Why Are We Americans Not Prosecuting These Cases and Removing Ownership Permanently?

[QUOTE=Guilherme;7939241]
. You don’t put a horse down because it’s ugly or because it will need “management.” You put it down because it will live the rest of its life in unremitting pain. The probability of that with this horse is very, very high.The probability of that with this horse is very, very high.
G.[/QUOTE]

Does no one read anything anymore!!!
Good Lord, other than the bone that was removed everything is superficial on this horse. Please please enlighten me, the rescue and the veterinarians who are working on this horse where this “unremitting pain” is going to come from? I suppose the horses “feelings” are going to be destroyed because of his looks? lol
The horse is already healing well from the updates. As long as he does not get an infection the only other long term non cosmetic injury may be the site of an eye and they are doing everything to save both eyes but guaranteeing that the other has its site saved.
Again, other they you think he is going to be too ugly to live and cause onlookers pain, why put him down? Because long term the only pain this hose will have is the initial reaction by humans.

[QUOTE=2enduraceriders;7939288]
Does no one read anything anymore!!!
Good Lord, other than the bone that was removed everything is superficial on this horse. Please please enlighten me, the rescue and the veterinarians who are working on this horse where this “unremitting pain” is going to come from? I suppose the horses “feelings” are going to be destroyed because of his looks? lol
The horse is already healing well from the updates. As long as he does not get an infection the only other long term non cosmetic injury may be the site of an eye and they are doing everything to save both eyes but guaranteeing that the other has its site saved.
Again, other they you think he is going to be too ugly to live and cause onlookers pain, why put him down? Because long term the only pain this hose will have is the initial reaction by humans.[/QUOTE]

Hey, hey, so you say.

I’ve given an answer and stand by it. You don’t need to like it, however.

G.

" … Dr. Charlotte Kin walked into the barn and witnessed a horse with a lot of blood on his face, no ears and severe wounds all over. Although Rudy was in horrific condition, he neighed to her. Rudy knew he was going to receive the care he needed. He wanted to Survive! His wounds and injuries are critical and he will require a lot of extensive care, wound cleaning, bandage changes and antibiotics for an extensive amount of time. But, if Rudy is willing to fight to survive, then we will certainly fight with him and give him the second chance he deserves.

Rudy has extensive facial injuries, the most dramatic was the fact that both of his ears had been torn off, as well as, a large portion of the right side of his face. He also has corneal ulcers in both eyes and both his upper and lower right eyelids had been torn off. He has a fractured jaw and a large piece of bone was removed. He has numerous lacerations and punctures on his head. He has numerous lacerations and punctures to all of his legs including a possible septic tendon sheath. …"

First, I am going to agree with the posters who say that this horse should be put down. I actually read the description of his injuries. We aren’t talking about a horse that is going to recover to be “ugly” we are talking about a horse with extensive injuries and it isn’t fair for us to read human emotions into him while he suffers.

Second, I read some of the comments and wish I hadn’t. Apparently God was watching over this horse when He sent in the rescuers but was suspiciously out to lunch while the horse struggled in the fence for days.

If the horse is in unmanageable pain, it’s time to euth. Give him some carrots, scratch him behind his ear, speak to him softly of how brave and loved he was and how you wish you could do more, then let him go. Horses aren’t looking towards the future. They aren’t going to have regrets. Let their last interactions be kindness. It’s not fair to keep the poor beast alive to be paraded across Facebook. Prosecute the hell out of those people.

Put me into the “heartless” camp with G as well. In addition to his injuries and ailments, years of backyard “care” have likely taken a toll on his body. This isn’t about the horse, it’s about the people.

If he pulls through he’s still at risk of being adopted out to an imbecile with good intentions but little horse knowledge.

There a plenty of horses out there without several major issues that are capable of living pain free and productive lives that all this donated money could have helped instead. People disappoint me. I realize most of it is ignorance, but I’m starting to have less sympathy ignorant people, no matter how “well meaning” they may be. In order to do what is best for the animals, we have to forget about what is easiest for us. The right thing [euthanasia] is not the easy thing; it’s much easier for most to play “hero”.

