But in North America coaches need to foot the total cost of their operation and if they are near a metro region they are paying a premium in mortgage or lease. You do not get rich charging $50 an hour for lessons here. It might be a nice supplement if you taught Saturdays and had a proper full time job. But full time trainers are not getting rich. That’s what I mean about the North American system being entirely in the private sector with participants having to bear the full cost of expenses. You don’t pass on the cost of the ice rink to the ten year olds in skating lessons or the skating instructors. The tax payers pay for it through the parks board and everyone thinks that is just lovely.
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I totally agree. Land value, taxes, insurance- not the same at all!
I maintain that Germany at the top has all the rich people, I just don’t buy the argument it’s all equal.
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Just like the taxpayers pay for public equestrian/agricultural show facilities ? Like this one ? https://www.coloradostatefair.com/p/grounds-events/325
Sorry, I did not read through this entire thread, but the first thing that came to mind when I saw this title was the fundamental difference between children in the US and children in Germany. I forget where I read the article about how the young rider program in Germany works and it was quite awhile ago, so forgive my paraphrasing. As a generality, children in the US have no independent initiative. They look to their parents and teachers to tell them what to do. Many don’t even play with their friends without an adult present no less go the barn and ride alone. In Germany, children head straight to the barn after school and work on their riding skills. Nobody has to tell them to drop their stirrups and work on their seat. They do it on their own. That are much disciplined and focused as a whole. Whether they have superior horses to learn on or not, we all know you still have to be a good rider to get the job done. I would think the Germans are years ahead in saddle time alone before the riders are even teenagers no less adults.
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Yes we do still have show facilities in places that were built primarily for the agricultural industry as a whole. And for rodeo. But the newer show venues as in Florida tend to be private owned. And IME once a state fair venue is abandoned by agriculture in an area that is urbanizing it is more like to go over to rock concerts or movie sound stage or anything other than horses.
Am following saga on fb of a horse park in Idaho getting sold off for development.
Private individuals still have to bear the total costs of ownership and training.
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Yes, the Germans sure do know what they are doing. Their unity is admirable.
Don’t blame this on the children. They neither raise themselves nor mentor themselves. It wasn’t the kids handing out the participation trophies, you know.
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I’m not “blaming” anyone. I just saying Germans are much more focused and independent by nature. Find me a kid anywhere in this country who drops their stirrups at the beginning of every ride without being asked to do so.
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Sad that trainers who belittle their clients and constantly bash their chosen home would opt for money over happiness. It must be a very unpleasant, stressful way to live
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Agree 100%. To make any money teaching, you need to be running large group lessons. Private lessons do not come close to covering overhead here, at least not in the $50-$90/lesson range.
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It would be great if those show facilities could also offer subsidized training / lessons year round, instead of sitting empty for months of the year in many cases.
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Friends were looking at setting up a nonprofit riding school in one such venue but got the brush-off from the city because they were making so much money renting it as a sound stage to the movies.
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Why are the German so successful (at dressage, important distinction!)
Because they wrote the dressage rulebook to suit the horses they bred and their own national style of riding. Why is the german training scale in the FEI handbook not the French training scale? The Germans were moderately successful at 3 day eventing, moreso when the sport was changed to suit the type of horses they rode. The English seemed to manage to influence the way eventing developed much more than the Germans did for a long time.
Why are Americans so successful (at rodeo and reining) - because they wrote the rule books to suit their style of riding and the horses they bred.
Just because kids don’t start out riding perfect dressage doesn’t mean they aren’t successful horse people. And to be honest I’d rather kiwi kids continue to have the opportunity to have a blast on their ponies racing around the farms, beaches and pony clubs with their horses not on the bit and their imperfect leg positions and their thumbs not on top or whatever than have to follow through some regimented programme to develop the perfect position on a pony that they compete in side reins in case it dares to bobble it’s head. Those that are actually interested in dressage will drift toward it over time and those that prefer the adrenalin rush of mounted games will do that instead.
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Flip Side:
WHY THE US IS BETTER AT REINING…LOL
Re: Dressage
I keep thinking “because they got a head start and they are mean”. Generalizations, perhaps, but there is a single mindedness and seriousness.
I still think the USA for only having dressage for 30? yrs facing many more obstacles than Germany is doing VERY WELL.
Let’s also consider the rich heritage of hunters and ranching/cowboys. The US has a lot to brag about, all things considered.
Also the reining horses are being imported to Germany now…
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Germany, Italy and other European countries have a well established AQHA and Reining associations. Still fairly new there, probably less than 30 years but it didn’t take long for it to become well established and they are competing here too, especially in reining. Dressage being 30 years new in the US isn’t a good reason as to why it isn’t more established.
This has nothing to do with lack of motivation (by kids or parents or adult ammies) it’s a lack of opportunity and at some point cost. It is also a lack of a good system that trains riders and trainers to meet a certain level of competence.
Also, it’s a tiny bit of how dressage is perceived here. We sort of labeled it an elite sport and it resonates as such to most. Mention you ride dressage and people assume you are a bit uppity; we haven’t made it a sport that is very welcoming to the masses.
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Not too many big name German race horses either…
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Look, I was asking if I had summarized your complaint right, not asserting that I had. Second, and aimed at everyone (and apparently, now, making the same point on my behalf): Stop looking for reasons to dislike posters. Their posting something that you don’t agree with isn’t personal, rather it’s part of adult, reasoned, back-and-forth conversation.
Not digging the ad hominem attacks and “score keeping” about COTH poster that’s being allowed by the mods here. If this place is going to be allowed to run like a meat grinder where people get to hold grudges and invite others to pile on, let me know and I’ll take my damn hand out while I still have some fingers left.
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Really? Do you think there is less slacking, on the whole, among German’s Kinder in comparison with the US’s whippersnappers? That would be impressive, but also create-able. I find that people, and children in particular, rise to meet the level of expectation you set for them. One of my favorite things about teaching 'em (and especially around horses) is that they step right up and like it when I treat them like adults, within their capacity.
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Jealousy of other riders really hasn’t ever been something I’ve experienced … until I travelled to NZ for work and happened upon a bunch of happy kids participating in races and riding into the waves on the beach in front of our meeting venue. Looked like a pretty idyllic way to grow up as an equestrian, and as I went inside to fire up my presentation slides I felt a pang of longing to be out there on horseback. I’ve never felt that when I’ve visited equestrian facilities while on work travel to Germany!
I agree that there are many ways to learn horsemanship that can serve a rider well if they later specialize in a particular discipline. I bet I’d given a choice, more kids would choose kiwi-style childhood riding even if they knew it might mean more work later to learn a special discipline. I often wish I had gotten decent dressage instruction earlier in life, but I wouldn’t trade the unsupervised equestrian escapades of my youth for regimented lessons in a German program. And crucially, I don’t think the quality/dressage-specificity of basic instruction is what’s keeping North American riders from being better at dressage. But the points that have been made about community investment in equestrian sports, dressage training access and affordability, and the relative youth of dressage communities in many parts of the world go a long way toward explaining why the Americas and Antipodes don’t match Germany for dressage rider training. As an ordinary rider who doesn’t even fantasize about riding at an elite level that makes the German system seem different and interesting, and enviably affordable, but not necessarily superior.
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Manni creates enough problems HERSELF. Look, I know at least 5 people who left because of these issues in the last 6 months.
you can take an honest look at her posts and call them ethical, nice and fair? I can’t. something is very wrong with how this is going. VERY.
i’m only here for lack of options, really. its sad.
