I’ll start with those three questions :).
not an expert but Google appears to be…without title it must be returned to BLM because without a title it is still property of the US Gov.
If the mustang is not titled, it must be returned to the BLM
Interesting.
Years ago, you would get ownership after one year.
You could not sell or give feral horses away during that year.
Guess that to prove that he is yours now you need that title?
That would apply only to those branded, otherwise their identity is not proven as an BLM horse.
OP, why not ask the BLM directly?
BUT, here’s the thing. If the current owner doesn’t have the title, that doesn’t necessarily mean that the horse is NOT titled. It may be that she is, indeed, titled, but that the paperwork is with an old owner. How does a sale proceed in that case?
without Title the horse belongs to the US Government… that is what the BLM says. Period.
The current holder needs to contact the BLM for the paperwork… Which would have been sent them after the One Year period of possession…after completing the paperwork, returning to the BLM they would send a Title to them
2. HOW DO YOU KNOW IF A MUSTANG IS TITLED?
There are three ways to know if a mustang is Titled. [LIST=1]
Yeah, clanter, that’s exactly what I just did. I called the local BLM office and sent a picture of the brand (which the owner sent me). They said the horse is quite possibly titled, but this could be the second or third owner, and the paperwork just didn’t follow the horse. They said that’s common. They’re looking up the brand and (hopefully) will get back to me next week. So we shall see.
True enough, but the horse can be titled and the person currently in possession of the horse doesn’t have it. The title paper gets lost, just like registration papers on purebred horses. Horses live a long time, many of them change hands more than once, people move and lose stuff, homes burn down with all the paperwork in them, etc. If the horse has been previously titled, it can be sold by whoever is in legal possession of it (by the same criteria as anybody has legal possession of any other horse), to anybody who is legally able to purchase a horse (e.g. typically not a minor since minors cannot sign contracts). Including into the slaughter line. If the BLM finds out about the slaughter thing, the person selling is not going to be able to adopt or buy a Sale Authority mustang directly from the BLM, but as far as I know there are no other consequences.
Once you verify a horse is titled (using the methodology outlined by Clanter), you can buy and sell a mustang as you would any other horse, with whichever verbal agreement/handshake, bill of sale, lease-to-own contract, auction, what have you that you would use for any other critter on four hooves.
If the horse is NOT titled, and still owned by the government, changing possession of the horse can still take place via “reassignment”. As far as I know this process works the same regardless of whether the original adopter never followed through to get title (and dropped off the earth so BLM couldn’t follow up, ) it’s a Trainer Incentive Program horse, a Youth EMM competitor that is not planning on keeping their assignment, someone adopted and then fell on hard times or was overwhelmed by the horse, whatever. Person A has an untitled mustang that Person B wants. Person B has to apply to the BLM the same way they would if they were adopting direct, and be approved. Person B pays the BLM a “reassignment fee” (which I think is the same as the adoption fee), and pays Person A any training fees that have been mutually agreed upon. The BLM gives Person B all the same paperwork and such they would have if they had adopted direct. I’m not sure if Person B has to have possession of the horse for the full year before they can apply for title, like they would if they had adopted, or if they just need to “finish out” the year since the first adopter took on the horse. I suspect the former. The person who wants to reassign also is not obligated to hand the horse over to the first yutz that turns up on their doorstep with approved adoption paperwork. They get to decide, just as they would if they were selling a horse of any kind they owned outright.
On my Mustang groups there are situations from time to time where untitled horses kinda “show up” on the market (through rescue, say). The BLM has seemed more than happy to facilitate getting these horses into good hands without throwing up a bunch of unnecessary barriers or making somebody return the horse to a BLM holding facility or what have you. I don’t know all the details but presumably it’s some manifestation of the reassignment process. Even in situations where untitled BLM horses have had to be removed, they seem to do their best to NOT take the horses back into the holding facilities, but get them into the hands of known members of the mustang community that are willing to take them on as rescues. The trainer who brought my my boy for the EMM, for example, has taken in three such rescue-type cases in the last couple years, re-habbed and re-homed them.
Toblersmom, you are the bomb. This is exactly what I wanted to know! So even if the current “owner” has no paperwork whatsoever, and the horse still technically belongs to the BLM, I still have a path to owning it (or adopting it) myself. I was afraid I was going to have to just walk away. It’s a really cool horse. I don’t want to walk away!