I am a conservative and the first to discourage any form of government intervention, but there need to be some requirements for horse (or any large animal) ownership. I don’t care if it’s nothing more than going to a simple one-time class about basic horse care, any education is better than nothing. The ignorance from both this particular horse’s original owner and those wanting to “save” it proves that the majority of people are NOT smart enough on their own.

[QUOTE=DesignerLabel;7938825]
Ok, flame suit on here, but this is the problem I have with many rescue organizations. This poor animal has to be in agony. In my opinion, FWIW, he needs to be humanely euthanized, not saved at all costs.

Of course, I haven’t seen him in person, nor spoken with the attending veterinarian, so maybe it’s not as bad as it looks.

Doubtful, but maybe…[/QUOTE]
Donning flame suit as well, I must say I agree. they do the same thing with half dead dogs and cats and beg for money and call it saving them.
I can’t even follow some people anymore on facebook because they post these things all the time.

[QUOTE=BaroquePony;7939329]
" … Dr. Charlotte Kin walked into the barn and witnessed a horse with a lot of blood on his face, no ears and severe wounds all over. Although Rudy was in horrific condition, he neighed to her. Rudy knew he was going to receive the care he needed. He wanted to Survive! His wounds and injuries are critical and he will require a lot of extensive care, wound cleaning, bandage changes and antibiotics for an extensive amount of time. But, if Rudy is willing to fight to survive, then we will certainly fight with him and give him the second chance he deserves.

Rudy has extensive facial injuries, the most dramatic was the fact that both of his ears had been torn off, as well as, a large portion of the right side of his face. He also has corneal ulcers in both eyes and both his upper and lower right eyelids had been torn off. He has a fractured jaw and a large piece of bone was removed. He has numerous lacerations and punctures on his head. He has numerous lacerations and punctures to all of his legs including a possible septic tendon sheath. …"[/QUOTE]

I don’t know if Rudy “knew he was going to receive the care he needed” or just thought he might get food but this sounds like the scripts on those endless TV fund raising ads for pathetic animals in need by organizations that don’t run a single shelter. But with a broken jaw, missing eyelid, corneal ulcers in both eyes, numerous puncture wounds and a septic tendon sheath injury? You can’t tell me he is not in considerable pain and will continue to be. Also can’t tell me he understands if he endures the pain now, he may recover and be pain free at some future date or that many people are pulling for him. I think he just hurts with no understanding of why and faces many secondary complications like infection, colic, laminitis etc plus being in poorish, backyard condition to start with.

Joining the flame suit brigade on this one. Not about ugly, about pain and honest prognosis for complete recovery, except for the missing parts which he and his lifetime caregivers must adapt to.

Thank you, DesignerLabel, for your post. I saw this thread earlier today and my sentiments were similar to yours.

This horse must be in pain, tho hopefully managed to some extent at the moment.

Horses need ears! They move them around to listen in all directions for the predators out there (in their minds or for real). They use their ears to communicate. Ears up - “happy to see you.” Ears back - “get out of my space.”

What happens with flies, rain, snow, dust, hay bits without ears to help keep all that out?

Also seems this horse has lost sight in one eye and could lose the other. Without great hearing (no ears to funnel that sound to his brain), how vulnerable is he if he’s blind or very sight limited?

For me, the compassionate thing to do would be to humanely euthanize this horse. This is so TRAGIC. I hope the owners are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

Again for me, to use limited funds to “save” this one horse when those same funds could be used to restore many others (good food, farrier, some minor vet stuff, dedicated person to work thru horsey PTSD) … I’m not in favor. I personally wouldn’t send a dime to “save” this horse for what his life most likely will be. I do send $$ to horse / dog / cat rescues that spend it to save many.

Terribly tragic case. I hope someone makes the right choice for this poor horse.

Flame suit on and going out to take care of my own equides.

[QUOTE=CaitlinandTheBay;7939383]
If the horse is in unmanageable pain, it’s time to euth. Give him some carrots, scratch him behind his ear, speak to him softly of how brave and loved he was and how you wish you could do more, then let him go. [/QUOTE]

Except the poor thing doesn’t even have an ear to scratch behind anymore. :frowning: I couldn’t even open the link–just reading about it was horrific enough. From the description of his injuries, it certainly does seem like this poor guy needs to be released from his pain and suffering.

