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Why aren't Quarter Horses More Popular in the H/J Ring?

Hunter/Jumper
#161

[QUOTE=Vandy;4672522]
Can a QH expert explain something to me? (I own a few but know next to nothing about breeding or AQHA breed shows). Appendix horses can obviously be shown AQHA to achieve their ROM, right? What is the advantage to getting full QH papers? Just for breeding purposes? So this really just applies to mares or studs right? If this is correct, this seems like a way to get a registered Appendix that is far more than 7/8 TB (assuming both parents are 7/8 TB with ROM)?[/QUOTE]

I have the rulebook right here. No advantage for geldings, and most owners do not bother. Appx mares advancing to the regular registry can then be bred to a TB to get an Appx. foal, where as an Appx mare they can only be bred to a regular registry QH stud. Getting an ROM and a regular number is critical for a stud as there are so many Appx mares out there that may never get their regular registry. Someone previously mentioned that there is a cap on 7/8 TB blood to get a regular number, but the rule book does not mention that at all. Justa vet certificate stating horse is not parrot mouthed or a crypt orchid for studs, and 4 conformation photographs. I imagine those conf photographs would have to be pretty gross for AQHA to not process the registration on a horse with an ROM. The 4 photographs may be left over from the days of limiting white markings.

#162

We are getting snow here tomorrow. Yuck.
I just have to say that chestnut horse who won the senior hunter in 08 was it? He was a very nice example of a QH hunter. I wouldn’t mind riding that one.

#163

Sorry it was 09
http://vimeo.com/7657255

#164

[QUOTE=luvs2ridewbs;4673235]
Sorry it was 09
http://vimeo.com/7657255[/QUOTE]

If it is this horse:
http://www.aqha.com/showing/shows/worldshow/09winningrun/srworkhunter.html

He is actually from two appendix quarter horses:
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/on+record3

So far, Krymsun Kruzer is the only full quarter horse, with quarter horses going back to 1940, mentioned on this thread, of the horses who’s pedigrees I can verify.

He is a very nice horse, they all are nice horses. In my opinion, the continued use of thoroughbreds, along with the ability to call these horses ‘full quarter horses (breed)’ just furthers the stereotype that the AQHA (association and members) puts money over everything.

#165

My first horse that I got when I was 14 was a Quarter Horse. She is super quiet and super sweet and was a very successful hunter. I started her in the pre-childrens and took her all the way through the juniors and won maybe classes together. She has a very small stride and required a very forward ride,but she has a cute jump and was an awesome hack winner. She is now going on 17 and I am going on 22 and I still have her. She is in Wellington with me right now! She is the horse that I will never sell. :slight_smile:

#166

[QUOTE=Ajierene;4673327]
In my opinion, the continued use of thoroughbreds, along with the ability to call these horses ‘full quarter horses (breed)’ just furthers the stereotype that the AQHA (association and members) puts money over everything.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, like that’s exclusive to just QHs…:rolleyes:

#167

[QUOTE=Ajierene;4673327]

He is a very nice horse, they all are nice horses. In my opinion, the continued use of thoroughbreds, along with the ability to call these horses ‘full quarter horses (breed)’ just furthers the stereotype that the AQHA (association and members) puts money over everything.[/QUOTE]

I respectfully ask you to clarify your statement that …just furthers the stereotype that the AQHA (association and members) puts money over everything.

I am at a loss to see how this perpetuates a stereotype that the association and its membership are money grubbing. I simply don’t see the logic.

And in general I honestly don’t understand the general impression I have from this thread that AQHA is trying to pull a fast one on people by allowing TB into the registry. I mean you ride the horse, not the papers, does it matter what color the papers are if you like it?

#168

[QUOTE=Ajierene;4673327]
If it is this horse:
http://www.aqha.com/showing/shows/worldshow/09winningrun/srworkhunter.html

He is actually from two appendix quarter horses:
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/on+record3

So far, Krymsun Kruzer is the only full quarter horse, with quarter horses going back to 1940, mentioned on this thread, of the horses who’s pedigrees I can verify.

