Why Are We Americans Not Prosecuting These Cases and Removing Ownership Permanently?

[2enduraceriders]

update

For those who cannot get to the update here it is http://www.youcaring.com/nonprofits/rudy-s-fight-to-survive-/285664#.VKdQJGqBjuq.facebook

Updates
01/03/2015
by Natalee Cross
I can’t even begin to thank all you wonderful people for supporting Rudy. I know some don’t agree with our decision to help him and some feel he is better off being euthanized. I am sorry that you feel that way. But, Rudy is here, he has survived the worse part of this horrible ordeal. Rudy was down on the ground for 2 days, trapped in chain link fencing, being attacked by dogs, in the freezing ice and he never gave up. He fought to survive and we are fighting with him.

So, here is a quick update. We are on day 4, since Rudy was attacked. He is doing really well. He is starved for attention and can’t get enough of the loving. If you try to leave, he tries to come with you. He spent the morning itching his head all over me. We got his wounds cleaned up and they are looking great. His wounds are healing as they are supposed to. Yes, his wounds like horrible, but the wounds itself are not life threatening problems, as most of it is just skin. However, we have to watch for things like Tetanus, since we don’t know his vaccine history. So far, nothing appears to be infected and he is on strong antibiotics and pain reliever. He doesn’t act as though he is in pain. He is chewing, eating, and drinking. He can see out of both eyes. We are leaving one eye covered with antibiotic ointment in it, so that it can heal. He can hear also, as he knows when I am coming and can hear me open his stall door. So far, he isn’t showing any lameness in his legs, most of those wounds appear to be superficial. We are watching one wound, as we want to make sure it is not in his tendon sheath. So far, that appears to be good also.

Here is the deal guys, this horse has a fighting chance and will have a good quality of life. His jaw has one fracture and so far no signs of it affecting his sinus’ etc., We are watching that closely and if he shows any complications with his jaw, we will pursue surgery. Right now, everything looks good.

Please keep the prayers coming. There is power in Prayer. Even if you don’t support our decision, it is still God’s will if he survives. The least you can do is pray of him.
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[roseymare]

[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;7939602]
I suppose it’s just possible the horse became comatose and was unresponsive enough to make them believe he was dead. Assuming they looked hard. I’d bet my supper most owners have never seen a vet or butcher check a critter for brain death, which for practical purposes is pupil fixation and no corneal touch reflex. Wish you COULD prosecute “stupid,” but that would comprise 3/5 of America! :mad:

What this points up, actually, is the need for local horsemen to volunteer as livestock “first responders,” probably volunteer and preferably some with vet-tech training that someone could call when they just aren’t sure what they’re looking at and what to do about it. 'Course, around here they usually tend to call ME . . . :rolleyes: Bonus if the “responder” has heavy equipment.[/QUOTE]

I agree. I tend to think the people didn’t know. And people don’t like to see the corneal reflex used. They are baffled by it even when I tell them what I am doing.
So I guess I don’t know if they really thought the horse was dead then what as afar as prosectution? Heck people often think sleeping horses are dead.

[roseymare]

And another thing. The people did call animal control. They tried to do something. We don’t know when the horse’s injuries occurred. Before or after AC was called. Why didn’t AC investigate to make sure the horse was dead? Multiple faults in this case.
Of course I think that the owners signing over the horse was a sign that they don’t need to be owning horses but I am not so sure that they knowingly left a live horse caught in a fence. And the fact that they were not capable of trying to at least get the “dead” horse out of the fence speaks volumes as well. I firmly believe they should not own horses but I do not know enough information to determine whether they knowingly left a live horse to suffer. I do have enough information to know that they should not own horses though.

[laserRob]

A video of Rudy was posted at this Facebook page 4 hours ago:

Blaze’s Tribute Equine Rescue, Inc.

Ok to go there. He’s been cleaned, and bandaged.