I have a different take on it. As per the publicity this case has already received, this horse is now a “Poster Boy” for exactly the outcome everyone wants–very vigorous prosecution of cases of neglect and abuse such as this one! His value on Facebook is to be used as an egregious example of HOW LACKING our system is when people at the extremes of uncaring irresponsibility are allowed to continue owning animals. He is probably also State’s evidence right now in the event that prosecution goes forward, therefore they likely couldn’t euth. him if they wanted to in the absence of a catastrophic condition such as a broken leg.

As someone up-thread mentioned, a major problem is our patchwork quilt of Town, County, State and Federal regulations with regard to animal cruelty, and the spotty enforcement thereof. Perhaps a horse like this LIGHTING UP social media will finally result in a critical mass toward ZERO TOLERANCE of people who treat animals this badly. One can hope!

Meanwhile, I’m sure the vets are keeping him comfortable; his injuries as of now are not immediately life-threatening, and his care will likely be crowd-funded.

I suggest everyone stand back and look at the bigger picture before setting the manure spreader on Maximum Flail. :wink:

[QUOTE=DesignerLabel;7938825]
Ok, flame suit on here, but this is the problem I have with many rescue organizations. This poor animal has to be in agony. In my opinion, FWIW, he needs to be humanely euthanized, not saved at all costs.

Of course, I haven’t seen him in person, nor spoken with the attending veterinarian, so maybe it’s not as bad as it looks.

Doubtful, but maybe…[/QUOTE]

But… But… look at all the donations they got!
Why curtail that?

$14,975
raised of $8,000 goal
BUT there are only 28 more days to donate, so hurry!
headdeskheaddesk*

What makes you think this horse will be in unremitting pain? His injuries are certainly gruesome, and it’s terrible to think about his pain level when they were occurring. However, I don’t see anything that makes me think he won’t heal just fine. For $8,000, he better be getting some good treatment!

And I think it’s important to specify where in Europe you’re talking about when discussing policies. Europe is not a country. Denmark is very different from Russia which is very different from Greece.

[QUOTE=arapaloosa_lady;7939557]
What makes you think this horse will be in unremitting pain? His injuries are certainly gruesome, and it’s terrible to think about his pain level when they were occurring. However, I don’t see anything that makes me think he won’t heal just fine. For $8,000, he better be getting some good treatment![/QUOTE]

They’ve actually already raised almost $15,000.

My OTTB looked a MILLION times worse than this horse after his 1/2 mile ride on an F5 tornado on May 3rd, 1999. By outward appearances, he should have been euthanized. All 4 cannons completely degloved and some tendons severed (in fact he was walking on the strips of flesh that should have been on his cannons), punctures and impaled objects all over his body, sheared off 2 thoracic vertebrae, holes in his gaskin that I could put my fist through…

But he WANTED to live. He never stopped fighting, his appetite was immense, and he DRUG vet clinic staff and us out of his stall daily to go eat grass and be hand walked. Yet, he would stand like a rock without sedation or being tied or twitched for us to treat his wounds. He was at OSU vet school until Labor Day 1999.

If Rudy wants to live, let him live. If he says he’s done, then let him go. But don’t extinguish his life just because he looks bad.

Corneal ulsers are nothing to scoff at either. Some just DO NOT HEAL.

but my question is? What was with the owners thoughts. Were they just too stupid to realize he was still alive? Seriously people are stupid. Not saying they shouldn’t be prosecuted for stupidity but wow…

But you’re okay with euthanizing a horse rather than finding a way to keep a farrier safe because it falls. Alrighty.

[QUOTE=2enduraceriders;7939157]
Even if this is true are you telling me this horse needs to be killed because he MAY need some management in the future? Thank god you can’t get your hands on my white face horse. You would rather see her killed then kept out of the summer sun. And my poor warmblood appy horse needs to be put to sleep too. She is prone to clogged tear ducts so needs to wear a fly makes in the summer. I guess there is no survival chance for our insulin resistant foxtrotter even when she is the perfect horse for our visiting novice riders.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=roseymare;7939583]
Corneal ulsers are nothing to scoff at either. Some just DO NOT HEAL.

but my question is? What was with the owners thoughts. Were they just too stupid to realize he was still alive? Seriously people are stupid. Not saying they shouldn’t be prosecuted for stupidity but wow…[/QUOTE]