He is a very nice horse, they all are nice horses. In my opinion, the continued use of thoroughbreds, along with the ability to call these horses ‘full quarter horses (breed)’ just furthers the stereotype that the AQHA (association and members) puts money over everything.[/QUOTE]

He may have TB in him, but he looks very much like a QH to me:)

#169

for “Breeds” it’s fairly exclusive to the stock horses (AQHA, APHA and ApHC)

#170

It doesn’t matter until you get into a conversation about what a particular breed is “good” for. Then when you have a ton of people saying the breed is good for a discipline…but most of those horses have 50% of the breed blood or less…well…you see how the argument ends up here.

Anglo-Arabs can be decent hunters…but very few are going to argue that the full blooded Arab is a going to be a wise choice for a hunter. But what if the Arab folks got to register their Anglos as Arabs.

The dog world has it right. Those designers dogs are recognized as crossbreeds…no matter how useful or talented. There is no way a Labradoodle is going to EVER be a Labrador or a Poodle. If the Labradoodle people want someplace to register their dogs (and show them…which is the real $$$$ issue), they are going to have to make their own registry and get it approved by the AKC.

#171

The dog world has it right. Those designers dogs are recognized as crossbreeds…no matter how useful or talented. There is no way a Labradoodle is going to EVER be a Labrador or a Poodle. If the Labradoodle people want someplace to register their dogs (and show them…which is the real $$$$ issue), they are going to have to make their own registry and get it approved by the AKC.

The use of TB’s as part of the breeding program has been part of AQHA since day one. It is not a recent development so it doesn’t make the QH a designer equine. It is the breed as the association designed it, good bad or indifferent. The TB is part of the founding of QHs. So it is not an issue of weather or not they will EVER be a QH, they always have been part of it.

Since the original question is why aren’t QH more popular, it is becoming apparent that it not because people take a look at individual horses, it is because people are hung up on breed regulations:no::frowning:

#172

[QUOTE=wanabe;4662123]
These are good replies!

Interesting point about them being built somewhat downhill. I never knew that. I’m just looking for something that can take me over any 3.6" obstacle that I might VERY OCCASIONALLY encounter foxhunting and would work in my H/J lessons and unrated shows.

I think the calmness of the breed would make them work out well as foxhunters, but I wonder if they would have the stamina.[/QUOTE]

quarter horses are not popular on the large hunter show circuits because they just aren’t fancy enough. They tend to have shorter strides and a little less nimble- low straight neck kind of stiff. Show hunters are kind of modeled of that classic thoroughbred look-even the warmbloods, they want them to be refined and clunky.

As for me, I am a big fan of QH’s. Especially appendix types with a little more zip in them. If you are interested in local shows and foxhunting, a nice athletic QH would be a great choice. A lot of them are fabulous jumpers and 3’6" is no problem. I don’t know a ton about QH breeding, but I prefer more of the working quarter horse type which tends to be a little shorter and not stocky like a halter horse, but not like the pleasure horses with long legs. This is based off limited experience, but I find that the really quiet pleasure types are not as athletic as ones who were bread to do cows and ranch work. The latter make the better jumpers.

#173

No…it really is because the majority of QHs a person comes into contact with don’t meet the requirements.

My barn is populated by many, many QHs…and I can’t think of one that is going to make it in the 3’ ring. Most can only get the strides at 2’6" if they gallop…and sometimes they can’t even do that.

However, I will admit that most of these horses are beginner friendly, both in temperament and budget…so no one was purchasing them with an eye on the 3’ or higher ring.

Seems with the lower budget, more advanced riders in my barn, the TB is more popular. While these particular horses are a bit more difficult to ride, they can get the strides fairly easily…and they are still in the lower budget range.

As a shopper looking to the 3’ + ring, I’m not sifting through a ton of short-strided QHs to find the one that can get down the lines when there are plenty of other fish in the sea, so to speak. It’s about supply and demand. If there is something else that meets the right criteria more easily available at a lower price…that’s where people are going to go unless they are dead set on a specific breed.

