The two (2!!!) places that I contacted that did have dressage school horses were very much into the idea of the student either (a) leasing the horse; or (b) signing up for a long-term lesson package. I have no problem with the latter, though it would be pricey, but I simply cannot do the former. My own horse is limited to the walk and vets have said he should NOT be turned out, so I continue to pay full board on a stall/paddock situation. Understanding the realities of the teacher/trainer situation with regard to dressage school horses, however, doesn’t help the individual in my situation or the OP case. And the ones near me are a long drive away, esp. since I only have a truck. It is what it is. As I said above, guess I’m returning to the H/J world.
Well, I guess my question is - why should someone else feel obligated to provide a rent-a-horse to someone who wants no long term commitment to the trainer’s program or the horse itself?
your horse’s situation is not really their problem. The trainer’s problem is balancing expenses with revenue.
it is exceedingly difficult to find a truly rideable horse with an amateur friendly temperament. To find one that will then willingly teach is super difficult. To maintain the training costs the trainer time.
It is normal in the hunter world to need to lease something if you want to show or move on past the low fences or into the equitation where the horses are more specialized. I don’t know why it is somehow seen as an affront that the same is true of dressage horses. A reliable bronze medal horse is worth serious money even on a lease because the 2nd level jump is very real. It’s one thing to teach someone to ride 8 low jumps on a horse with an auto change. It’s entirely another to teach a rider the correct feel of a half pass or how to do the simple changes correctly or even how to ride a proper shoulder in.
If your ability exceeds that of the available horses for rent, you would not be the first person who has to chill for a few years. For most of us the desire exceeds the bank account.
My 4th Level horse became a schoolmaster (for a GP trainer’s lesson program) at 23 years old after a bout of EPM and Cushings truncated our competitive ambitions.
I see no reason why upper level horses that have “aged out” or had infirmities that keep them from being competitive in the show ring cannot become lesson horses.
I would say high level school masters are difficult to find in any discipline. We have reiners and while I have 1 or 2 I can give lessons on, they are the equivalent of a training level or 1st level dressage horse, if you want to ride the Reiner that makes 73, you’re going to have to buy it. They are trained at a very high level and the last thing their rider wants is to have the horse teaching lessons.
I think barns either focus on training young horses and owners with horses or they are at a lower level and do tons and tons of lessons. It would seem to be very hard to have a string of high level show horses and then also keep a string of lesson horses.
Let’s not confuse “schoolmaster”…as in LESSON HORSE…with a competitive performance horse.
A LESSON HORSE, by definition is a horse that is no longer competitive…else he would be…competing.
A schoolmaster can provide a student the way to learn how to school higher level movements.
The horse knows what to do…it is the human that is the student.
Well, there are two problems.
One, that in dressage we have no entry level. Even if the dressage trainer has a horse that can teach a raw beginner, it’s not realistic to expect someone who has never ridden a horse to sign up to lease it. And, beginners are best suited by horses that are specialists in teaching beginners, and by a mix of several such horses, because learning to ride different horses is how you figure out what riding in general is and how to do it. I have never come across a dressage trainer with a riding school of any kind (a few eventers). This is the kiss of death for a sport, and the only reason we survive is we get castoffs trained by our hunter-jumper friends. (I say that lovingly as a castoff myself.)
Second, that even to lease a schoolmaster, they are hard to find. Where riders really need the education is at 2nd level and up.
I know several trainers who have a training level lesson horse you can ride for a few lessons to get into it. Realistically, if you are a raw beginner, you are years away from the core strength and body control required to ride even rudimentary dressage. The raw beginner aiming towards hunters is learning the exact same thing - how to not fall off at the walk, trot, and canter. You can go to any lesson mill for this education, it doesn’t need to be “dressage training.” You can’t even hope to be able to do things like time the aids or carry a contact if you can’t even stay on.
I just don’t think it’s realistic to expect a 4th level horse to be sitting around waiting to teach you the 3 tempis for the cost of a $75/hr lesson. That horse is worth thousands per year leased to one rider even if not competition sound for exactly this reason - good teachers are hard to come by at any price. And it took years of training to get it there in the first place, never mind get it to that level and then teach it to take a joke with a learning rider.
I guess what bothers me is where I live there isn’t really LESSON horses. I’m lucky to have friends horses to ride so I can get in shape. It is a bit tough to lease when you aren’t in shape. Tough to get in shape if you can’t take lessons because there isn’t at least a walk trot canter horse available. I guess you could just go to a h/j for awhile to get in shape.
I’ve figured out my own situation but it does seem like it would be impossible to get into Dressage in some areas, without owning.
I don’t expect anyone to change how they run their business. I get the costs. It’s a bummer though especially for future Dressage riders.
i am willing to commit to a lesson package: I cannot afford a lease. Chill for a few years? Uh…I’m a healthy, active, working full time 73 year old. My horse is only 14. The practicality of “chilling for a few years” is, ah…dubious? LOL
Not sure where all the beginner references came from. I was showing second, schooling 3rd when my horse was injured. I’m not looking for “beginner dressage lessons.”
The beginner references probably came from the fact that many of the lesson horses in HJ barns can earn their keep by getting used for beginner lessons, even if they are also capable of being used for more advanced lessons. Part of the problem with dressage lesson horses is that most of the current potential clients aren’t beginners.
There was a dressage trainer at my previous stable who arranged for a few horseless students to use horses owned by clients or by other people at the barn, including the HJ trainer’s lesson horses.
Yes, but no matter how well that trained hunter is, if it weren’t the right athlete-- big enough, long-strided enough, good-moving and good jumping-enough, it won’t win. In fact, it won’t have been made into a school master because it wasn’t worth the investment.
