There are some TB’s out there doing the GP’s and doing very well at various levels ( I know you were talking about GP’s and int’l level it seems), but the majority are European Types and Breeds because they are bred to be sport horses and are trained to be so from the start. As people have pointed out there is a varying amount of TB blood in different WB types. The majority, not all , of TB’s used in sport horse events here in the states come from the racetrack OTTB’s and they may have heart and athletic gifts but are bred to run and race and start so at a young age…then after that career are rehomed/retrained to do something else. TB’s are amazing jumpers and are very successful, but as people have pointed out the different trends over the years in their breeding, to fit their intended purspose as race horses, is a different path than the “WB’s” have been on in those same years.
I think the observations on HOW TBs are being bred currently in the US explains a lot about what horses are in the show jumping ring. If a horse is not purpose bred, only a rare individual is likely to be born with the attributes needed for success at the upper levels of show jumping. It takes a lot of time and money to produce a young horse, so those that are investing in the production of a young horse are very likely to focus on breeding lines likely to produce what they need.
The horse shows --as the COTH articles I linked to point out-- cater to “where the money is” and that has skewed the horse market as well as the show ring, and the production of horses.
It is not so simple an answer as TBs lack an innate ability to jump as well as a WB. It is about selective breeding, and the market forces on what horses are produced.
[QUOTE=LowerSaxony_Jumper;7817351]
If your horse comes from EU territorial it needs to have a passport! You are not even allowed to ship your horse without a passport by German law. if your horse has no brand it needs to get a mircoship.[/QUOTE]
Actually, over here in the states, no they don’t need those things. Once they clear quarantine, some keep it, some don’t and others lose track of it.
There is no all encompassing US federal law requiring owners to use the registered name or even keep the EU passport and there is no USA govt issued paperwork requirement traveling with the horse at all times here. No brand or microchip requirement either. We just don’t do that over here, proof of ownership and health certificate, sometimes vaccination records, is about all you need to ship anywhere in the states.
USEF is moving towards microchipping but is just basically a sports club one has to join if one wants to compete at USEF rated shows, they are not an enforcement agency or part of any level of government. Owners can determine what name to record and microchip the horse under, no requirement to keep the name they were imported under.
[QUOTE=LowerSaxony_Jumper;7817351]
If your horse comes from EU territorial it needs to have a passport! You are not even allowed to ship your horse without a passport by German law. if your horse has no brand it needs to get a mircoship.[/QUOTE]
The point that I was trying to make is that often once a horse clears quarantine here, so many of the passports “disappear” that a person trying to find a horse based on horses they see and like is SOL because they cannot find the actual breeding.
Look at the COTH preview issue on Rolex. Almost all the horses have breeding shown. Then look at the issue for the major USEF hunter derby. “Warmblood of unknown breeding” is the preferred lineage. Sure, it’s harder to pass off that 8 YO who has done the 120’s in Europe as a 5 YO pre-green if you have no passport, but I think that there is a definite benefit for the honest folk to know how their fancy imported warmbloods are bred.
http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/...r-horse-supply
This is a very interesting article. In it George Morris gives us his opinion of this topic…TB vs WB in the jumper division. Thank you Sunflower! I raise a question no one addressed…is it possible that the WB interests in this country are influential in keeping courses that favor the WBs. When I think of the money spent on these horses it boggles my mind.
[QUOTE=trafalgar;7817792]
http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/...r-horse-supply
This is a very interesting article. In it George Morris gives us his opinion of this topic…TB vs WB in the jumper division. Thank you Sunflower! I raise a question no one addressed…is it possible that the WB interests in this country are influential in keeping courses that favor the WBs. When I think of the money spent on these horses it boggles my mind.[/QUOTE]
Um, I’ll address it. No. There aren’t enough breeders and most are very small operations, they have little clout outside of Breeding classes. We have 2 or 3 mega show management companies that run a large percentage of our Open shows and all of the really important ones with the FEI classes and 1.5-1.6m GPs. Those management companies hire the course designers and are more interested in making money (as a business that’s no surprise) then influencing breed choice of a very small percentage of exhibitors. They make more money off lower level classes anyway.
It may be the preference for the WB and their popularity has had some influence just because of sheer numbers but it’s more just space issues and the evolution of the sport. IMO anyway. Might also be trying to create more dramatic efforts and visual pop in this time of extreme sports to put butts in the seats.
[QUOTE=trafalgar;7817792]
http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/...r-horse-supply
This is a very interesting article. In it George Morris gives us his opinion of this topic…TB vs WB in the jumper division. Thank you Sunflower! I raise a question no one addressed…is it possible that the WB interests in this country are influential in keeping courses that favor the WBs. When I think of the money spent on these horses it boggles my mind.[/QUOTE]
The link doesn’t work. But, if TB’s were more successful in the jumper ring more people would use them. It’s all about how the horse performs in the jumper ring. I think what Beezie and JMS did in 2012 speaks to how generically TB’s under perform in the jumper ring. The basically said “send us a TB that you think would make a good jumper and we will see if it can be” The premise of this is that it is very difficult (not impossible) to find a TB capable.
They were primarily looking for American bred horses but if you read the statements it’s clear they were hoping they could find a TB.
When it comes down to it, the point made on registry vs. breed is very true.
I actually wouldn’t be surprised if eventually non-purebred quarter horses take over the reining/working cow horse type competitions outside of breed shows, as attributes of horses such as the Iberian breeds are blended in to enhance the horses. I absolutely love quarter horses and think they’re the best breed for cow work, but think that a purpose bred registry which allows crossing in outside blood for specific attributes will always allow for more improvement than keeping a closed book. Therefore, yes, some purebred TBs can jump that way, but horses specifically purpose bred with crosses of the horses with the desired traits, regardless of breed, are more likely to do the job.
For anything but GP jumpers, international dressage, etc., I think you’re just as good going with a TB as anything else - it’s only at the extremes which are already meant for the best of the best where I think you’re really as limited, but at lower levels it just depends on individuals and how hard the rider works/how well/etc. plus natural talent of a specific individual. That said, I have both a TB and a WB dressage horse - and it sure is nice to ride a horse who was born with a piaffe and half pass.