#174

[QUOTE=RugBug;4674115]
No…it really is because the majority of QHs a person comes into contact with don’t meet the requirements. [/QUOTE]

This would be a much better reason than the TB influence argument:)

I can suggest some lines that might narrow down your search if you ever get the QH bug. Skys Blue Boy, Artful Move, Artful Investment, Coats n Tails, Last Detail- are a few that may produce the stride for the 3’s. Sneak Pre View (or Sneak Per View) it a TB stallion that crosses very nicely on QH mares. I know that they sell much of his get to H/J on the east coast.

A super cool cross is Stella Magnolia and TB mares. Stella Magnolia is deceased,but his get are big boned and good minded.

Come to the dark side:winkgrin:! If you show AQHA shows and get points you can get IF money, if the horse is in the Texas IF you would be eligible for that as well, as would you be if it were in the KY IF (did I just write a sentence?).

Just remember, an appendix IS a QH and is eligible for all of these cool awards.

#175

[QUOTE=Chuckles;4674160]
This would be a much better reason than the TB influence argument:)

I can suggest some lines that might narrow down your search if you ever get the QH bug. Skys Blue Boy, Artful Move, Artful Investment, Coats n Tails, Last Detail- are a few that may produce the stride for the 3’s. Sneak Pre View (or Sneak Per View) it a TB stallion that crosses very nicely on QH mares. I know that they sell much of his get to H/J on the east coast.

A super cool cross is Stella Magnolia and TB mares. Stella Magnolia is deceased,but his get are big boned and good minded.

Come to the dark side:winkgrin:! If you show AQHA shows and get points you can get IF money, if the horse is in the Texas IF you would be eligible for that as well, as would you be if it were in the KY IF (did I just write a sentence?).

Just remember, an appendix IS a QH and is eligible for all of these cool awards.[/QUOTE]

So…by your argument a Labradoodle IS a labrador…

An Anglo/Arab IS an Arabian…

A Morab IS a Morgan…

I have nothing against Quarter Horses, but it does a GREAT disservice to the Quarter Horse (great ranch horse) and the Thoroughbred (The reason the above mentioned horses do well in the hunter world).

Now, before your answer, think about the logic of this example:

Question: Why are percherons not popular in the endurance world?
Answer: Oh, breed prejudice my Percheron/Arab cross is a GREAT endurance horse. Percherons area great endurance horses.

So, no, the vast majority of FULL REAL Quarter Horses are not going to be competitive in the hunter ring.

(There is another snow storm here and I will be stuck in the house all night tonight, all day tomorrow and possibly Thursday…)

#176

I know I have played my part in helping this thread go way off topic…but I just want to add one more post…

I think people generalize things too much. There are SO many different types of horses that are registered with the AQHA. My sister trains reiners. You will not find any TB blood there. On occasion some of her rejects have gone on to become children pony hunters. The TB influence is very apparent in the English classes, but that is not consisted of the majority of the breed. AQHA is the largest breed group in America, and given the variety of classes they are geared towards, I think it is safe to say not every one is going to be suitable for every discipline, including H/J. There are a lot more QH being passed off as WBs than I think most people realize. I mean, I KNOW of a few showing quite often around here, in Westchester County, NY and winning at A shows. And their owners say “WB cross” when asked.

My boss’ full QH won ribbons at HITS in the 3’ this past summer. He was not short strided and was a pretty fancy, flashy 3’ hunter. He may not win at the big “A” shows, but he would hold his own. Someone today asked me about him and commented how he was a “scopey ba$7@*d despite being QH.” I know he meant it as a compliment, but it was a dig at the same time.

I know QH have gotten a bad rep in the H/J world for being short strided and not scopey or fancy enough. I think there are many suitable for Children’s Hunter-horse and pony, as well as A/A’s and other lower classes. There IS a market for horses that don’t do the 3’6 and higher classes, or horses not geared towards the big “AA” shows. There is a lot of prejudice against the breed, probably due to the fact there is SO many not suitable horses out there, and I think most people, if open minded, will realize if you judge each horse and not generalize them as a group, you could find more possibilities.