I suppose it’s just possible the horse became comatose and was unresponsive enough to make them believe he was dead. Assuming they looked hard. I’d bet my supper most owners have never seen a vet or butcher check a critter for brain death, which for practical purposes is pupil fixation and no corneal touch reflex. Wish you COULD prosecute “stupid,” but that would comprise 3/5 of America! :mad:

What this points up, actually, is the need for local horsemen to volunteer as livestock “first responders,” probably volunteer and preferably some with vet-tech training that someone could call when they just aren’t sure what they’re looking at and what to do about it. 'Course, around here they usually tend to call ME . . . :rolleyes: Bonus if the “responder” has heavy equipment.

[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;7939530]
I have a different take on it. As per the publicity this case has already received, this horse is now a “Poster Boy” for exactly the outcome everyone wants–very vigorous prosecution of cases of neglect and abuse such as this one! His value on Facebook is to be used as an egregious example of HOW LACKING our system is when people at the extremes of uncaring irresponsibility are allowed to continue owning animals. He is probably also State’s evidence right now in the event that prosecution goes forward, therefore they likely couldn’t euth. him if they wanted to in the absence of a catastrophic condition such as a broken leg.

As someone up-thread mentioned, a major problem is our patchwork quilt of Town, County, State and Federal regulations with regard to animal cruelty, and the spotty enforcement thereof. Perhaps a horse like this LIGHTING UP social media will finally result in a critical mass toward ZERO TOLERANCE of people who treat animals this badly. One can hope!

Meanwhile, I’m sure the vets are keeping him comfortable; his injuries as of now are not immediately life-threatening, and his care will likely be crowd-funded.

I suggest everyone stand back and look at the bigger picture before setting the manure spreader on Maximum Flail. ;)[/QUOTE]

In every state I’m aware of criminal behavior is defined by state law. Local jurisdictions can have local ordinances that regulate behaviors. In some places this includes the ability to incarcerate but sometimes not.

In short, there is no “patchwork” of law and/or regulation. It’s very clearly defined.

There may be a “patchwork” of enforcement. This is because law enforcement resources are invariably limited. The hard truth is that in the modern world there is a hierarchy of case importance, with crimes against persons being at the top of the heap and crimes against property (where animal cruelty laws live) being lower down. Some folks brindle at this but that’s the way it is, particularly once you get out of the “suburbs,”, either by moving into the “city” or outwards to the “country.”

I’m an avid opponent of “zero tolerance advocacy.” To me “zero tolerance” means “zero thought.” Anytime you relegate “thought” to a secondary position (generally somewhere behind “tear jerking”) you’re going to have bad results. This is not a defense of or advocacy for “animal cruelty.” It’s a recognition that life has all manner of twists and turns in it. We ignore that reality at our peril.

Putting a horse down because it has suffered dramatic injury and will likely suffer dramatic pain over the course of its life is an honorable thing.

There is a second, equally honorable reason, for euthanasia. That is a dollar spent on this horse, whose prospects for anything like a life of “equine quality” are poor mean that those dollars are not available to spend on horses whose injuries are less severe and have a reasonable chance to be returned to a life of decent “equine quality.”

Put another way, triage in these situations is both honorable and necessary.

I’ve no sympathy for the pond scum that created this situation. IMO they should get the bill for either euthanasia or treatment and not be “saved” that burden by the generosity of strangers. They suffer nothing for actions; they are deprived of the opportunity to learn from them. They will like likely repeat them in some fashion. An others who watch learn a dangerous lesson that goes, “we can do this, too, and we won’t suffer as generous strangers will save us, too.” Bad public policy, this.

G.

[QUOTE=Guilherme;7939241]

Death is the end of life. It is the fate of all living things. It’s a kindness to bring to animals with a fate that will be defined by their pain. It is a cruelty to deny it to such an animal because of a philosophy that says “every animal deserves a chance.”

G.[/QUOTE]

Thank you. I will NEVER understand the mentality of some posters who save for saving’s sake. If the animal is in agony, end the agony. That is part of the responsibility of animal ownership. And that is what the OP was disgusted by, in the initial post; that the owner just left the poor animal there.