Why do Dressage trainers have no schoolmasters/lesson horses and H/J's do?

[Belowthesalt]

@soloudinhere. ??? I NEVER said I felt basic lessons are “beneath” my level??? I merely said that having shown through 2nd level, I would like to do more. As far as basic riding and/or instruction, there are horses where I board and elsewhere that I can ride of that type, but I would like to progress more. I HAVE talked to the two barns that have schoolmasters and they are not just W/T/C horses. They sounded quite welcoming, I am very interested in working with them, and have expressed my willingness to purchase a long-term lesson package, but have hesitated to go forward at this time because, besides being fairly expensive (and I am trying to budget for this), both are quite a distance from where I live/board. Since I still work full time, my free hours are limited, and due to the fact that they DO have more advanced horses, they are often fully booked. My own regular trainer has two horses that are “merely” W/T/C that I can ride pretty much whenever wish (though one is probably too small for me - a near pony-sized Arabian). She did have a 4th level horse, but sadly, he is older and has had soundness issues, so that has not been a possibility.

I also never said that a lack of school horses was evidence of trainers not supporting the sport. Perhaps someone else did, but not me. Apparently, just being a bit discouraged that opportunities are limited is having an “attitude?”

And frankly, on the other thread, you expressed more than merely feeling that freestyles are “silly.”

[mvp]

I do think that the lack of group lessons is another problem with the discipline/business-model for dressage. Teaching private lessons only really, really reduces the possibility of generating profit!

[Belowthesalt]

@mvp

I do think that the lack of group lessons is another problem with the discipline/business-model for dressage. Teaching private lessons only really, really reduces the possibility of generating profit!

A friend of mine back east related a tale of being in WPB or Wellington, and Robt. Dover conducting a group dressage lesson. Of course, that’s high level people on their own horses, with him just tossing out comments occasionally. LOL

[x-halt-salute]

@mvp

I do think that the lack of group lessons is another problem with the discipline/business-model for dressage. Teaching private lessons only really, really reduces the possibility of generating profit!

I will admit that I selfishly love the fact that dressage trainers tend not to have business models that revolve around group lessons, up-down beginners, and school horse strings. It means that when I’ve had to relocate I can focus on finding the best trainer with a boarding option and be fairly certain that I won’t have to spend my limited after work riding hours trying to school in the midst of a half dozen overwhelmed newbies with unreliable steering and brakes.

I’ve never had a problem finding horses to ride, including in dressage lessons, when I’ve been horseless, but I’m also convinced that I can learn something from any horse and am pretty satisfied with my riding life even without access to schoolmasters. I certainly wouldn’t trade reasonably quiet arenas and riding companions who can anticipate movements and cooperate in space sharing for better access to schoolmasters!

[emipou]

Well @Luna Bear I hope you do find a schoolmaster. It took a schoolmaster for me to learn how to really engage my core. And the schoolmaster I was leasing up til a few months ago was able to teach me so much. They are totally worth their weight in gold. Just keep looking, you will find one.

[netg]

@emipou

Well @Luna Bear I hope you do find a schoolmaster. It took a schoolmaster for me to learn how to really engage my core. And the schoolmaster I was leasing up til a few months ago was able to teach me so much. They are totally worth their weight in gold. Just keep looking, you will find one.

Of go visit Emipou and let her direct you toward one.

Or visit me, and ride some of the horses my trainer has to ride! You’d have fun on Ellie!

[emipou]

@netg

Of go visit Emipou and let her direct you toward one.

Or visit me, and ride some of the horses my trainer has to ride! You’d have fun on Ellie!

yesyes!! When are you coming out to california?

[theresak]

I think part of the issue is also the differences in demographics of the riders in dressage versus H/J. Most dressage riders are going to be adult women. A lot will be Type A personalities, not interested or scared of jumping, and/or have always dreamed of having a horse. H/J riders will be a much broader mix of age ranges, including many more children and teens.