Definitely you should be able to find a way. And if it’s a reassignment situation where you need to get approval, and the horse is tamed/trained, you don’t need to have the six foot fences, stock trailer, etc. the application talks about. They still don’t want to see electric-tape only or barbed wire fences, and they may still want five-foot fencing depending on just how tamed/trained the horse is, but they have a lot of leeway. The BLM really would rather not have a horse come back to eating on the government’s dime. They really would rather bad things not happen to them, either, so transferring the adoption paperwork to a new reputable person, or giving the buyer of a titled horse as much information as they can, is in their best interest.
This horse is green under saddle, but definitely tame. It’s handled and ridden by kids. I have no experience with these horses, as I’m from a showjumper background. But I board at a very professional h/j show barn with very satisfactory facilities…IMO at least. We definitely don’t have electric-tape or barbed wire fences! But are all the fences 5’? No, they are not.
I guess we shall see.
Now there’s a new question. If the “owner” doesn’t actually own this horse, how much should I be willing to pay for it? She’s had it a year, and no doubt she’s put some solid ground work in. But it’s still really green. I don’t really expect an answer to this question, because I know it all depends. I’m just thinking out loud I guess.
I have three BLM mustangs and two burros.
I adopted two from the BLM directly: $125 and after a year I had to apply for a title (having a professional - vet/farrier/etc sign off that he was in good health). I now have their titles and they are mine to do with what I see fit.
I purchased one with a title in hand. He is mine to do with what I wish.
I purchased one with no title in hand, but contacted the BLM and asked if he WAS titled. He was, so they sent me a letter stating that he is titled, but did not re-issue the title paperwork. The letter serves as the identification that he is mine to do with what I see fit. Technically, you should have the title with them, but they are often lost. As long as the animal was titled at some point, the BLM is no longer their “owner.”
I adopted one while he was still under BLM ownership: I had to apply for him through the BLM and pay the adoption fee to the BLM. After a year from when he was taken from the pens, I applied for his title and now he’s mine.
That pretty much covers most normal situations when acquiring a BLM animal. Does that help?
Yes, thank you so much! What are they like to work with? This one is already “gentled,” but still green under saddle.
Kinda posted without reading what @Toblersmom wrote, so you can just go right ahead and ignore my last post. 
Technically, you should only have to pay the $125 adoption fee to the BLM if the “owner” doesn’t outright own the horse. There are some new guidelines about charging a training fee for TIP horses and others, but the general rule of thumb is that if the BLM still owns the animal, you only have to pay their going rate.
People are getting better about not attaching so much stigma to mustangs, but unless you’re a BNT, it seems they don’t sell for much comparatively. For reference (I’m not opposed to sharing price info, so sorry to anyone that offends), I paid $3.5k for a mustang who is trained out his ears, came in second in a makeover event, but had been passed around a bit after his competition. He’s about 16h and looks like a TB (honest to God, y’all). He can jump the moon, but does just fine in my fences that are 4 board or wire and sight board ~4.5 feet tall. Once they’ve been “tame” for a while, they’re the same with regards to fences as any other domestic - some will challenge the fences and some won’t. None of mine have ever chosen to leave the good feed they get. :lol:
If it checks all your boxes aside from being a mustang, I would consider pricing similar to a grade horse for what it is - just know that some people will pass because it’s got a brand. Some people won’t even know or care that it’s a mustang and some will pretty much only consider a mustang.
Once they’re domesticated, I would say they’ve very similar. They all have different personalities. All three of mine are so very different from each other. One great thing I have found is that they know how to communicate pretty well with other horses, so turning out in a group seems to go pretty well.
I will say that all of mine have grown/filled out until they were about 7-8, but were mentally very mature all along.
If you have the brand #, you can look up the state they’re from on the BLM site (I can probably PM the page), but there’s no more technical data available without talking to the BLM directly or seeing the BLM papers. There are HMAs (what area they are specifically from) that mustang people like more than others and general characteristics based on what was turned loose in different areas. And depending on when they were rounded up, there may even be pics of them in the wild!
I did decode the brand. Looks like she’s from New Mexico somewhere.