#177

Well, the TB influence is not really the argument about why QHs aren’t suitable for teh hunter ring. Actually, the argument is that the TB is what makes these horses suitable for hunters/jumpers. But it is a point that rankles many people.

So the AQHA lets you call your Labradoodle a Labrador. Breed wise that doesn’t make it a Labrador, no two ways about it, it’s a Labradoodle. And because your Labradoodle is successful in the hunter ring, doesn’t mean Labradors are succesful there. It’s all well and good for people who understand that the AQHA lets you call your Labradoodle a Labrador, but for those who don’t realize it, how do you find those L-doodles amoungst all the L-dors? (and yes, some L-dors (full QHs) are successful in H/J, but the number is even more limited than the L-doodles (high % TB QHs)

Thanks for the suggestions. I’ll keep those in mind during my next purchase. For now, I’ll stick with the TB I just bought. :winkgrin: :lol:

#178

[QUOTE=Chuckles;4673736]
I respectfully ask you to clarify your statement that …just furthers the stereotype that the AQHA (association and members) puts money over everything.

I am at a loss to see how this perpetuates a stereotype that the association and its membership are money grubbing. I simply don’t see the logic.

And in general I honestly don’t understand the general impression I have from this thread that AQHA is trying to pull a fast one on people by allowing TB into the registry. I mean you ride the horse, not the papers, does it matter what color the papers are if you like it?[/QUOTE]

Ajierene- did you miss this post or are you deliberately choosing not to clarify your statement.

So…by your argument a Labradoodle IS a labrador…

An Anglo/Arab IS an Arabian…

A Morab IS a Morgan…

Hmmmm…no…I am stating that the TB influence has always been a part of the AQHA registry, it is currently accepted by the association, and since they make the rules on what they will register, a horse in the appendix registry is a registered QH.

I would say that if the AKC, Arabian, and Morgan associations started their registries with the influences you are holding as and example and that if they continue to accept them, then those animals would meet the registries requirements.

AQHA says that horses in the appendix registry are REAL QH, not some poor man’s substitute for a QH. You seem to want to define a QH according to your own agenda.

#179

What Chuckles said.

The biggest difference between a Labador/Labordoodle and QH/Appendix is the fact that the AKC does NOT allow poodles into the Labador registry. A Lab/Poodle corss, aka Labordoodle, is therefore a mixed breed dog, a mutt, or a so-called designer dog. AQHA DOES allow TB into the registry, therefore QH/TB is eligible for the Appendix registry. It does not allow Morgans, therefore QH/Morgan is a grade horse. End of story. You can disagree, and dislike all you want, but that is how the AQHA operates and those who breed accordingly are within their rights to register their foals as an Appendix QH.

#180

So the AQHA lets you call your Labradoodle a Labrador. Breed wise that doesn’t make it a Labrador, no two ways about it, it’s a Labradoodle. And because your Labradoodle is successful in the hunter ring, doesn’t mean Labradors are succesful there. It’s all well and good for people who understand that the AQHA lets you call your Labradoodle a Labrador, but for those who don’t realize it, how do you find those L-doodles amoungst all the L-dors? (and yes, some L-dors (full QHs) are successful in H/J, but the number is even more limited than the L-doodles (high % TB QHs)

Rug Bug, I hope you are enjoying your new horse. I must say the discussion of the Labrador whoosits stuff is really muddying the waters. I would say, just like anytime someone gets into horses, they get into a breed that someone points them toward. There are myriad reasons I like QH, but one is that it is enough of an everyman’s breed that I can see both parents - either at a show or at the farm, or I can talk to someone who knows the parents.It has taken time an education for me to get to this point. But that would be true for any bred I would be interested in.

You can disagree, and dislike all you want, but that is how the AQHA operates and those who breed accordingly are within their rights to register their foals as an Appendix QH.
Thank you Equino, I needed to put on my big girl panties and be blunt.
“Sorry you don’t like it, but you can’t negate an entire registries rules because you don’t find them aesthetically pleasing” pretty close to what I should have said.

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