In dressage world, I think lots more horses can be made into successful 3rd-level horses and then, from there, can become these lower-level schoolmaster-type lesson horses people want. See what I mean? The pool of horses that will receive the very expensive training required is greater in dressage.
We have a saintly Lipizzaner gelding who is competing FEI and can give beginner lunge lessons one-2 times/wk, problem is, once the intermediate riders take the reins, he’s ok plodding around for them but the next day he is a strong crotchety mess when the FEI riders get on.
Another horse has maxed out at I-1 and lets 2nd-3rd level riders have decent lessons on him, but once asking for more demanding movements, or if he thinks your thinking about asking, he becomes too much horse for them…and he’s far too much horse for most training level/1st level riders…
we had an amazing horse who taught beginners the very basics, could do tempis and half steps for his more knowledgeable riders then go back to no stirrup lunge line lessons no problem but he passed away at 26…that kind of unicorn is one in a million.
I know of some PRE horses that fit the bill but as someone above mentioned they are client/student owned and one would have to go through their owners to get permission to have lessons on.
OP may have to do some looking around for a gentle horse that knows the basics whose owner approves of a lesson arrangement…
You completely missed my point, but again, you wouldn’t be the first person to have an early retiree who can’t afford a second horse and just has to deal with that situation. It doesn’t obligate someone else to keep a stable of horses for you to rent commitment free when your level of ability exceeds that of the available horses. In other words it doesn’t make sense to be asking “what is someone in my situation supposed to do?!” because your situation isn’t the motivating factor behind keeping lesson horses.
if I wanted to ride a 1.20 jumper. I wouldn’t be able to find that available for per-lesson use, either. Nor would I find a fast barrel racer, an experienced reiner, or a 2* eventer. It isn’t practical (to use your term) to keep these sitting around for a few advanced riders with low budgets to ride, except in a few unique cases where the horse can’t be leased to one rider for more income. That makes them rare. It is what it is.
I occasionally let my trainer use my horses for lessons, but it wouldn’t be a regular thing. More like “so and so needs to ride something that can really show her Y movement” and they have one lesson. It’s very difficult to consign your well trained horse (that you usually spent a lot of money training) to be ridden by someone who may undo that training. It’s probably not something that would be offered right off them bat.
I think the best route for many is to find a place that does lower-level eventing. Around here there are a number of stables that do lessons that have that as a focus ( or one of them) So they may do the mass kid/beginner lessons as h-j, but also offer horses that have an eventing (and dressage) background for more advanced “eventing” lessons. Often there are horses for lessons that can do First, some Second level movements. Often they are horses limited in jumping by injury.
It is difficult to find third level or above schoolmasters. Of course it would also be difficult to find a lovely 3’6" hunter as a schoolmaster. Lesson horses for higher levels are hard to find in most disciplines.
I was fortunate to be able to ride a horse trained to PSG in lessons for a while. Like many, she was my instructor’s retired competition horse. It was a fun and humbling experience!
PM’ed you, Lunabear. Just a reminder that my gelding is 4th level and available for lessons. We’re in Elizabeth, so not conveniently close – but hey, we’re in the same state!
None of my trainers have horses I can ride. But I do know a few who has Some, but not higher level… I am in Scandinavia.
I think an additional factor that was touched on is that less experienced dressage riders tend to be tougher on a dressage horse’s training than a similarly experienced hunter rider.
The typical hunter rider tends to be taught in a more forward, less influential/interfering balance point (hunt seat) than the more upright, longer position of the dressage student (german school most commonly). That’s harder on the back and mouth of the dressage horse, requires more maintenence rides and results in far less reasonable lessons without ruining their body or temperament.
Its not a jab at either method. I’ve great respect for both disciplines
LOL. Y’know, @soloudinhere, I don’t like to get into internet trainwrecks, but really, I’m not DEMANDING someone supply me with a high level schoolmaster, just lamenting the fact that they are so rare - even at 3rd level, and accordingly, feeling a little frustrated, especially since I’m not 24 years old with years of riding ahead of me. From your comments in the freestyle qualifying scores thread and here, it seems that you are in complete agreement with TPTB who seem to think that if one doesn’t have the bucks to support two (or more) horses, lease or buy a schoolmaster, have a professional create one’s freestyle (so spectators eyes don’t bleed from one’s amateur incompetence), and certainly NOT perform a freestyle below, oh, 4th level, one should just get out of the sandbox and go elsewhere and not bother serious dressage folk.
I feel your pain. Horses are expensive.
You know, there is nothing wrong with euthanizing an unsound, not useful horse, even if it technically looks healthy. Lots of people do this, even if it isn’t talked about often. And the more expensive the area, the more often it is done IME. very few can afford to keep pasture puffs around especially when they spend all this money to RIDE, because they love this sport.
Not at all, but I’m not surprised that someone with your attitude would interpret what I’m saying that way. Simply because I think freestyles are silly, I’m an elitist jerk. Right, okay.
This fact is true of all sports, if you want to participate in them at any sort of serious level. Serious equipment (if you will) costs serious money, and a pair of skis does not need $400 shoes every 6 weeks.
If you took the time out to actually speak to these barns and take some lessons that you feel are “beneath” your level, you might find that something becomes available to you. Instead you are in here lamenting that a trainer doesn’t maintain a stable of select horses for rent to the public and that this is somehow evidence of trainers not supporting the sport by making it accessible to all regardless of budget. That’s the part I don’t get. If you had this schoolmaster, would you offer to let someone you didn’t even know just hop on there and take it for a spin? I don’t think you’ll find them nearly as difficult to find once you are in a program and engaged with a trainer.
