One more trainer’s thought’s and then we will have agree to disagree, with you thinking that futurities don’t perpetuate the pushing of young horses, with a negative consequences, while I can’t ignore evidence to the contrary.
http://todayshorse.com/why-people-start-horses-too-hard-too-young/
Just to clarify, there is no such thing as a 2 year old reining futurity. We do however show our horses in futurities their 3 year old year. What many of you fail to realize is that every 3 year old in training isn’t necessarily training for THE futurity in Oklahoma in November. In fact, very few end up there.
We start all of our horses as long yearlings, get them civilized, they do about 20 minutes of round pen work and then once they can walk and trot for 10 minutes in the pen, we kick them back out until May or so of their two year old year. We also take into account the individual maturity of each horse.
Now, towards the beginning of their three year old year we are beginning to make assessments about the stage of each ones training and develop a strategy for the year. Some will show at a few small local futurities, some will lope through while others will be pushed a little more. Some won’t show their three year old year at all, and then that one in a million horse we will take to the nrha futurity in Oklahoma. That’s how each year of horses work for us. If a horse isn’t telling is he’s ready for more, we won’t push them. After the last futurity (normally the end of October) they get kicked out again for about 3 months and just now we will begin to ride them again.
We do not have a horse on the farm that’s retired because we “crippled” it. Our junior stallion is about to start his 8th consecutive year of showing, the other his 7th year and yet another in his 16th year of showing. They are all sound and happy boys who are properly maintained. I think that says something about their breeding, good minds and our training program.
I’m not saying that there aren’t trainers who just burn them up (specifically trainers that are only level 4 riders who need that open horse and can’t be bothered by small futurities, it’s the big one or nothing) but just keep in mind that not every trainer that starts their horses young recklessly does so at the expense of that horses life.
I have three horses; a QH, a TB and a WB. I’ve owned all of them since they were at least 1 yo so have/will have them all broke to ride.
I rode the QH in the spring of his 2yo year and showed him that summer under saddle in AQHA and 4H events. His 3yo year he went into training to be a reiner and reined for about 5 years. He’s 22 now and I foxhunt on him. He’s never been lame other than some weird bump on his knee that just looks bad and prevented him from doing nice spins thus ending his reining career.
I had the TB broke to ride at the end of his 3yo year. I took him to a couple small local shows his 4yo year, but didn’t do much with him until he was 5 or 6. He’s 8 now. Sound and showing in the hunter classes. It took him much longer to mature mentally than the QH so I took things much more slowly with him.
The WB (technically she is 1/2 TB, but is registered as a WB) is 3 and I won’t have her broke to ride until the end of her 4yo year. I’m breeding her this spring. She seems a little further along at 3 than my TB was at the same age, but definitely not as mature as my QH was at 3.
In my experience the QHs can take the push mentally and physically to start riding at 2 much better than TBs and WBs. They are also physically mature sooner. My parents raised QHs and I don’t recall any of them gaining much height after their 3yo year, where as my TB grew until he was 6. My TB is mentally at 8 where my QH was at 3. There are, of course, exceptions. A lot of the QHs bred to do the English classes are 3/4 TB these days so will mature more like the TB than a “normal” QH.
I try to ascertain where each horse is mentally and physically and go from there with their training. I’m in no hurry and I want them to tell me when they are ready to get pushed harder. It’s fun and challenging and most often also rewarding!
[QUOTE=2enduraceriders;7947600]
… Of course there are horses that do not follow the “norm”. Even when you have a 80% navicular rate that still leaves 20 out of every 100 horses sound.
…[/QUOTE]
Can you provide some references where it shows that 80% navicular in all QH, paints etc.
Because warmbloods mature later. And take years longer to develop those legs and joints. WBs keep growing till they are about 7 yrs of age.
Quarter horses are pretty much warmbloods, I have joked that I should market mine as ‘Texas warmblood’ and fetch more for them than they would bring as mere quarter horses.
One qh gelding I started at two eventually grew an inch at age 8, after topping off (or so we thought) at 5, but he was fine to start at two.
[QUOTE=Beverley;8019983]
Quarter horses are pretty much warmbloods, I have joked that I should market mine as ‘Texas warmblood’ and fetch more for them than they would bring as mere quarter horses.
One qh gelding I started at two eventually grew an inch at age 8, after topping off (or so we thought) at 5, but he was fine to start at two.[/QUOTE]
I bought a horse we measured with a stick at 14.3 hands as a five year old, two years later, at 7, we measured him again and he was almost 15.3 hands.
In a perfect world, I would wait until they were all four. Otherwise leave them the hell alone until then.
But then, you would have to be a hand to get it done.
Oh geeze where do it start…
First of all, there are no 2 y/o futurities. For those horses that are going into the 3 and 4 y/o futurities they are generally high dollar, show horses. Do you know what this means? When your name and income is associated with horses like these every inch of the horse is checked over by a vet to make sure they are sound and ready for competition. These aren’t backyard horses just thrown into a futurity. They are bred to mature early and physically be ready to compete. Those who aren’t are generally sold or put into a different program.
Also, blaming the training for horses not staying sound longer is ridiculous. How about blaming the breeders? The quarter horses bred for the small feet and over muscling for halter. The paints bred for the color and lethal white. Those stunning arabs passing cerebellar abiotrophy. The list goes on.
We breed these health problems.
[QUOTE=jennycash;8021000]
Oh geeze where do it start…
First of all, there are no 2 y/o futurities.[/QUOTE]
You’re joking right?
http://www.oqha.com/aaqhc/futurities/western-pleasure
http://www.oregon-qha.com/Summer+Classic/Futurity/
http://www.oqha.com/aaqhc/ticketed-events/masters-classes
http://www.equinechronicle.com/2014-tom-powers-futurity-champions/
This is just a few of them.
“Unfortunately, many performance prospects, like reiners, are started even earlier than that…as long yearlings in preparation for the 2-yr old futurities.”
Apparently you were unable to remember the beginning of the thread when this was brought up propspony.
snort I’m not the one claiming there are no 2 year old futurities. lol.
I’ll help you keep up!
[QUOTE=propspony;8021368]
snort I’m not the one claiming there are no 2 year old futurities. lol.[/QUOTE]
I think she was referring to there being no 2 year old reining futurities. Which there absolutely are not.
[QUOTE=TheHunterKid90;8022162]
I think she was referring to there being no 2 year old reining futurities. Which there absolutely are not.[/QUOTE]
Plus, cutting and reining futurities are in December of their three year old year.
You can go watch them start those colts right now.
The good prospects are ridden lightly and already are showing if they will be amenable and talented, or they will be sent on another path quickly.
I usually start mine as a late two or early three, ride them for thirty to sixty days with walk, jog, stop, turn back, then turn them out for the winter. The next year is still mostly more of the same.
They learn to work at an earlier age so it is “normal” to them. They are also smaller than a warmblood so have better use of their bodies I think. None of my horses are pushed hard at a young age. Still showing my 22 year old and winning classes with him.
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