[Angela_Freda]

[QUOTE=2enduraceriders;7939641]
For those who cannot get to the update here it is http://www.youcaring.com/nonprofits/rudy-s-fight-to-survive-/285664#.VKdQJGqBjuq.facebook

Updates
01/03/2015
by Natalee Cross
I can’t even begin to thank all you wonderful people for supporting Rudy. I know some don’t agree with our decision to help him and some feel he is better off being euthanized. I am sorry that you feel that way. But, Rudy is here, he has survived the worse part of this horrible ordeal. Rudy was down on the ground for 2 days, trapped in chain link fencing, being attacked by dogs, in the freezing ice and he never gave up. He fought to survive and we are fighting with him.

So, here is a quick update. We are on day 4, since Rudy was attacked. He is doing really well. He is starved for attention and can’t get enough of the loving. If you try to leave, he tries to come with you. He spent the morning itching his head all over me. We got his wounds cleaned up and they are looking great. His wounds are healing as they are supposed to. Yes, his wounds like horrible, but the wounds itself are not life threatening problems, as most of it is just skin. However, we have to watch for things like Tetanus, since we don’t know his vaccine history. [/QUOTE]

Uh… and rabies.

[clanter]

[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;7939530]

As someone up-thread mentioned, a major problem is our patchwork quilt of Town, County, State and Federal regulations with regard to animal cruelty, and the spotty enforcement thereof. ;)[/QUOTE]

Given where the area where this horse was there is a possibility the horse was on tribal land and not subject to those laws… I didn’t see any mention of location other than it appears to be near Oklahoma City

[Angelico]

[QUOTE=Angela Freda;7939771]
Uh… and rabies.[/QUOTE]

Which is very prominent in that area this year. My uncle lives very close to where they found the horse and he is aware of four different cases of horses dying of rabies within the last few months. I agree with your first post, head desk.

[findeight]

@Guilherme;7939605

In every state I’m aware of criminal behavior is defined by state law. Local jurisdictions can have local ordinances that regulate behaviors. In some places this includes the ability to incarcerate but sometimes not.

In short, there is no “patchwork” of law and/or regulation. It’s very clearly defined…

But it’s defined differently by different jurisdictions when it comes to mistreatment of livestock and such mistreatment rarely raises above misdemeanor levels even if it is prosecuted. In some counties, these owners would be guilty of mistreatment and negligence for letting the horse get caught in the unsafe fence. In others if they thought it was dead and called animal control? They did nothing wrong.

From state to state laws differ, such as open range laws. If you hit a loose domestic in an open range state, you fix your own car and pay the animals owner fir their loss. Next state over has no such statute, owner of animal pays for you and your car.

Look at the horse drawn carriage trade. One city has tough regulations about treatment and temperatures for operation. City 50 miles away has far fewer…or none. Yet another does not allow them.

Here, in SW Ohio, an owner leaving a dog chained without shelter in an urban county gets cited, fined and can do jail time. Go over to the neighboring, rural counties and there are no such statutes. Have a friend who will take large domestics as rescues on her farm, starving, cut, bleeding, one goat had a nylon collar grown into its neck. No charges filed, one tried, unsuccessfully, to get the animal back but was refused access to the private property, no law enforcement ever involved, not even animal control.

How often do we read on here one owner with geriatric horses in knee deep bluegrass with daily grain and lots of fresh water and shade has animal control visiting often called by concerned motorists who report they are starving. In another area, a concerned poster has called animal control over horrendous conditions with no shelter and nothing ever happens because they have a mud puddle and a few scraps of crappy hay.

My favorite is the local guy with dead horses in the creek running thru his property and carcasses around the barn. Big kerfuffle over that. But mostly fur contaminating the watershed. Rural county confiscated the rest of them, ended up auctioning most, guy got a few months in jail on multiple misdemeanors. At last report he was bidding and buying horses to build the herd back up, going into the same conditions. In some other counties and states, it would have been different.

So, yeah, as far as animals go, we have a patchwork of jurisdictions with differing statutes, standards and ability/willingness to enforce through law enforcement or animal control.

[JanM]

It all depends on the specific geographic location. Animal and cruelty laws are by state and county. If you live in an area where there is no animal control, or no enforcement, then nothing will be done. It’s also a matter of who you are, and that is very local. If you’re connected to the right people, then nothing will happen.