When the dressage AA gets into riding more seriously than the beginner lesson horses can accommodate, they buy a horse. I think we are very unlikely to “lease” our horses to lesson programs/trainers due to many considerations such as - a decent time in the work force means they can afford the horse without a lease, owning a horse is a dream/big deal, the idea of the relationship they have with their horse that is special…

And I think often trainers are able to sell their schoolmasters to AAs for decent money to finance their next young horse purchase. If they can sell the horse and never have to worry about covering retirement costs, as a business owner why would you not sell the horse.

[amb]

Leasing is mostly where it’s at around here, but I think just to give the horses (and trainer!) a little continuity and commitment. Most every dressage barn around here has horses available for month-by-month fractional lease; a tab I happen to have open has a solid second-level horse advertised for quarter-lease (one lesson and one practice ride per week) for $340/month, which seems about typical and also quite approachable, but usually I only hear about stuff from talking to people.

I was in the same boat once, and then I started asking around, and within a few weeks I had more offers than I knew what to do with. (That said, this seems like a pretty darn dressagey area.)

[SnicklefritzG]

Yes! This is so true!

I made huge progress in my riding from riding a GP schoolmaster who was very kind, but insistent on correct aids. For example, when I first started riding him, I would get passage instead of trot, ones instead of a working canter. Talk about first world problems! Then after a decent number of lessons, I only get changes that I ask for (90% of the time) and we’re doing 2nd and 3rd level work. It is now actually fun to ride a horse with a lot of power. In the beginning I thought ugh no, I hate this. But now it is enjoyable.

Schoolmasters like this aren’t easy to find. Either they are for paid lease and therefore somewhat expensive or they are a free lease going to very selective situations. I’m very lucky because the dressage trainer I work with has a schoolmaster on free lease from a young rider who is now in college and doesn’t have time to ride. The horse is older and not currently competing at GP but still has all the moves.

I know some trainers who give lessons on their FEI sales horses, but that’s typically to people they know well and who ride at a decent level, not beginners.

@emipou

Well @Luna Bear I hope you do find a schoolmaster. It took a schoolmaster for me to learn how to really engage my core. And the schoolmaster I was leasing up til a few months ago was able to teach me so much. They are totally worth their weight in gold. Just keep looking, you will find one.

[emipou]

@SnicklefritzG

Yes! This is so true!

I made huge progress in my riding from riding a GP schoolmaster who was very kind, but insistent on correct aids. For example, when I first started riding him, I would get passage instead of trot, ones instead of a working canter. Talk about first world problems! Then after a decent number of lessons, I only get changes that I ask for (90% of the time) and we’re doing 2nd and 3rd level work. It is now actually fun to ride a horse with a lot of power. In the beginning I thought ugh no, I hate this. But now it is enjoyable.

Schoolmasters like this aren’t easy to find. Either they are for paid lease and therefore somewhat expensive or they are a free lease going to very selective situations. I’m very lucky because the dressage trainer I work with has a schoolmaster on free lease from a young rider who is now in college and doesn’t have time to ride. The horse is older and not currently competing at GP but still has all the moves.

I know some trainers who give lessons on their FEI sales horses, but that’s typically to people they know well and who ride at a decent level, not beginners.

That sounds like a fabulous opportunity for you.

My current guy I haven’t really considered as a schoolmaster so to speak, but he sure if making me honest in everything I do. 15yo PRE and he wants every bit of your attention. You. Will. Do. Your. Canter. Correctly. So of course, we are going through some really difficult work. I’ve been taking lessons 2x a week on him since around May, when the schoolmaster was 'mostly-'retired.

It’s funny though - my trainer has to remind me sometimes that M, the current guy wants to show me the way to do things if I just allow him. So I guess he sort is a schoolmaster in a way. One thing for sure, he WILL make me a better rider.

[Dressurfrau]

I retired my GP schoolmaster last year and recently lost him. I’ve been on the lookout for an older schoolmaster but the prices are above what I can afford. For me, it’s a budget thing not to have one for my students.

I’m still searching but I think it may be a while before I can find an affordable schoolmaster.

[Willy_Von_Whompers]

They are as rare as hen’s teeth in my neck of the woods. I’ve been lucky in the past and been in the right place at the right time to have access to some lovely ones. Made all the difference in the world to me and just reinforced that training is all basics, they just get more refined. A lesson I needed. It’s not tricks it’s the same stuff just more refined.

