Why can't the internet resist playing vet when not asked?!

[dontskipthecafe]

I took video of my horse on the lunge line yesterday. My horse has gotten much better about putting her head down and stretching under saddle, but goes around in a very hollow, bad frame on the line. My trainer suggested using a chambon while lunging only, so I did.

JeSUS, I should not have posted that video online.

My mare was just tooling around on the end of the line, because I cannot hold a whip and a camera phone at the same time. When I do not have a whip, my mare has a tendency to be lazy and not track up as much. She also does not have all of the muscle she needs in her hind end, so sometimes she swaps her lead behind at the canter when she doesn’t have much impulsion.

Someone felt the need to insist that my horse has SI disease and I need to have her seen by a vet right now. Someone else told me that I was cruel for using a chambon and I was damaging my horse.

This horse has been seen by a vet. She has some incorrect muscling in her neck that the chambon has been helping to change (recommended by both vet and trainer). She has some arthritis in her right stifle. For an OTTB who raced for five years, her SI issues are extremely minor. I said all of this. I was told that my vet is an idiot and I need to have someone else out.

Jeez. I was just showing off my mare’s attractive trot.

[JB]

There’s a difference between “playing vet” in pointing out what might be obvious to those not as close to the situation, or something subtle that the “vet” has personal experience with, and “playing vet” and deeming themselves more knowledgeable than any vet out there.

The latter category of people are annoying, you are right.

The former category of people have saved owners lots of time and grief by not chasing down the wrong things, and even by realizing something IS wrong and fixing it before it becomes a real problem.

[Highflyer]

Not to be mean, but have you never used the internet before?

[dontskipthecafe]

[QUOTE=Highflyer;8092718]
Not to be mean, but have you never used the internet before?[/QUOTE]

I’d posted video of her trotting free before and was told she was very fancy and I should post a longer video of her on a lunge line. I posted a video of her on the lunge line without the chambon and was told she had an awful hollow frame. Posted video with chambon and was told I was a horrible person. Sigh. I’m done with that group.

[JB]

To be fair, a horse can look great when trotting around at liberty because they’re a bit high on adrenaline, but when put into forced work, their body issues come into play and they revert back to what’s comfortable for them. It’s really, really common to see people letting their horse travel inverted on the lunge.

Chambon? Not a big fan for many reasons, the biggest of which being that it does nothing to address the root of the problem, which is the hind end.

Some people just don’t know how to tactfully say some things

[whbar158]

My general rule about posting stuff is don’t post it if you aren’t ready to be criticized because some people just can’t help themselves. Sometimes it sucks. I tend to be able to see lameness really well so sometimes I may think I see something but I would never post on the picture or video I would send a polite message about have you noticed this or something. Unfortunately the internet is a very easy place to be rude and over step boundaries. I try not to say anything I wouldn’t say in person but many people do not follow that or are also that rude in person.

[dontskipthecafe]

I may regret this, but… the mare in question:

Right trot: http://i.imgur.com/ftCVQ01.jpg

Left trot: http://i.imgur.com/2woFrZ9.jpg

Left canter: http://i.imgur.com/XW3nQYg.jpg

I understand that the chambon is not a perfect solution. I’ve also used a knockoff Pessoa system (elastic, and altered so it doesn’t jerk her in the face), but I felt that posting that on the internet would be an even worse idea.

[Jealoushe]

You aren’t going to get off any better on CoTH. I also had my a** handed to me over a lunging video - it was more a lecture on not using a whip and how I attach my lunge line…even though it was the same way Klimke attaches his LOL

Nevertheless, some people DO have a good eye and their comments could be taken to heart. some people are just trolls…let the comments toll. You post it online, be ready for the storm.

I have to say, you have said this horse has a few issues, and we have already established it is not comfortable under saddle. Why get so offended when someone suggests something that might help you figure out why your horse is in discomfort.

[dontskipthecafe]

[QUOTE=Jealoushe;8092801]
I have to say, you have said this horse has a few issues, and we have already established it is not comfortable under saddle. Why get so offended when someone suggests something that might help you figure out why your horse is in discomfort.[/QUOTE]

You’re thinking of a different horse, my friend dungrulla’s gelding, being uncomfortable under saddle. This one is in training and is doing very well. The only reason I was investigating stifle is because the vet mentioned that it might be an issue in February, and I want to make sure there’s nothing serious before I start doing anything like jumping her. The stifle has also improved dramatically since she’s muscled up and the weather has gotten less awful, which makes me suspect arthritis that was reacting to the cold.

[Jealoushe]

ok, thanks for clarifying. To me the chambon looks a bit tight, maybe that was a concern?

[beowulf]

psst… word of advice when lunging… feed the end of your stirrup leathers through the stirrup and then feed the tongue of the stirrup leather through the leathers and then the stirrup keeper… you don’t want stirrups flapping around when in chambon.

just doing my due diligence of offering advice when it’s not wanted.

P.S, take everything on the internet with a grain of salt. i watch OTTB CONNECT on FB and it does have a lot of helpful and keen-eyed posters, but it also has its fair share of rude harridans and frenzied wenches.

[dontskipthecafe]

[QUOTE=Jealoushe;8092815]
ok, thanks for clarifying. To me the chambon looks a bit tight, maybe that was a concern?[/QUOTE]

That is possible, though it wasn’t mentioned in the comments. I think I’m going to loosen it a bit when I work her tonight and see how she does.

[dontskipthecafe]

[QUOTE=beowulf;8092820]
psst… word of advice when lunging… feed the end of your stirrup leathers through the stirrup and then feed the tongue of the stirrup leather through the leathers and then the stirrup keeper… you don’t want stirrups flapping around when in chambon.

just doing my due diligence of offering advice when it’s not wanted.

