just can’t get 100% under control (yes I read the onchocerca thread!). Hay is soaked, he’s not stalled and his diet is balanced. I’ve got a 17 year old TB with the worst mood swings and hypersensitivity (observed at my own farm and several others where he has been sent for training). I’ve also got a 38 year old mini who is being tested for pituitary problems.
I don’t have to buy my feed as most know, but if I was, what I’m using is over $20/bag. My husband can mill me 10 bags of the soy-free diet I want to try for less than $20/bag. That will give me 10 bags to try on my herd and see if there are any changes. Specifically I’ll be looking for less reactivity and activity in the TB (fat chance), less itchiness and hives in the paint, and decreased lethargy and haircoat in the mini. I don’t know if it will work or not but there’s one way to find out. If taking the soy out doesn’t work, I’ll be looking for something else to try.
Oh, and I’m still interested in hearing from those who actually have taken soy out of their horses’ diet and the changes they have observed. Thanks to those who already did!