[Lady_Eboshi]

[QUOTE=roseymare;7939734]
And another thing. The people did call animal control. They tried to do something. We don’t know when the horse’s injuries occurred. Before or after AC was called. Why didn’t AC investigate to make sure the horse was dead? Multiple faults in this case.
Of course I think that the owners signing over the horse was a sign that they don’t need to be owning horses but I am not so sure that they knowingly left a live horse caught in a fence. And the fact that they were not capable of trying to at least get the “dead” horse out of the fence speaks volumes as well. I firmly believe they should not own horses but I do not know enough information to determine whether they knowingly left a live horse to suffer. I do have enough information to know that they should not own horses though.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. I think the penalty should BE no longer owning horses.

[Angela_Freda]

[QUOTE=Angela Freda;7939552]
But… But… look at all the donations they got!
Why curtail that?

$14,975
raised of $8,000 goal
BUT there are only 28 more days to donate, so hurry!
headdeskheaddesk*[/QUOTE]

any updates?

from their donation page:
$21,207
raised of $8,000 goal

[kdreger]

[QUOTE=Angela Freda;7955960]
any updates?

from their donation page:
$21,207
raised of $8,000 goal[/QUOTE]
Just click the update tab on the donations page. 5 updates so far, last on 1/12

[Angelico]

http://m.news9.com/Story.aspx?story=27832912&catId=112032

I get it, they mean well, but I can’t listen to any of these people speak without cringing.

[roseymare]

He still is lame on front from the video. Can’t see the injuries but it must be worse than reported.

[2enduraceriders]

[QUOTE=roseymare;7956186]
He still is lame on front from the video. Can’t see the injuries but it must be worse than reported.[/QUOTE]

The video that was taken a matter of days!!! after he was in the fence. Just what kind of magic wand do you expect the veterinarian to have in this case? I am sorry but I think your comment was inappropriate and senseless.

How about you go out in the pastures closer to your home and require every horse that is off to be put down?

The veterinarian is happy with his recovery and long term soundness. I will believe both the professionals opinion of his injuries and the superficiality of the injuries as shown by the photos.

[roseymare]

[QUOTE=2enduraceriders;7956272]
The video that was taken a matter of days!!! after he was in the fence. Just what kind of magic wand do you expect the veterinarian to have in this case? I am sorry but I think your comment was inappropriate and senseless.

How about you go out in the pastures closer to your home and require every horse that is off to be put down?

The veterinarian is happy with his recovery and long term soundness. I will believe both the professionals opinion of his injuries and the superficiality of the injuries as shown by the photos.[/QUOTE]

Ok I don’t think I said anything senseless but to each his own. It has been 10 days and he is still lame from “superficial” injuries. Just don’t think they are so superficial then. I didn’t say anything about prognosis just that they may be worse than originally reported. Nor did I say he should be euthanized.

[Lady_Eboshi]

[QUOTE=roseymare;7956186]
He still is lame on front from the video. Can’t see the injuries but it must be worse than reported.[/QUOTE]

Maybe he was lame before it even happened! I’d go with the judgment of the attending DVM in lieu of opinions formed with partial information on the Internet. :winkgrin: Not our horse, not our bill, not our problem. Thank God!

[moving_to_dc]

[QUOTE=roseymare;7956186]
He still is lame on front from the video. Can’t see the injuries but it must be worse than reported.[/QUOTE]

To me, he appears drunk from sedation, not lame.

[roseymare]

You are right LadyE. I just get irritated because no one seems to come out and say that this horse has serious injuries that thankfully are responding to treatment but nonetheless serious injuries that could turn south at any minute. That is my issue. I just worry about realistic expectations. But I would be just as irritated if they were going on and on about how bad they are. I am just a carmudgeon.

[Angelico]

[QUOTE=roseymare;7956836]
You are right LadyE. I just get irritated because no one seems to come out and say that this horse has serious injuries that thankfully are responding to treatment but nonetheless serious injuries that could turn south at any minute. That is my issue. I just worry about realistic expectations. But I would be just as irritated if they were going on and on about how bad they are. I am just a carmudgeon.[/QUOTE]

I think realism went out the window along with $20,000 that could have been used to help a lot of horses without so many problems. Being curmudgeon is better than being a bleeding heart, IMO.