Anyway, the “owner” just called me. She doesn’t have the title. Bought her off someone on Facebook. She has no idea whether the horse is titled or not, but had no objection to me calling the BLM (which is good, because I already did call!). Unfortunately, my experience with gov’t agencies is that they’ll call me back the 20th of Never.
Man, this is a learning curve…
You may already have found this:
https://www.blm.gov/programs/wild-ho…rea/new-mexico
Seems that in NM there are only two HMAs, so it should be easy to determine, along with the brand, who your horse is?
Feral horses are really like any other domestic horses, as they are domestic horses, carry the same genes.
Any differences may be in how they were raised up to capture.
Those may be physical, depending on how they fared growing up and mentally what they have learned of the world around them and how they cope with it.
That does give them some traits horses raised in domesticity may lack.
As a teenager we were starting feral horses of all kinds and practically every one made in short time perfectly nice, sweet horses to live with, handle and ride.
The very rare exception was no more than you may find with the rare domestic horse that is hard to handle.
If you like the horse, don’t let it stop you that he was raised feral and is green.
I bet horse will be fun to work with and bring further along.
VERY IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE STATE IN THE BRAND IS THE STATE OF PROCESSING, NOT NECESSARILY CAPTURE/ORIGIN!!! (OK, I guess it’s only important if you really, really care what state the horse was gathered in, which honestly isn’t as much of a Big Deal as some make it out to be. Look at the horse in front of you and appreciate him for what he is, not where he’s from.) My boy was from the Beatty’s Butte HMA in Oregon. For whatever reason he and all the other horses from that gather were processed in Nevada rather than Oregon (my understanding is that the Burns facility isn’t really set up to handle a lot of horses all at once and this was an unusually large gather for the region?) His freeze mark designation is “62” which is a Nevada code, but he’s NOT from one of the Nevada HMAs.
Regarding how they are, mostly just like any other grade horse. We had one in the lesson program at my college and he was a real pistol, could game one day, flat the next and jump the day after that. My instructor said that mustangs weren’t usually that athletic, but they can be very canny as they have descended from horses that had to fend for themselves.
Hmm…this is fairly opposite of what I have learned from others. Most people say they are pretty darn athletic. I mean…they survive by running for their lives…
Regarding what they are like to work with, they are all over the map because there’s such a variety of genetic background, experiences in the wild and in holding, skill levels and effort put in to any training received thus far, etc. To put things in perspective, the trainer that had my guy for the EMM was riding him in three days (and probably could have gotten on earlier but she didn’t want to rush him). The draw she picked up for the Mustang Magic that year she wound up returning to go to long-term holding, as it was her opinion (as somebody who trains Mustangs and only Mustangs, and has for years) that the horse injuring somebody was a matter of “when” rather than “if.” Contrary to ReSomething’s experience with the mustang school horse that was a “pistol”, I think my guy’s dream job would be a longe-line walk-trot schoolie. No real work, lots of little kid love, baths, braiding, getting dressed up in wacky costumes. He’s super willing to please and once I made it clear to him what sort of response I expect from driving aids he’ll move out fine, but he’s normally super-chill and the idea of him doing gaming is pretty laughable. Mine’s also a far cry from the “one person horse” myth you sometimes hear about mustangs. I toyed with the idea of naming him “Lyle” because he reminds me of the Lyle Lovett song, “I Love Everybody (Especially You).”
Regarding pricing, the value really should be the same as for any other grade horse that is otherwise similar in terms of age, conformation, attitude/aptitude, training, show record, etc. I confess I did a different mental exercise when I set my top limit for the bid when I got mine. I figured if I had picked out a similar horse from the corrals or had a similar unhandled non-mustang come my way for free or nearly free, I would have had to pay thousands in training, transportation, and boarding fees to get the level of training and trail/show exposure he got, with no guarantees the horse would shape up nicely. If I had purchased a cheap whatever horse from CL priced at just above meat money, I could add another thousand or so as a purchase price. So I decided that I liked THAT particular horse about $5k worth, and wound up being lucky and winning the bid at $3k. I’m realistic, though, I have no illusions that I would be able to turn around and sell him for $5k, maybe not even $3k given that we haven’t done much with ourselves in the past two years but poke around and have fun. If I made more of a concentrated effort to get him out to shows so he had a record, even just being a regular at schooling shows so people in the potential market got to “know” him as the cool little dude he is, I probably could, though.
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