I think one of the reasons there aren’t more readily available is not many people want their older well trained horses to have to keep on pounding around the ring. It takes a lot of practice for a rider to get the feel for one time changes and canter p’s and those are high demand exercises for an older horse.

I have an older former PSG horse at the moment (not bought as a schoolmaster, I had no idea of his history until much later).

We don’t drill…he’s so over that! He would be very sour and pissy if that was his retirement years. We work on soft stretching, loosening - breaking down the exercises into easy pieces for my benefit - I get to feel what he’s doing under me, and then once in a while he gives me one of his party tricks…just coz he can! Or we go for a tootle around the fields, he may offer something athletic out there for fun.

It’s not totally fair to an elderly professor type of horse to have him doing hard work in lessons day after day. I wouldn’t want my guy doing it. I do think if you are lucky enough to have access to such a horse then you should have a good instructor to help you…you can minimize the repetition of hard exercises if you are shown what you need to know in a softer and easier way for the horse. Getting into and out of piaffe correctly is quite an art of feel, and doing a change on a simple wall to wall gives you that “tick tock” feeling without doing a line of 15. Same with canter p work, you can make it so the rider gets the feel and horse’s hocks don’t take a 15 min pounding.

[Tyrus_Mom]

It has been on my bucket list all of my life to ride a schoolmaster through the more complex movements… I may achieve it yet… still hoping. I have heard of someone here in my area (So. Cal.) who gives lessons on schoolmasters for a price. I’m hoping to do that at some point if the “legend” is true. However, I do have a young horse of my own and going through my own ups and downs there… so my priority list is pretty full at present. Still… I read this thread and think how lucky so many people are to experience this. Dressage is such an amazing sport at the upper levels.

I totally see where schoolmasters are so precious that they can’t just be used willy nilly by newbie riders and anyone who has trained and owned one… well… I would consider my death the only thing that would separate me from that horse (if I had such a unicorn.)

At present I think I might have experienced a piaffe and passage on my horse when he got over-excited over a new item placed near the arena once… he’s a funny dude. Wish I could have had it on camera to see exactly what was going on underneath me! It did feel sort of amazing… but when you are trying to calm them down…meanwhile going…ummm wow this feels interesting…is this what I think it could be? sort of defeats the purpose of settling down a spooky horse… Ha!

Cheers and good riding, everyone!

[Lunabear1988]

I think my post was misunderstood or lost with others posting. A Schoolmaster would be great. But I’m talking finding dressage trainers that have anything to ride in lessons at all and are knowledgeable. That’s hard around here to find. There is two that have horses but are very amateur types then themselves with all the riders staying around training level forever. Not want I’m looking for!

I was more just curious why the difference between dressage and Hunter jumpers regarding school horses. Many valid and true points posted here. ​​​​​​

[Lunabear1988]

@emipou @netg you guys are funny and sweet. Actually am planning on California trip sometime next year and have good friends in Arizona that I really should visit

[Lucassb]

If you check out the H/J forum, you will find that lesson horses are less common in that discipline than they used to be as well. It is mostly about economics; we all know that there is less and less affordable land for barns, etc. Not news, for sure.

For H/J land, as pointed out earlier, what makes lesson horses a better economic decision is the acceptability of group lessons. Having the ability to generate lesson income from 4-5-6 horses per hour is a much more attractive proposition for trainers than it would be in a private lesson scenario, particularly when you consider that most barns have very limited hours when lessons can be offered to the majority of clients (ie, kids who take weekday lessons after school or adults who can lesson after work, perhaps with the addition of weekend lessons when the trainer is not away showing.)

[ThreeFigs]

OP, tell us again at what level you are currently riding, or to what level you advanced before coming to the Great Dressage Wasteland of Colorado?

[Belowthesalt]

@emipou

yesyes!! When are you coming out to california?

I’m in California. SF Bay Area. Where are you? LOL

[emipou]

@Belowthesalt

I’m in California. SF Bay Area. Where are you? LOL

So far north! I’m on the other side. Well if you can find a way to San Diego this weekend, come audit We even have a hotel room available.