P.S, take everything on the internet with a grain of salt. i watch OTTB CONNECT on FB and it does have a lot of helpful and keen-eyed posters, but it also has its fair share of rude harridans and frenzied wenches.[/QUOTE]

Yeahhh, my bad on the stirrups >.< Forgot to take them off. I usually don’t even leave the stirrups on the saddle while I’m lunging. That’s advice that I don’t mind!

I was kicked out of OTTB Connect for liking a comment that Laura disapproved of, got back in when I apologized, and then got banned for “posting too much” after I got my mare (like, once a day). Not a fan.

[Kyzteke]

[QUOTE=dontskipthecafe;8092791]
I may regret this, but… the mare in question:

Right trot: http://i.imgur.com/ftCVQ01.jpg

Left trot: http://i.imgur.com/2woFrZ9.jpg

Left canter: http://i.imgur.com/XW3nQYg.jpg

I understand that the chambon is not a perfect solution. I’ve also used a knockoff Pessoa system (elastic, and altered so it doesn’t jerk her in the face), but I felt that posting that on the internet would be an even worse idea.[/QUOTE]

I’m not sure what you are looking for (in terms of a response) by posting those pics.

I’m seeing an attractive horse moving very obviously on the forehand. I do not see the chambon helping her in any way. In the canter especially it is restricting her.

I don’t see any unsoundness 'cause these are still pics.

I guess I would ask if she is going better when being ridden, way not just ride her? I find it interesting your VET recommended a chambon. Is your vet also a dressage rider? Not being snarky at all, but it’s odd to hear of vets giving training advice.

And here is a “criticism” you are really going to hate – IMHO that sand is WAAAY too deep for serious work. Just asking for a sprain/bow/etc…not to mention it makes the horse work really hard.

But hey, these are all just MY opinions. If you want outside opinions, post stuff of the Net and be ready. If you want all positive opinions, just email this stuff to good friends.

Did you send this footage to your trainer & vet? What did THEY think? I would think those opinions are of far more importance than anyone on the internet, including mine.

[grayarabpony]

Why did some of the posters think she had an SI injury?

Both of my horses have had SI injuries and they presented differently. One would try to hold her pelvis level and swing the leg out (but still track up). I couldn’t feel anything under saddle except her absolute refusal to bend left.

The other one couldn’t swing the hind leg under at the canter, so both back feet were basically landing in the same place (not literally, but one foot wasn’t going further forward than the other as it does normally in the canter).

[JB]

100% agree with Kyzteke on how the mare looks. I see a mare who is working hard to avoid contact, and while her front end is “round”, her body is not round - it’s just not blatantly hollow She’s quite on her forehand.

That’s exactly why I said what I did about the chambon - they do nothing to affect the hind end, which is what makes or breaks how a horse moves.

I do understand your desire to undo hollowed muscle development and encourage more correct carriage, but IMVHO the chambon is not the tool to do that.

Nothing in the pictures says SI issue to me, but video might make someone think that, I don’t know.

[grayarabpony]

She looks good in the canter pic although it looks like the chambon may be catching her as she is attempting to lift her poll and shoulders (which is what you want).

Feel free to flame if that’s wrong, I’ve never used a chambon. I don’t even like side reins, because I prefer that the horse be able to fully stretch on the lunge.

[dontskipthecafe]

[QUOTE=Kyzteke;8092830]
I’m not sure what you are looking for (in terms of a response) by posting those pics.

I’m seeing an attractive horse moving very obviously on the forehand. I do not see the chambon helping her in any way. In the canter especially it is restricting her.[/QUOTE]

If I had pictures of her going without it, you might understand better >.< She likes to hold her head up in the sky and move very hollow. Her trot really does look a thousand times better than it does without the chambon. We’re working on lunging without it. And yes, I agree that the canter is restricted.

@Kyzteke;8092830

I guess I would ask if she is going better when being ridden, way not just ride her? I find it interesting your VET recommended a chambon. Is your vet also a dressage rider? Not being snarky at all, but it’s odd to hear of vets giving training advice.

Trainer and vet agreed that her overdeveloped under-neck muscles and tendency to run around with her head in the air were not helping her and might cause issues. It wasn’t really that the vet suggested it, but when the trainer mentioned it, he said it might help.

@Kyzteke;8092830

And here is a “criticism” you are really going to hate – IMHO that sand is WAAAY too deep for serious work. Just asking for a sprain/bow/etc…not to mention it makes the horse work really hard.

Agreed. I’m probably not going to lunge outside again until the ground dries out a little more and it’s not so heavy out there.

@Kyzteke;8092830

Did you send this footage to your trainer & vet? What did THEY think? I would think those opinions are of far more importance than anyone on the internet, including mine.

BO (not trainer) said she looks great, and trainer hasn’t seen it yet. Vet will see it when he comes out on the 24th. Thank you for the input (I am not being sarcastic at all, seriously, thank you)!

[Jealoushe]

The thing with young and green horses is that they often carry their head in places to help them balance. If she has her head way up in the air it’s either to help her balance and carry herself due to lack of muscle, or it could be pain. SI can manifest that way, also bunny hops at the canter. Forcing their head down does nothing but strain muscles and make the horse work through some very uncomfortable moments. This is how injuries occur.

Some lunging wthout gadgets, or long lining might be better to start until the horse learns to accept the contact more.

[merrygoround]

I understand where the OP is coming from. Several in the barn had someone out to do some saddle fitting. One horse is very lazy on the lead. The visitor informed the owner that the horse was lame behind, needed injections, etc. etc.
Owner was in tears, and so distressed tht they were incapable of riding competently.

Gee I wonder why barn guest was never invited back.